Leaving Australia (again)

[wayneL]

After this shemozzle of the covid lockdowns and now the passing of the digital identity bill, Mrs and I have decided to get the f*** out of here.

Australia is a really great place in many ways but in our opinion that is totally contingent upon Millsian liberties. There are not enough attractions to live here under a digital tyrrany and authoritarian police state.

This is not the country that my parents, along with me and my sibling, immigrated to in the 1970s. Apart from the grating accent, almost nothing is the same.

Yes we do realise that such tyrannies are probably going to be implemented almost everywhere, but our question to ourselves is where in the world could we be prepared to live under such tyrannies... And as I mentioned in another thread, it is a question of regions rather than nations.

There is nowhere in Australia where we would prepare to live under those circumstances.

Unfortunately we are somewhat constrained by being monolingual... Well just a little bit of terrible Spanish and German (and some relapsed Swahili and "Sweizerdeutch" in the Mrs).

So, looking for someplace where we can grow veggies and raise chickens without worrying about drought, or being huddled around a single candle, or fending off radicalized hordes, to live out our dotage.

 

[Caveman]

Have you considered Gidgegannup?

 

[SirRumpole]

I think you are being over sensitive Wayne, but it's your choice and good luck to you.

I can't really think of any place I'd rather live, warts and all. I think you are looking for a paradise that doesn't exist, but if you find it let us know.

Bahamas perhaps, no tax as long as you are rich enough.

Digital ID legislation​

The Digital ID Bill 2024, together with the Digital ID (Transitional and Consequential Provisions) Bill 2024, has passed Parliament.
These Bills will provide individuals with secure, convenient, voluntary and inclusive ways to verify their identity for use in online transactions with government and businesses.
The Digital ID Bill 2024 will:

• legislate and strengthen a voluntary Accreditation Scheme for digital ID service providers that wish to demonstrate compliance with best practice privacy, security, proofing and authentication standards
• legislate and enable expansion of the Australian Government Digital ID System for use by the Commonwealth, state and territory governments and eventually private sector organisations
• embed strong privacy and consumer safeguards, in addition to the Privacy Act to ensure users are protected
• strengthen governance arrangements for the Accreditation Scheme and the Australian Government Digital ID System, including by establishing the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission as the Digital ID Regulator, and expanding the role of the Information Commissioner to regulate privacy protections for digital IDs.

 

[wayneL]

I think you are being over sensitive Wayne, but it's your choice and good luck to you.

I can't really think of any place I'd rather live, warts and all. I think you are looking for a paradise that doesn't exist, but if you find it let us know.

Bahamas perhaps, no tax as long as you are rich enough.

Digital ID legislation​

The Digital ID Bill 2024, together with the Digital ID (Transitional and Consequential Provisions) Bill 2024, has passed Parliament.
These Bills will provide individuals with secure, convenient, voluntary and inclusive ways to verify their identity for use in online transactions with government and businesses.
The Digital ID Bill 2024 will:

• legislate and strengthen a voluntary Accreditation Scheme for digital ID service providers that wish to demonstrate compliance with best practice privacy, security, proofing and authentication standards
• legislate and enable expansion of the Australian Government Digital ID System for use by the Commonwealth, state and territory governments and eventually private sector organisations
• embed strong privacy and consumer safeguards, in addition to the Privacy Act to ensure users are protected
• strengthen governance arrangements for the Accreditation Scheme and the Australian Government Digital ID System, including by establishing the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission as the Digital ID Regulator, and expanding the role of the Information Commissioner to regulate privacy protections for digital IDs.

No there is no Paradise. But there are pros and cons. The encroaching authoritarian totalitarianism has tipped Australia in to the cons column for us.

 

[wayneL]

No there is no Paradise. But there are pros and cons. The encroaching authoritarian totalitarianism has tipped Australia in to the cons column for us.

Yes this is also happening everywhere where we might be able to move to, it is a matter of evaluating the pros considering these cons, and where people might eventually start fighting back against this. It's not the US it's not Canada, there are other places I would really like to investigate but language barrier might be a problem. However our overarching concern is where we might be culturally more at home.

As for the digital ID being voluntary, yeah just like the covid jabs were voluntary.... Just so long as you didn't want to work for a company, go to a pub or even buy a six-pack at the damned bottle shop.

Additionally the framework is now in place to make it even more onerous and even to introduce a Chinese style social credit system.

There's one thing sure about government, they will always tighten the screws.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes this is also happening everywhere where we might be able to move to, it is a matter of evaluating the pros considering these cons, and where people might eventually start fighting back against this. It's not the US it's not Canada, there are other places I would really like to investigate but language barrier might be a problem. However our overarching concern is where we might be culturally more at home.

As for the digital ID being voluntary, yeah just like the covid jabs were voluntary.... Just so long as you didn't want to work for a company, go to a pub or even buy a six-pack at the damned bottle shop.

Additionally the framework is now in place to make it even more onerous and even to introduce a Chinese style social credit system.

There's one thing sure about government, they will always tighten the screws.

Wayne, the World Government is coming. Any country not conforming will be decimated by tariffs , embargoes and sanctions. There is no escape, you can either be a rich conformist or free and poor.

 

[wayneL]

Wayne, the World Government is coming. Any country not conforming will be decimated by tariffs , embargoes and sanctions. There is no escape, you can either be a rich conformist or free and poor.

It does seems to be a fait accompli and we have prepared ourselves for that eventuality, as detailed above.... But can live in hope that people do wake up en masse.

But to repeat my point above, receiving that this is all inevitable, the question becomes which culture would I be most happy to live in.

I hope nobody takes offense at what follows, but this came across my timeline and kind of encapsulates my feelings about this country in the context of what we are talking about:

"Australian culture has disappeared. It’s been subsumed by this grey, globalist sludge.

The free land of the fun-loving larrikin is a relic of the past.

Every shop has been replaced by some international brand selling cheap products manufactured in China or India.

We’re afraid to fly our own flag because the people who have moved here call it racist.

But it represents the culture that built Australia into a nation that attracts people from all over the world.

Why move here if all you want to do is tear it down?

But maybe that’s the aim: envy is a powerful motivator.

And they say that anyone can become Australian if they move here and adopt the culture.

That’s a difficult proposition to accept when the culture has been decimated.

What ‘culture’ are these new arrivals adopting, exactly?

There is no culture. Just a blank slate of nothingness.

It’s the perfect canvas for the government to imprint its own image on us, to tell us what our culture is and what our values are.

And that’s what is happening.

Government dictate is that Australian culture is one that values censorship, obedience, compliance, dobbing on your neighbour, paying taxes, listening to the controlled media, not questioning authority."

Elsewhere, there is a sense of history and culture (on many different levels) which is missing here, and these are things that are important to us.

So if we are forced to conform, at least there are these other things which we find fulfilling.

 

[SirRumpole]

It does seems to be a fait accompli and we have prepared ourselves for that eventuality, as detailed above.... But can live in hope that people do wake up en masse.

But to repeat my point above, receiving that this is all inevitable, the question becomes which culture would I be most happy to live in.

I hope nobody takes offense at what follows, but this came across my timeline and kind of encapsulates my feelings about this country in the context of what we are talking about:

"Australian culture has disappeared. It’s been subsumed by this grey, globalist sludge.

The free land of the fun-loving larrikin is a relic of the past.

Every shop has been replaced by some international brand selling cheap products manufactured in China or India.

We’re afraid to fly our own flag because the people who have moved here call it racist.

But it represents the culture that built Australia into a nation that attracts people from all over the world.

Why move here if all you want to do is tear it down?

But maybe that’s the aim: envy is a powerful motivator.

And they say that anyone can become Australian if they move here and adopt the culture.

That’s a difficult proposition to accept when the culture has been decimated.

What ‘culture’ are these new arrivals adopting, exactly?

There is no culture. Just a blank slate of nothingness.

It’s the perfect canvas for the government to imprint its own image on us, to tell us what our culture is and what our values are.

And that’s what is happening.

Government dictate is that Australian culture is one that values censorship, obedience, compliance, dobbing on your neighbour, paying taxes, listening to the controlled media, not questioning authority."

Elsewhere, there is a sense of history and culture (on many different levels) which is missing here, and these are things that are important to us.

So if we are forced to conform, at least there are these other things which we find fulfilling.

Interesting points. I have to agree with a lot of it.


First Nations people who have done little to develop the country get treated with kid gloves while they run rampant against hard working people, destroying their property and threatening their lives.


A certain religion is gaining more strength by weight of numbers, exploiting our welfare systems, contributing little to the economy and educating their children in their old ways which is to destroy the infidels and have no respect for Western culture.

But, I guess the difference between you and me is that I was born here and have an emotional attachment to the place, it would be hard to find an "Aussie culture" anywhere else.

I "hope" that someone in power might see the danger, govern with pragmatism not political correctness and not be afraid to tell the truth even if it offends someone, before it's too late.

Still waiting, no-one in sight yet.

 

[wayneL]

BTW. I do welcome challenges to my thinking. I may argue, but certainly listening to points made.

 

[TimeISmoney]

BTW. I do welcome challenges to my thinking. I may argue, but certainly listening to points made.

I reckon a lot of people will resent any type of big change, it's only the young and city slickers that are brainwashed.

 

[qldfrog]

Interesting points. I have to agree with a lot of it.


First Nations people who have done little to develop the country get treated with kid gloves while they run rampant against hard working people, destroying their property and threatening their lives.


A certain religion is gaining more strength by weight of numbers, exploiting our welfare systems, contributing little to the economy and educating their children in their old ways which is to destroy the infidels and have no respect for Western culture.

But, I guess the difference between you and me is that I was born here and have an emotional attachment to the place, it would be hard to find an "Aussie culture" anywhere else.

I "hope" that someone in power might see the danger, govern with pragmatism not political correctness and not be afraid to tell the truth even if it offends someone, before it's too late.

Still waiting, no-one in sight yet.

I see your point Mr @SirRumpole and if I was born here, would stay.
This is no mystery that I have the same feeling as mr Wayne and looking for an exit,
Is any O/S place paradise? no
but would i feel better in some of these other places..yes;
If you remember well, as soon as our Golden prison was open after the covid scam, we were out and investigating Central America.
Since then, we have taken action, sadly selling the farm..to get out..is taking longer than expected..but the plan is still there, just hoping we will have time to F O.
Why should i go to a central america place: more individual freedom, a more joyful culture where people of all level laugh, dance and play..too loud music..instead of getting **** face on beer and AFL/cricket..I know what i prefer..simpler..healthier
Add new challenges: new language ,history food, fauna and flora....I like challenges
I do not see much left of the Aussie culture I discovered 30y ago:
all the tribal **** is here, us and them on color, sex, wealth and while there is corruption in the americas, it is at a different level here and the total cost would be hugely less there than it is here now with my taxes for the OG, solar and wind farms, next electricity discount, jet setting of our lords etc.

It can be a shamble there, many people are uneducated , as sheep as here..but i can excuse them, less when people are supposedly educated and go for a Pfizer booster in 2024.
But the Covid lockdown, travel ban and majority of Australian reactions was the drop too much for me.
Shutting de facto my business.
If I do not feel Aussie anymore, better be a gringo in a cheaper less taxed more lively place.
When back from China, I told friends that Chineses had more day to day freedom than Australians..and that was before Covid..
No one believed me..Aussies need to travel more, and yes the grass is greener on the other side.
Always but our side of the fence is genuinely getting drier and more yellow by the day.
Mr SirRumpole arguments were the same I heard when I left France some 30y ago.
I do not have any doubt this was the right move then, and anyone would agree now looking at facts, my worst predictions happened decade earlier.
So am I too old to jump..again..or will this give me a second life?
I am less free now, the better half wants to stay within reach of the son, who is a perfect aussie..for the best and the worst so a full break seems difficult..but escape at least most of the year is a matter of a RE signature away

 

[SirRumpole]

I see your point Mr @SirRumpole and if I was born here, would stay.
This is no mystery that I have the same feeling as mr Wayne and looking for an exit,
Is any O/S place paradise? no
but would i feel better in some of these other places..yes;
If you remember well, as soon as our Golden prison was open after the covid scam, we were out and investigating Central America.
Since then, we have taken action, sadly selling the farm..to get out..is taking longer than expected..but the plan is still there, just hoping we will have time to F O.
Why should i go to a central america place: more individual freedom, a more joyful culture where people of all level laugh, dance and play..too loud music..instead of getting **** face on beer and AFL/cricket..I know what i prefer..simpler..healthier
Add new challenges: new language ,history food, fauna and flora....I like challenges
I do not see much left of the Aussie culture I discovered 30y ago:
all the tribal **** is here, us and them on color, sex, wealth and while there is corruption in the americas, it is at a different level here and the total cost would be hugely less there than it is here now with my taxes for the OG, solar and wind farms, next electricity discount, jet setting of our lords etc.

It can be a shamble there, many people are uneducated , as sheep as here..but i can excuse them, less when people are supposedly educated and go for a Pfizer booster in 2024.
But the Covid lockdown, travel ban and majority of Australian reactions was the drop too much for me.
Shutting de facto my business.
If I do not feel Aussie anymore, better be a gringo in a cheaper less taxed more lively place.
When back from China, I told friends that Chineses had more day to day freedom than Australians..and that was before Covid..
No one believed me..Aussies need to travel more, and yes the grass is greener on the other side.
Always but our side of the fence is genuinely getting drier and more yellow by the day.
Mr SirRumpole arguments were the same I heard when I left France some 30y ago.
I do not have any doubt this was the right move then, and anyone would agree now looking at facts, my worst predictions happened decade earlier.
So am I too old to jump..again..or will this give me a second life?
I am less free now, the better half wants to stay within reach of the son, who is a perfect aussie..for the best and the worst so a full break seems difficult..but escape at least most of the year is a matter of a RE signature away

Interesting.

A lot of Aussie expats in Thailand, Malaysia, Phillippines, Bali (too much of a tourist trap), Singapore. Cheaper, maybe more freedom I don't know. Life is cheap, but if you need quality health care you can always come back and get it on Medicare.

If you can stand the humidity that is.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Central America can be quite dangerous for a gringo, a beautiful place for a holiday but it's a very raw place for living standards.

 

[The Triangle]

After this shemozzle of the covid lockdowns and now the passing of the digital identity bill, Mrs and I have decided to get the f*** out of here.

Australia is a really great place in many ways but in our opinion that is totally contingent upon Millsian liberties. There are not enough attractions to live here under a digital tyrrany and authoritarian police state.

This is not the country that my parents, along with me and my sibling, immigrated to in the 1970s. Apart from the grating accent, almost nothing is the same.

Yes we do realise that such tyrannies are probably going to be implemented almost everywhere, but our question to ourselves is where in the world could we be prepared to live under such tyrannies... And as I mentioned in another thread, it is a question of regions rather than nations.

There is nowhere in Australia where we would prepare to live under those circumstances.

Unfortunately we are somewhat constrained by being monolingual... Well just a little bit of terrible Spanish and German (and some relapsed Swahili and "Sweizerdeutch" in the Mrs).

So, looking for someplace where we can grow veggies and raise chickens without worrying about drought, or being huddled around a single candle, or fending off radicalized hordes, to live out our dotage.

If this video doesn't bring back your Aussie faith than nothing will. Try northern Thailand. You can get a cheap retirement visa there.

 

[The Triangle]

After this shemozzle of the covid lockdowns and now the passing of the digital identity bill, Mrs and I have decided to get the f*** out of here.

Australia is a really great place in many ways but in our opinion that is totally contingent upon Millsian liberties. There are not enough attractions to live here under a digital tyrrany and authoritarian police state.

This is not the country that my parents, along with me and my sibling, immigrated to in the 1970s. Apart from the grating accent, almost nothing is the same.

Yes we do realise that such tyrannies are probably going to be implemented almost everywhere, but our question to ourselves is where in the world could we be prepared to live under such tyrannies... And as I mentioned in another thread, it is a question of regions rather than nations.

There is nowhere in Australia where we would prepare to live under those circumstances.

Unfortunately we are somewhat constrained by being monolingual... Well just a little bit of terrible Spanish and German (and some relapsed Swahili and "Sweizerdeutch" in the Mrs).

So, looking for someplace where we can grow veggies and raise chickens without worrying about drought, or being huddled around a single candle, or fending off radicalized hordes, to live out our dotage.

And then this one should reinspire you to leave again.

 

[IFocus]

Qldfrog,
I have travelled extensively in Mexico, Central and South America all over land with the poor and as much as I loved the various countries, the people and the language all I can say is good luck all is not what it seems.

 

[qldfrog]

Interesting.

A lot of Aussie expats in Thailand, Malaysia, Phillippines, Bali (too much of a tourist trap), Singapore. Cheaper, maybe more freedom I don't know. Life is cheap, but if you need quality health care you can always come back and get it on Medicare.

If you can stand the humidity that is.

The " and come back here to be treated on Medicare" argument is exactly the same thrown at all expats in France .
I am not kidding.
Guess how many time I flew to France for that benefit...
Do you genuinely believe that?
How much critical treatment is available for cheaper in Australia?
Ohh you mean using your private health insurance that you pay $4 K a year..well..pay the same amount there..not in the US of course..and you will get better treatment or as good in many places.
We are not talking moving to Niger here.
And humidity: well I leave in Qld and try to get less by moving out

 

[SirRumpole]

The " and come back here to be treated on Medicare" argument is exactly the same thrown at all expats in France .
I am not kidding.
Guess how many time I flew to France for that benefit...
Do you genuinely believe that?
How much critical treatment is available for cheaper in Australia?
Ohh you mean using your private health insurance that you pay $4 K a year..well..pay the same amount there..not in the US of course..and you will get better treatment or as good in many places.
We are not talking moving to Niger here.
And humidity: well I leave in Qld and try to get less by moving out

Don't know froggy. How many medical procedures have you h ad in Asian countries?

Maybd they are good there, I would guess you would pay a premium though.

 

[qldfrog]

Don't know froggy. How many medical procedures have you h ad in Asian countries?

Maybd they are good there, I would guess you would pay a premium though.

Central America for me...
We have a lot of US and Canadian medical refugees moving due to medical costs
Obviously, I would not dream to go into the french medical system debacle as I am currently witnessing first hand with an in-law having the usual there horror misdiagnosed mistreated icu stay and heading to the coffin
Our system is so good in Aus that the last time I was meeting a 70y old by a friend place last month he was on clutches and going thru a 2y waiting list to have new knees done.
Not critical obviously...
My major medical event here was treated thru private hospital via own private insurance, and I was still $3k out of pocket 15y ago
That $3k would have paid the whole procedure in a thai clinic then.
So no, a lot of second tier countries have as good medical system if not better than the ex first world nations.
Yes it has a cost there but here too
If you willingly move away from Australia, you do it with your thinking cap:
Health, safety and stability, language and culture, taxes and costs,personal liberties,stability, climate,infrastructure, travel convenience and future economics as well as risk from conflict.
Based on age, own priorities, family, etc you do the spreadsheet.
There is a huge cost $ and emotional to uprooting yourself, so this is not an easy choice
I have a bloody strong experience there
There is no easy hidden paradise , and paradise is different for everyone.
Up to 15y ago, a remote farmlet here would have done the job, Australia till Covid was a dream come true for me vs Europe ,but not with the future we are digging ourselves in, and this has been a continuous slow descent starting to accelerate...
In a way, I am happy not having been born here as my rage and anger at this self destruction would be intense but that will make jumping ship slightly easier
Good old days....

 

[SirRumpole]

Central America for me...
We have a lot of US and Canadian medical refugees moving due to medical costs
Obviously, I would not dream to go into the french medical system debacle as I am currently witnessing first hand with an in-law having the usual there horror misdiagnosed mistreated icu stay and heading to the coffin
Our system is so good in Aus that the last time I was meeting a 70y old by a friend place last month he was on clutches and going thru a 2y waiting list to have new knees done.
Not critical obviously...
My major medical event here was treated thru private hospital via own private insurance, and I was still $3k out of pocket 15y ago
That $3k would have paid the whole procedure in a thai clinic then.
So no, a lot of second tier countries have as good medical system if not better than the ex first world nations.
Yes it has a cost there but here too
If you willingly move away from Australia, you do it with your thinking cap:
Health, safety and stability, language and culture, taxes and costs,personal liberties,stability, climate,infrastructure, travel convenience and future economics as well as risk from conflict.
Based on age, own priorities, family, etc you do the spreadsheet.
There is a huge cost $ and emotional to uprooting yourself, so this is not an easy choice
I have a bloody strong experience there
There is no easy hidden paradise , and paradise is different for everyone.
Up to 15y ago, a remote farmlet here would have done the job, Australia till Covid was a dream come true for me vs Europe ,but not with the future we are digging ourselves in, and this has been a continuous slow descent starting to accelerate...
In a way, I am happy not having been born here as my rage and anger at this self destruction would be intense but that will make jumping ship slightly easier
Good old days....

Covid is gone now, and it's not something you can blame Labor for either.