Labor's carbon tax lie

[wayneL]

The real issue is atmospheric pollution in all forms. Beats me why they play these stupid games though. Might be some sort of wake up call before things do get worse.

You mean the propaganda?

 

[noco]

The US supreme court contradicts Gillard/Combet warmist theory.

Lets hear what she has to say please. Can someone get her to answer.


http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai..._supreme_court_contradicts_gillards_warmists/

 

[moXJO]

No surprise here, maybe if Julia gets into US politics she can back flip and reintroduce a carbon tax

AUSTRALIA will be embracing "unilateral economic disarmament" if it adopts a carbon tax, says the key US Republican congressman on climate change.
In a devastating judgment for the Gillard government's carbon tax plans, Jim Sensenbrenner told The Australian the US had turned its back on a carbon tax.

Mr Sensenbrenner said cap and trade - the US term for an emissions-trading scheme - was "dead in the US".

"Any kind of direct carbon tax is dead in the US," he said.

Ross Garnaut's comments about other nations carbon efforts are behind the times as well imo

Mr Sensenbrenner's comments point to the possibility that generalised pledges on climate change action by other countries will not be realised, whereas the report by the government's adviser, Ross Garnaut, takes all such pledges at face value.

It is Professor Garnaut's assessment that allows Canberra to claim other nations are taking action on climate change.

Mr Sensenbrenner said he did not believe carbon taxes would ultimately reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

"It just changes where they take place," he said, "and this doesn't make any real difference because there are no customs posts in the atmosphere."

This sums up my thoughts the tax is labors honey pot and little to do with the environment. All those green jobs they keep talking about won't end up here it will end up in China. I heard this morning that Australia manufacturing costs is 30% more than NZ. Why the hell would you make something in the most expensive place on earth? I worry more a little each day on the direction this green labor government is taking us economically.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-tax-is-economic-disarmament-us-mp/story-fn59niix-1226082386754

 

[shiftyphil]

I am often amazed at how labor supporters seem to have no idea of the real meaning of "democracy". They seem to think it's just all about the two party preferred electoral system - which does not always reflect the will of the people.


Here you go, IFocus - I think this is what Drsmith is talking about:

Meaning of DEMOCRACY from Merriam-Webster dictionary:

I'm completely amazed how Labor detractors seem to have no idea that the actual system of government we use in Australia is a representative/parliamentary democracy instead of a direct democracy. They seem to think it's just all about the will of the people - which does not always reflect the best interests of the country.

 

[wayneL]

I'm completely amazed how Labor detractors seem to have no idea that the actual system of government we use in Australia is a representative/parliamentary democracy instead of a direct democracy. They seem to think it's just all about the will of the people - which does not always reflect the best interests of the country.

Represent - to stand or act in the place of, as a substitute, proxy, or agent.

A representative should reflect the broad wishes of the community they represent. That may be difficult and one can't represent everyone precisely, but a genuine attempt must be made, otherwise the person is NOT a true representative.

That is why we vote, to select someone that best represents our wishes in parliament, as expressed in their election campaign.

 

[wayneL]

I'm completely amazed how Labor detractors seem to have no idea that the actual system of government we use in Australia is a representative/parliamentary democracy instead of a direct democracy. They seem to think it's just all about the will of the people - which does not always reflect the best interests of the country.

IOW shifty, how would you react if your community elected a purportedly socialist/social democratic representative and (s)he thought it in the the community's best interests to promulgate Austrian economic theory, the dismantling of the welfare state and the deportation of all non anglo-saxon/celtic stock?

 

[Calliope]

This sums up my thoughts the tax is labors honey pot and little to do with the environment. All those green jobs they keep talking about won't end up here it will end up in China.

"Economic disarmament" describes Gillard's tax exactly. There is little doubt that America has given carbon pricing the flick. The Republicans won't have a bar of it, and in the same article;

A senior strategist for the Democratic Party in Washington has confirmed that neither Mr Obama nor congressional Democrats would campaign for a carbon price in next year's presidential and congressional elections.

This has pulled the rug out from under Gillard. However it won't faze the greens. All their efforts are geared toward Australia committing "economic disarmament.'"

 

[noco]

"Economic disarmament" describes Gillard's tax exactly. There is little doubt that America has given carbon pricing the flick. The Republicans won't have a bar of it, and in the same article;



This has pulled the rug out from under Gillard. However it won't faze the greens. All their efforts are geared toward Australia committing "economic disarmament.'"

Calliope, I fully agree with you and have been saying it for a while now, this Green/Labor Government are out ruin free enterprise.

Don't be surprised if you get the criticizim I received from certain ASF members that your statement of "economic disarmament" will be branded as rediculous.

 

[springhill]

A thought occurred to me today, don't we, by the way of a GST, already have a carbon tax? GST is a consumption tax. Consumption comes at the end of a manufacturing process, manufacturing causes pollution (ie. carbon production). Pollution causes climate change. rolleyes

Couldn't Labor, in it's infinite wisdom, add 5% to the GST, set that 5% aside from revenue and put it into eco-friendly matters such that they have been promoting? You consume, you pay.
Is that really too complicated?

Some might say that is taxing the people not those nasty polluters, but make no mistake, as with GST manufacturers WILL pass costs on, whether it's a GST or a carbon tax.

 

[noco]

When, in the interest of all Australians will this Prime Minister of ours start telling the truth about what other nations are doing on a carbon dioxide tax instead of trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

She must be defeated on this issue.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...overnment-scheme/story-fn59niix-1226082376158

 

[Julia]

A thought occurred to me today, don't we, by the way of a GST, already have a carbon tax? GST is a consumption tax. Consumption comes at the end of a manufacturing process, manufacturing causes pollution (ie. carbon production). Pollution causes climate change. rolleyes

Couldn't Labor, in it's infinite wisdom, add 5% to the GST, set that 5% aside from revenue and put it into eco-friendly matters such that they have been promoting? You consume, you pay.
Is that really too complicated?

Some might say that is taxing the people not those nasty polluters, but make no mistake, as with GST manufacturers WILL pass costs on, whether it's a GST or a carbon tax.

Sounds so sensible, doesn't it, springhill! And it's my bet that if the government had proposed this, simply explaining that the budget had taken a hit with the floods etc, on top of the stimulus payments, and that therefore, very sadly, an increase in the GST was necessary in order to maintain a high quality of education, medical, infrastructure services, the population would have grizzled for a week or two, and then just accepted it, much as we did with the original GST.

Instead they have gone off on this 'great moral challenge' of climate change which much of the population has fallen out of love with, and they are reaping the obvious repercussions of trying to sell something to the electorate which makes no sense to the average voter.

 

[Julia]

When, in the interest of all Australians will this Prime Minister of ours start telling the truth about what other nations are doing on a carbon dioxide tax instead of trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

url]http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/a-lethal-blow-for-government-scheme/story-fn59niix-1226082376158[/url]

An interesting article, and the comments following it are well worth a read also.

The sentiments expressed are very similar to those I read or heard on the radio over the weekend by the person who, I think, was the head of whatever the organisation is that comprises all central banks.
Apologies for being so vague. I can't now find the article, but it essentially echoed what was said in Noco's link above, and came from someone with the experience and authority, you'd imagine, to know.

If anyone else has read/heard what I'm trying to think of, I'd be grateful for the link or reference.

 

[drsmith]

Is Labor slamming the Greens at the negotiating table ?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ms-brown-on-coal/story-fn59niix-1226083110549

Julia Gillard is certainly slamming the public,

Yesterday she insisted the carbon tax was the right thing to do. "It's the equivalent of saying 'eat your vegetables', I suppose," she told Sydney radio.

So now we are being lectured like children.

The polls speak for themselves.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/labor-still-running-at-record-low/story-e6frf7jo-1226083059917

 

[trainspotter]

Irrespective of what we desire or what the polls say we will be getting a carbon tax on July 1st when the Greens have the balance of power in the senate come July 1st.

No ifs or buts about it. We are deeply in the manure and it aint growing roses.

 

[drsmith]

Irrespective of what we desire or what the polls say we will be getting a carbon tax on July 1st when the Greens have the balance of power in the senate come July 1st.

Not necessarily.

The carbon tax is killing Labor and the Greens know it.

The Greens are playing a high-stakes game as negotiations over the carbon tax enter the final leg. The choice is between compromising in order to achieve a tax or once again wrecking Labor's proposal just as in 2009, when they rejected Kevin Rudd's emissions trading scheme. The Greens seem to be laying the groundwork for both -- agreeing to a tax but criticising it so comprehensively that they destroy any hope of Labor containing the issue politically.

Once the detalis are realesed, this will be the next bomb to fall on Labor, again driven by the Greens.

The Greens' push for more money for renewables as part of the government's carbon tax package reveals their efforts to have a foot in both camps. Greens deputy leader Christine Milne has argued for more money to be spent on renewable energy technologies, even though the Productivity Commission has exposed the inefficiency of such subsidies. It found the state and commonwealth schemes have cost billions of dollars for little result, with schemes such as state-based feed-in tariffs for rooftop solar costing between five and 10 times as much as a market-based scheme to cut the same amount of CO2 emissions.

The Greens have got Labor into a very akward posture. We can only hope that at some point, panic sets in within Labor and they see an exit strategy as the lesser or two political evils.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ational-interest/story-e6frg71x-1226083036919

 

[drsmith]

Trip, stumble, trip, stumble......

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/gillard-slips-up-on-carbon-compensation-20110628-1gohd.html

 

[Wysiwyg]

Australian carbon taxed business competing against non carbon tax business in other countries? Bit tough I envisage.

 

[Calliope]

Australian carbon taxed business competing against non carbon tax business in other countries? Bit tough I envisage.

Yes it's called economic disarmament. We must be an international joke. It's difficult to believe that Brown and Gillard are not economic vandals. Their carbon policies are deliberately sabotaging our industries, and we still don't know why.

 

[noco]

How can anybody trust this Prime Minister JU-LIAR.What she says and what she does is two different things. No wonder she is behind in the polls and there she will stay.
She says "there will be no carbon dioxide tax under the government I lead" and then to appease the Greens, she brings one in.
How can anyone trust her to give compensation to tax payers and pensioners
And why does she keep avoiding stating she will give 10% of the carbon dioxide tax to the UN?
This is economic vandalism at it's best


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...inister-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1226083325297

 

[Julia]

From the comments section following noco's above link:

The collapse of the European Carbon Tax scheme last week might be the start of the whole Climate Change demise. If so Gillard's stance is untenable. The Greens will have to get a scheme approved immediately as evidence suggests the envelope has closed and further extensions will just play into Abbott's hands. With Europe close to bankruptcy, there is no doubt the alarmists are in a losing battle. You watch the scientists come out of the woodwork with changed views, such as we need more CO2 for more trees to make oxygen.

This seems a reasonable point, given the mess in Europe. Anything I've read about the European ETS/carbon tax has suggested it has largely been a failure, rife with rorting.

A new carbon tax, if set at $25 a tonne, will raise more tax from liable Australian companies in its first three months than the European Union's emissions trading scheme has generated since its launch more than six years ago.

Think about that. The proposed carbon pricing scheme in the country that accounts for 1.4 per cent of global emissions is going to generate more tax revenue in three months than the scheme in the European trading bloc that accounts for 14 per cent of global emissions has generated in more than six years.

And from the USA, also held up as a shining example by the Australian government:

The other carbon pricing scheme most frequently cited by the Gillard government as evidence of global action is the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, which applies to power plants in 10 northeastern states of the US. These states, including New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey, account for almost 20 per cent of the US economy, about three times the size of the Australian economy, and about 4 per cent of global emissions. The present carbon price in this scheme is just $1.89. How much tax has been raised by this scheme during the two years of its operation? About $790 million, according to a program review published a few weeks ago. In short, the proposed Australian carbon tax will raise more revenue in its first month (July next year) than the US regional scheme has generated since it started in January 2009. Yet legislators in New Hampshire are threatening to withdraw from the scheme, citing adverse effects on their local economy

Above quotes are from an article by Seamus French in The Australian 4 April 2011.