Labor's carbon tax lie

[sptrawler]

In all seriousness and not wanting to start a state versus state war, I think that WA is being profoundly dumb when it comes to energy.

What's going to happen a not long from now when ALL the coal and gas has been locked up under export contracts and there's literally none available for local use? Then 30 years later when the whole lot is physically gone and production ceases?

What is the long term plan for WA? With the fuel being shipped offshore at an ever increasing rate, plus increasing reliance on desal for water supply, they'd better hope that solar, wind etc is a goer otherwise they're completely stuffed.

WA residents ought to be asking the state's leaders some damn hard questions about the long term future in my opinion.

Yes smurph, it sounds like a monumental stuff up. The State owned generation company couldn't come to an agreement on pricing with Wesfarmers. Sounds like a game of bluff that the generation company lost.

 

[bellenuit]

Yes smurph, it sounds like a monumental stuff up. The State owned generation company couldn't come to an agreement on pricing with Wesfarmers. Sounds like a game of bluff that the generation company lost.

Maybe the WA government should charge royalties in kind on its coal production. The tonnage and hence the royalty rate would be set at the state's coal needs. They can then on-sell to the energy producers or other coal consumers at the commercial rate.

 

[sptrawler]

Well it looks as though the second largest Australian coal producer is on the market now.
The way we are going we won't own any coal by the time the carbon tax kicks in.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/new-hope-soars-on-takeover-bids-20111005-1l7xq.html

I wonder what the longer term ramifications will be.

 

[IFocus]

Maybe the WA government should charge royalties in kind on its coal production. The tonnage and hence the royalty rate would be set at the state's coal needs. They can then on-sell to the energy producers or other coal consumers at the commercial rate.

The global coal market prices are 30 to 50% more than what WA state government pays for coal for generation.

One of the companies tried to tear up contacts that guarantee the lower pricing as they want the higher global pricing.

Once the contracts run out we will be paying much much higher electricity prices as a result.

State premier Barnett nearly had a heart attack when told the news of the remaining mine falling into foreign ownership its really a complete shambles as the security of our energy supplies falls into India / Chinese hands.

 

[Smurf1976]

State premier Barnett nearly had a heart attack when told the news of the remaining mine falling into foreign ownership its really a complete shambles as the security of our energy supplies falls into India / Chinese hands.

The bottom line is that WA has effectively locked itself into "importing" its' entire energy supply despite having massive reserves of gas, and substantial reserves of coal and oil.

If there's a physical shortage of coal, and with Chinese peak coal production looming sometime ahead that seems a reasonable chance, then quite simply WA won't be burning the stuff at ANY price since the entire local production will be exported. Well, it will be unless we do something like physically cease and then nationalise the mines.

Paper contracts for supply to the local market are just that, and they are worthless when it really comes to the crunch. The Chinese / Indians will decide where the coal goes, not WA.

 

[sptrawler]

And the funny thing is it won't just happen in W.A it will happen all over Australia. Macarthur coal sold to Peabody(US). Now New Hope on the market.
I certainly hope Bob and Julias new energy technology kicks in really quickly.
Because if it doesn't we are really going to be in the manure, having to buy our own coal back from the overseas owners. LOL,LOL,LOL. gag.

 

[drsmith]

Dear Mr Emerson,

please,

we are not fools,

Beyond the vibe, the policy most cited in support of the radical Labor-Greens alliance proposition is carbon pricing. According to this "gotcha" argument, Labor would not have put a price on carbon if it hadn't been forced into it by the Greens. Though Julia Gillard did rule out a carbon tax before the last election, she explicitly kept on the table the pricing of carbon through a market-based emissions trading scheme.

The Prime Minister has conceded she changed her position, opting for the three-year variant in light of the post-election composition of the parliament. But fixing a carbon price for three years instead of one is hardly the hallmark of a radical green-left policy, especially when the Malcolm Turnbull-led Coalition supported Labor's ETS with a one-year fixed price. John Howard took a similar scheme to the 2007 election.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...to-by-the-greens/story-e6frgd0x-1226162506582

Where's that community consensus that Prime Minister Julia Gillard promised BEFORE the last election ?

JULIA Gillard will pursue a carbon price if she wins the next election, but only after a "community consensus" is established for action on climate change.

This qualification sparked concerns from green groups that the new Prime Minister's words were "code for inaction".

Ms Gillard, in her first press conference as Prime Minister, said she believed in climate change and expressed disappointment that Australia did not have a price on carbon.

"And in the future we need one. But first we will need to establish a community consensus for action," Ms Gillard said.

The Prime Minister said she had been a participant in the decision to delay the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, which contributed to Kevin Rudd's plunge in the polls, and did not seek to diminish her role in making that decision.

"I came to that decision because I fundamentally believe that if you are going to restructure our economy so that we can deal with a carbon price and deal with all the transformations in our economy that requires, then you need community consensus to do so," she said.

Ms Gillard said there was not a community consensus about establishing a carbon price.

But she committed to "pursue that argument for change as vigorously as I can and as long as I need to, to see the establishment of that community consensus".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...sus-gillard-says/story-e6frgczf-1225884127606

She did not persue a community consensus. We can all see how divided the community is on this.

She did a deal with the Greens and independents in exchange for office.

 

[Calliope]

Carbon Tax bill passed. A day that will live in Infamy.

 

[sails]

Gillard is appropriately wearing black as she legislates this country down the gurgler.

Labor MPs are hugging and ecstatic over their "win" against the majority of voters - one wonders if they ever give any thought to the electorates they are supposed to represent?

They will now pinning their hopes on this going smoothly from now on. But has anything gone smoothly under Gillard's management? I think we are in for the biggest debacle yet and Costello mentioned recently that getting legislation through the parliament is the easy part. Implementing it is far more difficult.

 

[Julia]

Labor MPs are hugging and ecstatic over their "win" against the majority of voters - one wonders if they ever give any thought to the electorates they are supposed to represent?

Perhaps they will belatedly when they lose their seats at the next election.

By then, as you suggest, Sails, the implementation of the tax is unlikely to be smooth sailing, and the electorate's disgust will be many times multiplied.
It's a very depressing day.

 

[LostMyShirt]

Perhaps they will belatedly when they lose their seats at the next election.

By then, as you suggest, Sails, the implementation of the tax is unlikely to be smooth sailing, and the electorate's disgust will be many times multiplied.
It's a very depressing day.

So it has been passed... Damn.

I wonder how this will affect the markets, but most of all how i will affect the household budgets for so many people. Those companies will just pass the tax on, and these "tax breaks" are a headache and utter garbage.

Here is yet another bill the Australian people will have to fit, and the loss of parlimentary seats is not enough compensation.

 

[joea]

Hi.
Well there are 74 MP's who think they are heroes.(or have been told they are).
In a democracy, that is enough to pass the legislation.
The point is, will the Australian people respond to the benefits of this legislation?
After all 74 MP's who represent the so called majority, believe they will.

The other point is that the Independants who do not represent the majority, but have the control will do everything in their control to stay in power.

So I ask you, will the Australia voter be fooled again. After Kevin Rudd won office with no policy's. Julia Gillard took over with no policy's, and made them up on the move.

So I think the Australian voter will be gullible enough to be "rubbed up the right way" before the next election.( "or have their palms blessed with silver").

I watched Q&A the other night, and young voter still do no understand the policy's of the opposition. "Hello", " they are the ones that worked before Rudd took over.
joea

 

[Wysiwyg]

So I ask you, will the Australia voter be fooled again.

As the Labeens introduce a carbon tax in Australia to "apparently" address the "supposed" anthropomorphic warming of this planet, this very same country not only continues, but increases exports of the same "supposed" contributors to countries that have increasing demand for such energy source.

Define hypocritical, Julia?

 

[robusta]

Why dont we ring Allen Jones?????????

C'mon what can you do until the next election?

Whinge, whinge, moan, moan.

 

[dutchie]

Not only is this government a joke, but it has utter contempt for the Australian public!

 

[Calliope]

Queensland Premier Anna Bligh apparently knows something we don't. She says the Carbon Tax will save the Barrier Reef.

 

[noco]

Queensland Premier Anna Bligh apparently knows something we don't. She says the Carbon Tax will save the Barrier Reef.

Yeah, but nothing will save her come March 2012.

 

[drsmith]

Carbon Tax bill passed. A day that will live in Infamy.

The kiss of death for Julia Gillard ?

It looks like there's a document in Kev's left hand, but what's in his right hand ??

 

[joea]

Queensland Premier Anna Bligh apparently knows something we don't. She says the Carbon Tax will save the Barrier Reef.

In Mossman the cane is grown on sand in many places. The shells and bits are still there from hundred of years ago. This sand is about 5 to 7 metres above high tide level.
So the big tide must have went out one day a long time ago.
A marine expert from AIMS was on a panel the other day, (it might have been Bolts), and he said the water has become a lot shallower on top of the Barrier reep and it can handle it. He also said there will be an explosive growth of coral from New Guinea to the Great barrier Reef in years to come.

Anna Bligh knows and understands " jack s**t " about the climate and the reefs. She has been told to "stand at attention" or she will not get economic help from Gillard.

Go to AIMS and they will tell you the truth. I have worked with AIMS in building a prawn farm near Port Douglas. They researched the mangroves, compiled an impact study etc. etc. for us. People should go visit.
I have not seen one of these scientists on any panel compiled by the government.
AIMS .. Australian Institute of Marine Science. Its south of Townsville.

The carbon tax will save nothing but the "Labor Party" as it is their source of income to get them to the next 2012/2013 election. They are broke as is some of the states.(QLD)

joea

 

[noco]

In Mossman the cane is grown on sand in many places. The shells and bits are still there from hundred of years ago. This sand is about 5 to 7 metres above high tide level.
So the big tide must have went out one day a long time ago.
A marine expert from AIMS was on a panel the other day, (it might have been Bolts), and he said the water has become a lot shallower on top of the Barrier reep and it can handle it. He also said there will be an explosive growth of coral from New Guinea to the Great barrier Reef in years to come.

Anna Bligh knows and understands " jack s**t " about the climate and the reefs. She has been told to "stand at attention" or she will not get economic help from Gillard.

Go to AIMS and they will tell you the truth. I have worked with AIMS in building a prawn farm near Port Douglas. They researched the mangroves, compiled an impact study etc. etc. for us. People should go visit.
I have not seen one of these scientists on any panel compiled by the government.
AIMS .. Australian Institute of Marine Science. Its south of Townsville.

The carbon tax will save nothing but the "Labor Party" as it is their source of income to get them to the next 2012/2013 election. They are broke as is some of the states.(QLD)

joea

I can relate to similar circumstances in Aitkenvale, a Townsville suburb. Upon drilling for water with a hand auger, I pulled up periwrinkle shells 23 feet down uder.

Evident that at one stage most of Townsvilles low lying areas were under water; possibly back as far as Hervey's Range.

Professor Peter Ridd (James Cook Uni) who has studied the Great Barrier Reef for 25 years recently quoted the reef was in great shape and would only improve with warmer water.