Life/Career Direction?

Basically I think I know the answer deep down inside me, but none the less I would appreciate some commments and discussion.

To under stand my predicament a quick summary of my life is. When I was 12 I began investing in shares (I had read business news/mags prob since I was 10). When I was 16 I owned and ran my own retail business for two and a half years. I then moved into Real Estate as a sales agent (I enjoy selling/putting deals together) before being offered a job with a property developer which I accepted. As part of this I had to do a uni course which I of course pay for. Currently I work full time and study full time via correspondence at night and on the weekend. I am currently about 50% through my course.

I currently "like" my job, but for numerous reasons I dont have a "passion" for it. I am constantly drawn to the stockmarket, whether trading/investing my self or even going as far as looking at jobs online. Basically that is the industry I am ment to work in, i have never lost my passion or love for the stock market and investing.

The problem however is I am halfway through a Uni degee (property) and am kinda stuck, if I wanted to change industries I dont/wont have the correct degree. Furthermore I couldnt go back to getting 30k pa in some junior role (for various reason), I have done the sums and at the very best I could drop down to 40-45k (although it would be hard I would manage).

Has anyone else faced this? any comments?

P.S. I live in Sydney (if that makes a difference)

investorpaul said:

Basically I think I know the answer deep down inside me, but none the less I would appreciate some commments and discussion.

To under stand my predicament a quick summary of my life is. When I was 12 I began investing in shares (I had read business news/mags prob since I was 10). When I was 16 I owned and ran my own retail business for two and a half years. I then moved into Real Estate as a sales agent (I enjoy selling/putting deals together) before being offered a job with a property developer which I accepted. As part of this I had to do a uni course which I of course pay for. Currently I work full time and study full time via correspondence at night and on the weekend. I am currently about 50% through my course.

I currently "like" my job, but for numerous reasons I dont have a "passion" for it. I am constantly drawn to the stockmarket, whether trading/investing my self or even going as far as looking at jobs online. Basically that is the industry I am ment to work in, i have never lost my passion or love for the stock market and investing.

The problem however is I am halfway through a Uni degee (property) and am kinda stuck, if I wanted to change industries I dont/wont have the correct degree. Furthermore I couldnt go back to getting 30k pa in some junior role (for various reason), I have done the sums and at the very best I could drop down to 40-45k (although it would be hard I would manage).

Has anyone else faced this? any comments?

P.S. I live in Sydney (if that makes a difference)

Click to expand...

take a long holiday, 6 months minimum

investorpaul said:

Basically I think I know the answer deep down inside me, but none the less I would appreciate some commments and discussion.

To under stand my predicament a quick summary of my life is. When I was 12 I began investing in shares (I had read business news/mags prob since I was 10). When I was 16 I owned and ran my own retail business for two and a half years. I then moved into Real Estate as a sales agent (I enjoy selling/putting deals together) before being offered a job with a property developer which I accepted. As part of this I had to do a uni course which I of course pay for. Currently I work full time and study full time via correspondence at night and on the weekend. I am currently about 50% through my course.

I currently "like" my job, but for numerous reasons I dont have a "passion" for it. I am constantly drawn to the stockmarket, whether trading/investing my self or even going as far as looking at jobs online. Basically that is the industry I am ment to work in, i have never lost my passion or love for the stock market and investing.

The problem however is I am halfway through a Uni degee (property) and am kinda stuck, if I wanted to change industries I dont/wont have the correct degree. Furthermore I couldnt go back to getting 30k pa in some junior role (for various reason), I have done the sums and at the very best I could drop down to 40-45k (although it would be hard I would manage).

Has anyone else faced this? any comments?

P.S. I live in Sydney (if that makes a difference)

Click to expand...

I think the best thing could be to define exactly what job you would like instead of saying you like stock markets and investing. e.g. work in a fund, become a trader etc. Then your goals will be more clearer to attain.

There are stock market related jobs that are quite frankly BORING
lol and you may find switching into the field a mistake. I know many folks who switched to one of the big boys (wont name it here) expecting to learn all the secrets and methods of the share market, only to be left with mundane jobs.

I am guessing you feel you need some more professional direction/mentoring in terms of stock trading?

Do you have a life goal and a plan to get there?

Is trading/investing something you enjoy doing or does it stress you out?

You have to way up the 'means to an end' argument of whether you put up with something for a short time if it means you will be happy for a longer time? I have a day job that fit's in well with trading/investing, so the option of having another skill set ie real estate would be good to have as a backstop?

Is another option to keep doing what your doing until you are trading well enough that you wont need anyone to give you a job, i.e. your trading is providing your income and more? That way you will have many options.

Uncle Festivus said:

Do you have a life goal and a plan to get there?

Is trading/investing something you enjoy doing or does it stress you out?

having another skill set ie real estate would be good to have as a backstop?

Click to expand...

Yes i enjoy trading/investing. It doesnt stress me out I really enjoy the challenge of trading/identifying opportunities/etc. Basically I love it.

I also agree that seeing as i am a fair way into my degree it would be good to have it as a back stop.

Is another option to keep doing what your doing until you are trading well enough that you wont need anyone to give you a job, i.e. your trading is providing your income and more? That way you will have many options.

Click to expand...

I was trading intra day (uk market at night) but now aim for trades over a couple of days/weeks/months. Which i can manage during the day, whilst at work. I hope to one day live off trading but I also want to work in the industry.

I think the best thing could be to define exactly what job you would like instead of saying you like stock markets and investing. e.g. work in a fund, become a trader etc. Then your goals will be more clearer to attain.

Click to expand...

I would ultimately like to be a trader

investorpaul said:

I would ultimately like to be a trader

Click to expand...

You don't have to have a degree in Commerce/related field if this is your goal, maybe except for derivatives such as options, swaps etc.

investorpaul said:

I live in Sydney (if that makes a difference)

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It does actually, it's darn expensive!

investorpaul said:

I would ultimately like to be a trader

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I recently bought a book called "Do what you love, the money will follow", by Marsha Sinetar. I haven't read it yet, but from the Forward, it seems a common sense approach to doing what you want and making a living from it. I have always believed in this philosophy.

1. You say you like sharetrading. Is it possible to stay at your current job, save enough for a starting capital and start to develop your skills with a view to trading full time at some stage?

2. Changing degrees, but this will add time to your career.

3. Dropping the degree and taking on a second job/concentrating at your current job, accelerating your savings so that you can eventually trade full time?

In my experience, there is always a changeover period in any job/career transition. The other piece of advice i can offer you is to be financially stable with some savings if you intend on changing careers.

investorpaul said:

Basically I think I know the answer deep down inside me, but none the less I would appreciate some commments and discussion.

To under stand my predicament a quick summary of my life is. When I was 12 I began investing in shares (I had read business news/mags prob since I was 10). When I was 16 I owned and ran my own retail business for two and a half years. I then moved into Real Estate as a sales agent (I enjoy selling/putting deals together) before being offered a job with a property developer which I accepted. As part of this I had to do a uni course which I of course pay for. Currently I work full time and study full time via correspondence at night and on the weekend. I am currently about 50% through my course.

I currently "like" my job, but for numerous reasons I dont have a "passion" for it. I am constantly drawn to the stockmarket, whether trading/investing my self or even going as far as looking at jobs online. Basically that is the industry I am ment to work in, i have never lost my passion or love for the stock market and investing.

The problem however is I am halfway through a Uni degee (property) and am kinda stuck, if I wanted to change industries I dont/wont have the correct degree. Furthermore I couldnt go back to getting 30k pa in some junior role (for various reason), I have done the sums and at the very best I could drop down to 40-45k (although it would be hard I would manage).

Has anyone else faced this? any comments?

P.S. I live in Sydney (if that makes a difference)

Click to expand...

You could aim to be self-sufficient.

And it is understand - one word.

I have faced a similar dilema and I am somewhat further down the track re career change.I had my own business for 20years liked the challenges but never got out of it what I should have for all the work I put in and was always struggling.I wound the business up a few months ago and decided to study trading and trade full time which was exciting although I had little capital to start with however because I had a family I decided that this was unfair on them so I am working 3.5 days per week and Studying/Trading the rest of the time which seems a good balance atm.I would make the following observations: If you really have a passion for Trading and make it your unequivical goal then your path will become clearer i.e. your current job is only for basic expenses and to provide trading capital, you may cut down the hours of your existing job to accomodate more trading,if your uni course is taking time and money from your goal then you may have to end it and although it is hard balancing a job and trading at least as you are hedging your bets if the trading doesn't suit you.Also if you decide that trading is your passion the amount of money that you are making for a few years should not be that important just my

Good afternoon.
To understand your situation, and therefore make a balanced comment, as to a suggested direction.......

first, what is the course you are doing,
"study full time via correspondence at night and on the weekend"

AND
the cost including travel and books per year,
then the total cost will be $ .....

Kind regards,
UB

Investorpaul

It is critical that a man loves his work!

Cheers

dutchie

Uncle Barry said:

Good afternoon.
To understand your situation, and therefore make a balanced comment, as to a suggested direction.......

first, what is the course you are doing,
"study full time via correspondence at night and on the weekend"

AND
the cost including travel and books per year,
then the total cost will be $ .....

Kind regards,
UB

Click to expand...

I study a Bachelor of Property.

Full time study is 4 units per term (3 year course).

I study the full four units each term whilst also working 5 days a week (8am to 6pm). I then come home and complete my uni work and also do it on the weekend.

I also study extra units over the christmas break to try and complete the course quicker, I did two extra units last christmas.

Each unit is about $800-$1.2k from memory. I did 10 units last year and I am doing 11 units this year. (say $8k to be conservative, I will check my payment records later cause even that sounds alot )

I try and buy my books second hand but some times I have to buy new ones. Last year I spent about $800 to $1k on books. I tried to buy second hand where I could but it wasnt always possible. A few subjects required 2 or 3 books which increased the cost.

Aussiest said:

It does actually, it's darn expensive!

1. You say you like sharetrading. Is it possible to stay at your current job, save enough for a starting capital and start to develop your skills with a view to trading full time at some stage?

Click to expand...

If I sold my long term stocks and put together my various savings I would have enough cash to trade full time.

At this stage though I am only trading a very very small account in comparison to gain further experience when trading shorter time frames. As you mention the ideal situation would be to continue to do this whilst working, its just hard to fit in enough screen time.

Good evening Paul.
Where do you get the time to do anything ?
As your week must be eaten up with work and study.

And then to think your learning about the markets and its ways, where could you ever get the time ?

As the market is constantly moveing changes direction and its ways are like a living creature thats on the run all the time.

When you think you know or understand it and its ways, it backs into an area and stops, then comes out where it shouldn't and breaks and makes new rules along the way.

Therefore how can you be fair to yourself when your so short of time to do anything properly. Can you learn the ways of the wild creature when your life is consumed by study and a 9 to 5 job ?

If you can, good on you, but are you really only kidding yourself and living a dream?

Something to fuel your thoughts,
I know a chap without any degree in this or that, that told me years ago, when you want the best, just employ them and when they are finished, let them go, because you cannot be good at everything.

Are you in control of your mind yet ?
As to turn a few dollars in the market 50% or more of the success is due to mind control.
You must be in charge of your mind !
You must be able to over come, the 3 factors that run everybodies mind, fear, greed and denial.
Are you in charge of your mind or can you control you mind ?

I think I am most times but I've only been at this business for about 20 or so years and have learn the hard way in dollars. I still lose sometimes because of fear, fear I didn't buy early enough, mainly, greed..... it beats me almost everytime, I try for the last cent, denial, I have this under control as denial is a factor that includes ego, and my mind does not feel the need for a ego boost.

Anybody who thinks they are in total control are hidding behind the denial factor.

The cost of the next year or so of study, could be about 10k.

Would it be better if.

You sat back and spread this year out into 3 or 4 years and spent your time learning to understand the ways of the market.
The cost, spend the difference in the market, maybe, maybe NOT.

Or myself, I would not spend one cent in the market !
I would spend the time modelling the ways of the market, try and learn ONE STOCK, and paper trade.

The books are nice, but, books are written AFTER the event, paper trade in real time, and read books ONLY if you have nothing else to do.

In this way you will become street smart.

This way, I would have money in the Bank or where ever, and spend my time learning, getting ready so to speak.
A degree in street smart market business, be it long term, short term or if your brave, day trading.

Then to confuse you...( I trust not )
Have you asked yourself, why did I start this degree ?
Have the conditions changed, if they haven't then complete the eduction.

OR, think what use will this degree be to me when I am 30, 40 or 50 years old ?
Can I make money with it in the future ?

Trust I haven't confuse and only have added depth to your thinking and understanding,
Kindest regards
UB

waza1960 said:

I am working 3.5 days per week and Studying/Trading the rest of the time which seems a good balance atm.

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This is a great idea and something i should have mentioned in my first post.

Paul, once you feel confident in your trading abilities, why don't you think about getting a part-time job outside of trading hours? I don't know which markets you intend on trading, but there are plenty of jobs outside of business hours such as in hospitality & retail (weekend work, late nights). I know the latter is scuzzy, but it's a means to an end right?

In regards to the issue of your current job interfering with screen time, i am not sure what to suggest, except what i have suggested above, but perhaps in 12 months time when you have saved more capital. In other words, you may have to wait to increase your screen time, depending on the outcome of your decisions regarding university, savings and your current job.

University courses are expensive and it is worth doing a cost-benefit analysis in regards to the cash you would be investing. Could you be adding this cash to your trading account? You could also consider studying in the finance industry once you have established your trading and have been doing it a little more seriously.

You don't have to do everything at once, in fact, you shouldn't. If i were you, i would concentrate on defining my goals with trading - set a deadline by which you would like to be doing it and set some 'savings' goals. You could then take it from there.

Uncle Barry said:

Good evening Paul.
Where do you get the time to do anything ?

And then to think your learning about the markets and its ways, where could you ever get the time ?

Click to expand...

I dont know but I do find the time, I also play soccer and am getting married next year, I enjoy being on the go all the time and everything always gets done.

I believe I have a good understanding of the markets and I know about the various technical signals/patterns/etc (i have been reading/investing for a relatively long time and continue to do so) so i dont think I need additional time to learn the basics I just need screen time implementing my trading techniques and actually trading.

If you can, good on you, but are you really only kidding yourself and living a dream?

Click to expand...

I believe it can be done, I have worked 7 days (either work or a combination of work/study) for a while now and I just prioritise my tasks. I am not burnt out and i enjoy "working hard"

Have you asked yourself, why did I start this degree ?
Have the conditions changed, if they haven't then complete the eduction.

OR, think what use will this degree be to me when I am 30, 40 or 50 years old ?
Can I make money with it in the future ?

Click to expand...

The conditions have changed and without going into detail it is a combination of the company I work for and also my own realisation that I am in the wrong industry.

I have no doubt I could make money in either property or shares but my heart is only in shares.

Aussiest said:

Paul, once you feel confident in your trading abilities, why don't you think about getting a part-time job outside of trading hours?

In regards to the issue of your current job interfering with screen time, i am not sure what to suggest, except what i have suggested above, but perhaps in 12 months time when you have saved more capital.

University courses are expensive and it is worth doing a cost-benefit analysis in regards to the cash you would be investing. Could you be adding this cash to your trading account?

Click to expand...

I know deep down that I cannot stay in my job forever, regardless of the action I take.

I also agree that 12 months is the realistic time frame before I can move into a more full time trading role. I will continue to do what I can in the mean time.

given the time and effort I have put into my uni course I cannot see myself giving it up, although that extra 10k would be a huge help in establishing a more sustantial trading account. But as one of my previous posts said I do have access to substantially more money if and when i chose to use it for trading.

Thanks for all your suggesstions so far, it has been good to discuss things

investorpaul said:

Yes i enjoy trading/investing. It doesnt stress me out I really enjoy the challenge of trading/identifying opportunities/etc. Basically I love it.
s in te indu
I was trading intra day (uk market at night) but now aim for trades over a couple of days/weeks/months. Which i can manage during the day, whilst at work. I hope to one day live off trading but I also want to work in the industry.



I would ultimately like to be a trader

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OK Paul I've highlighted two sections in the above.

1) Why do you want to work in the industry? I'm not sure you have a clear understanding of the types of jobs in the industry or the people that inhabit it, so before you decide to throw your current path away for a pasture that may look greener and isn't... go do some work experience in the industry. If you like feel free to PM me and I will discuss some of the good and bad points.

2) Since your ultimate aim would appear to be a trader.... do you think a job in the industry helps or hinders your ultimate goal?


cheers

Sir O

This is the same advice I give to all the youngsters at my work....

Quit your job.

Backpack through Europe, Asia, Africa & the Americas.

Take lots of drugs. (alcohol, tobacco or whatever...)

After a year of that you'll see everything in a different light.