Labor's carbon tax lie

[drsmith]

Should there be a national plebiscite on whether to impose a carbon tax?
Yes 88.46% (2016 votes)

+1.

Reading the article, I note messrs Windsor and Oakshott are not too happy about the people having a say.

Mr Windsor also said it was a stunt that would waste money as he called on Mr Abbott to instead give his own MPs a conscience vote on the issue.

Mr Windsor,

The politicians have had their say. Both major parties went to the election with pledges not to tax carbon dioxide during this term.

 

[sails]

+1.

Reading the article, I note messrs Windsor and Oakshott are not too happy about the people having a say.

Mr Windsor also said it was a stunt that would waste money as he called on Mr Abbott to instead give his own MPs a conscience vote on the issue.

Mr Windsor,

The politicians have had their say. Both major parties went to the election with pledges not to tax carbon dioxide during this term.

And why are they not asking labor MPs to have a conscience vote? Why only the coalition?

I think we need a new election...

 

[Logique]

Ha ha, now we'll see what the 'Wilkie Bar Kid' is made of. Listen to your better self Mr Wilkie, and redeem your reputation. Especially after you turned down $1Mill for the Hobart Hospital.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...mpose-carbon-tax/story-e6freuy9-1226078085686
In favour of a law to impose carbon tax? Simon Benson Chief Political Reporter From: The Daily Telegraph [Sydney] June 20, 2011

"..Mr Abbott is banking on two conservative Independents Bob Katter and Tony Crook to support the [plebiscite] bill in the lower house, which is unlikely to begin debate on it until the first day of the next sitting week, which would be July 4.

He would then need only Tasmanian independent Andrew Wilkie to support it to get it through both houses and force the government to order a national vote on the tax.."

 

[Julia]

I wonder why Mr Abbott hasn't come up with this before now? It's getting very close to when the Greens control the Senate. Someone will correct me if I'm misunderstanding how it all works, but won't the votes of both Senator Fielding and Senator Xenophon then become immaterial?

I can't see the Greens supporting Mr Abbott's plebiscite which, even if were to happen, would be non-binding, so presumably the government can go ahead just as they intend to do with the Malaysia deal for asylum seekers, despite the parliament's motion against it.

I still like the idea, obviously, but can see Tony Windsor's point that it's a lot of money to spend on something which the government is quite entitled to ignore.

 

[drsmith]

He won't get Wilkie's support. He's allready looking at how to slip under the radar on this one.

Mr Wilkie says he will not make a decision until he gets advice on whether the $80 million spend is a money bill.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/20/3248095.htm

 

[drsmith]

Someone will correct me if I'm misunderstanding how it all works, but won't the votes of both Senator Fielding and Senator Xenophon then become immaterial?

This is the context in which Tony Windsor's excuse below should be viewed,

Mr Windsor says he is rejecting it because he thinks it is "a stunt" and because no carbon price legislation has been agreed to in the Multi-Party Climate Change Committee.

 

[IFocus]

+1.

Reading the article, I note messrs Windsor and Oakshott are not too happy about the people having a say.


Mr Windsor,

The politicians have had their say. Both major parties went to the election with pledges not to tax carbon dioxide during this term.

You missed this bit

Mr Albanese highlighted Mr Abbott's admission on morning radio that, if the proposed plebiscite endorsed the tax, he would still go to an election pledging to repeal it.

"I think that fact that it is a stunt is exemplified by Tony Abbott's own words," he said.

Sort of kills Abbotts line I would think, what a tosser.......

 

[sails]

You missed this bit

Sort of kills Abbotts line I would think, what a tosser.......

I agree it would have been better if Abbott didn't say that line, but on the positive side he was being honest. If one looks at it logically, should the majority want the tax, then there is a good chance he won't be PM anyway, so I guess he had nothing to lose.

However, I think the absolute resistance of Gillard and the indies in NOT wanting to let the people have their say despite Gillard's promise of NO carbon tax doesn't show the spirit of democracy. Rather it shows that they prefer a dictatorial government.

So, Abbott made one mistake and he is slaughtered. Gillard & co refuse point blank to give the people an opportunity to have a say and that's OK with you? You don't care about democracy, IFocus?

 

[drsmith]

Sort of kills Abbotts line I would think, .......

Not at all. That's his policy.

Labor's pre-election deception was also not to tax carbon dioxide. We now know otherwise. That's the point of the plebiscite.

 

[IFocus]

I agree it would have been better if Abbott didn't say that line, but on the positive side he was being honest. If one looks at it logically, should the majority want the tax, then there is a good chance he won't be PM anyway, so I guess he had nothing to lose.

However, I think the absolute resistance of Gillard and the indies in NOT wanting to let the people have their say despite Gillard's promise of NO carbon tax doesn't show the spirit of democracy. Rather it shows that they prefer a dictatorial government.

So, Abbott made one mistake and he is slaughtered. Gillard & co refuse point blank to give the people an opportunity to have a say and that's OK with you? You don't care about democracy, IFocus?

Sails understand your points but democracy happens when the government of the day calls an election not when the opposition leader demands it.

Where are all the ministers being forced to resign as a result of being caught out by the opposition .......none whats so ever Abbott is so over stated its not funny.

Its a great environment for us political junkies at the moment but lets face it all the parties currently are the second string reserve players I think we are an election or two away from until we see some real head kickers start leading the country.

 

[Ruby]

IF, clearly you are in favour of the carbon (dioxide) tax, so what do you think the implementation of this tax will do to help the global situation?

I have been trying to find out what benefit this tax will have and no-one seems to be able to tell me.

 

[drsmith]

Where are all the ministers being forced to resign as a result of being caught out by the opposition .......none whats so ever Abbott is so over stated its not funny.

IF,
It's good to see you back in full flight. I was beginning to think you had been a victim of one of Kevin Rudd's bunker busters.

They don't resign at the ALP. They jusy carry on regardless and knife their PM in the back.

 

[sails]

Not at all. That's his policy.

Labor's pre-election deception was also not to tax carbon dioxide. We now know otherwise. That's the point of the plebiscite.

Yes, pot kettle black comes to mind here...

But it seems the pot has trouble seeing just how black it is and points it's accusing finger at the kettle with three fingers firmly pointing back to itself...

 

[drsmith]

Yes, pot kettle black comes to mind here...

But it seems the pot has trouble seeing just how black it is and points it's accusing finger at the kettle with three fingers firmly pointing back to itself...

The pot would be well aware of it's own coat of carbon in relation to it's policies.

This is about the honesty of major tax policy prior to an election. It is not about the merits of individual policies on taxing carbon dioxide. There's always challenges in politics and that's what Tony Abbott has to sell in relation to this plebiscite.

 

[Slipperz]

Good on Tony Abbot for calling the plebiscite. The manner in which Juliar Gillard deceived the electorate on this issue to my mind is perhaps the most disingenuous piece of political chicanery in modern Australian political history.

At least John Howard was upfront enough to take his GST to the polls and in retrospect it has turned pretty well IMHO.

If the greens and the independants think the Australian public are behind the concept of a carbon tax they should back the plebiscite as well.

I'm all for it. The plebiscite that is

 

[sails]

Sails understand your points but democracy happens when the government of the day calls an election not when the opposition leader demands it.

Where are all the ministers being forced to resign as a result of being caught out by the opposition .......none whats so ever Abbott is so over stated its not funny.

Its a great environment for us political junkies at the moment but lets face it all the parties currently are the second string reserve players I think we are an election or two away from until we see some real head kickers start leading the country.

IFocus, I think this minority government have found the loop hole in democracy. I have never witnessed anything so undemocratic in Australia before.

They are a minority government and got over the line with two independents who apparently did not represent the majority will of their electorates.

Then we have Gillard who not only lied pre-election about her carbon tax, but persists on with it despite the clear message she is getting from her falling polls.

Do you really call that democracy? I think dictatorship is more fitting and Abbott should be applauded for trying to give the people a voice.


Definition of DEMOCRACY- from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1
a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

 

[white_goodman]

IF,
It's good to see you back in full flight. I was beginning to think you had been a victim of one of Kevin Rudd's bunker busters.

They don't resign at the ALP. They jusy carry on regardless and knife their PM in the back.

they cant resign, none of them have ever worked in the private sector, theyd be going unemployed

 

[white_goodman]

At least John Howard was upfront enough to take his GST to the polls and in retrospect it has turned pretty well IMHO.

its a little different selling a tax reform that doesnt actually reform but costs jobs, raise prices and base it solely on climate religion. GST was designed to replace a whole bunch of outdated taxes (thus reform) whilst giving the state govts enough tax revenue to elimate federal funding to the states (looks like the states have been run well recently)..

going to plebiscite would be the cheapest measure for the Australian economy on the question of climate 'science'

 

[Slipperz]

its a little different selling a tax reform that doesnt actually reform but costs jobs, raise prices and base it solely on climate religion. GST was designed to replace a whole bunch of outdated taxes (thus reform) whilst giving the state govts enough tax revenue to elimate federal funding to the states (looks like the states have been run well recently)..

going to plebiscite would be the cheapest measure for the Australian economy on the question of climate 'science'

Maybe we could just whack a gigantic export tariff on our coal exports to India and China seeing as they are the worlds biggest polluters. Call it a carbon reduction tariff or some crap like that. That might encourage them to reduce their consumption. Seeing as they don't seem too concerned about doing anything on a global scale we could do it for them rather than screw our own economy. :

 

[trainspotter]

Maybe we could just whack a gigantic export tariff on our coal exports to India and China seeing as they are the worlds biggest polluters. Call it a carbon reduction tariff or some crap like that. That might encourage them to reduce their consumption. Seeing as they don't seem too concerned about doing anything on a global scale we could do it for them rather than screw our own economy. :

Breathtaking in it's clarity. Vote 1 Slipperz. Use the funds raised to invest in clean, green, mean, dream technology.