Labor's carbon tax lie

[Calliope]

Lies and doublespeak!!!

As Orwell would say; "Our emissions, bad...Chinese emissions, good."

And how else could you explain how shipping large quantities of fossil fuels to China equates with our intention to tax similar "pollution" here?

 

[Calliope]

Terry McCrann says "that if we are intent on attacking the foundation of our prosperity, the carbon tax and/or an emissions trading scheme, would be the less stupid.way.".

He said Abbott's alternative scheme is a "crock". It's only positive feature is that it would be easier to dump when, or if, we come to our senses.

 

[sails]

Wonder if the "compensation" to pensioners is going to go the distance...

From News.com.au by Steve Lewis : Carbon tax to lift prices for consumers on big brands

CONSUMERS will be slugged with price rises on everyday items like milk, cheese, chocolate and pizzas as the carbon tax puts the squeeze on retailers and producers.

Even plane tickets and phone bills won't be spared when the Gillard Government's greenhouse emissions scheme comes into effect as early as July 2012.

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting I saw the tail end of an interview with someone who said all the modelling was based on full employment. He went on to say this would lead to a fall in wages and a resultant fall in living standards. I didn't see the full interview but it was on lateline business.

 

[drsmith]

I don't blame the likes of Smurf or Dr Zacchary for getting on board, the fault lies with the ALP, state and federal ('friend of the worker party') for designing such a ridiculously inequitable scheme, and administering it so abominably.

Governments of both sides have squandered a fair portion of our tax dollars in this abomination.

What will be interesting as Labor releases some actual detail on their carbon dioxide tax is how much of this rubbish they propose to keep in place to satisfy the Greens.

 

[Smurf1976]

There's another big flaw in the modelling...

So, we're going to switch electricity generation to gas. Now what do you think that is going to do to the price of gas as it leads to rapid depletion of SE Australia reserves and competition (with exports) for gas from northern Australia?

Get set for import parity gas pricing as we have with petrol. Those over a certain age will remember rather well what that means in terms of price, and it's the likely outcome with gas too once you factor in a doubling or trebling of counsumption and a situation where all known reserves are either committed to exports or local consumption (a situation which is very rapidly emerging by the way - we're hell bent on getting the stuff out of the ground as fast as we can it seems).

You don't just end up paying the extra cost of gas-fired power based on current gas prices. No, you end up paying that based on a much higher gas price and also paying more for all other uses of gas as well.

This isn't going to be cheap, and that's without even mentioning the cost of the tax itself. What we're talking about here, is adding real costs to the economy. Switching away from cheap resources (coal), in favour of more expensive resources (gas), which will itself rise in price given that as is a realatively limited resource.

I doubt that many have any real grasp of this and certainly not politicians. And I'll throw in another one - what are we going to be using for automotive fuel 15 years from now?

Good luck if you think we'll still be able to cheaply import oil once China etc is able to buy not just some, but the entire production of the Middle East producers. With a bit of luck they might let us have some - but it won't likely be cheap.

Electric cars? Maybe someday, but we're not going to have millions of those on the roads in that timeframe.

Biofuels? Do the maths - it's a supplement not a replacement beyond the point of using agricultural wastes. The food you eat is equivalent to 2 litres of petrol a week - we're not going to grow a tank full a week for every car anytime soon.

Which leaves... gas! Yep, gas! You know, that stuff we're busy selling offshore as quickly as we can whilst planning to use what remains to generate electricity. Nobody seems to have thought about the future need to run vehicles on the stuff...

 

[drsmith]

Which leaves... gas!

To the above, I'll add security of supply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Western_Australian_gas_crisis

 

[drsmith]

Is this the Greens hitting the panic button ?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...arbon-tax-debate/story-e6frg6xf-1226076922748

 

[mexican]

Yes Dr.Smith they are looking very desperate indeed!
We have gone from "Climate change" to "Global warming" and now back to "Climate change".........I wonder why????? Are some of the believers now starting too doubt?
This carbon tax is all about CO2 causing global warming.......climate changes and it does every Tom, Dick and Harry know's that.
People are starting to smell a big fat dead RAT!!!

 

[sails]

Is this the Greens hitting the panic button ?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...arbon-tax-debate/story-e6frg6xf-1226076922748

Why are they trying to sell this to the public? I thought Gillard was going to bring it in regardless of the polls against it.

I think Aussies are waking up to the fact that the "big polluters" will pass this tax on to the Aussie people, so any ad along the line of making big polluters pay may not be exactly true and may turn the Aussie public off even further.

It is the Aussie people who will end up paying the higher costs or going without.

There doesn't seem to be any affordable and reliable renewable energy that's ready for the people to switch to. So, I suppose the greens want children to shiver through winter because their parents can't afford to put the heater on. Cruel.

Surely carbon tax shouldn't be brought in until reliable and affordable energy alternatives are readily available to the masses so they have a choice of energy supply. But to just make the only thing we have unaffordable to working familes (the ones who probably won't get compensation) is a stupid thing to do, imo.

 

[Julia]

Why are they trying to sell this to the public? I thought Gillard was going to bring it in regardless of the polls against it.

Yep, good point. Ditto the Cate Blanchett commercial where we are urged to "say yes".

Surely carbon tax shouldn't be brought in until reliable and affordable energy alternatives are readily available to the masses so they have a choice of energy supply. But to just make the only thing we have unaffordable to working familes (the ones who probably won't get compensation) is a stupid thing to do, imo.

Exactly. My fear is that we will start to experience blackouts and brownouts.
If that happens, the level of voter outrage will make the present polls look successful!

 

[drsmith]

Are the covers about to get thrown off the bed ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/17/3246733.htm

 

[sails]

Is Gillard not quite telling the truth again? An article from the Australian by Henry Ergas

World of sham carbon policies exposed

CONTRARY to repeated assertions by the Prime Minister, the Productivity Commission did not endorse an economy-wide emissions trading scheme. Rather, its recently released report on carbon emissions policies models an ETS that applies only to the electricity sector and excludes all trade-exposed industries.

Looks like this story has international interest in the North Korea Times:
http://story.northkoreatimes.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/ed68ecccb9e5520c/id/46184573/

 

[sptrawler]

There's another big flaw in the modelling...

So, we're going to switch electricity generation to gas. Now what do you think that is going to do to the price of gas as it leads to rapid depletion of SE Australia reserves and competition (with exports) for gas from northern Australia?

Get set for import parity gas pricing as we have with petrol. Those over a certain age will remember rather well what that means in terms of price, and it's the likely outcome with gas too once you factor in a doubling or trebling of counsumption and a situation where all known reserves are either committed to exports or local consumption (a situation which is very rapidly emerging by the way - we're hell bent on getting the stuff out of the ground as fast as we can it seems).

You don't just end up paying the extra cost of gas-fired power based on current gas prices. No, you end up paying that based on a much higher gas price and also paying more for all other uses of gas as well.

This isn't going to be cheap, and that's without even mentioning the cost of the tax itself. What we're talking about here, is adding real costs to the economy. Switching away from cheap resources (coal), in favour of more expensive resources (gas), which will itself rise in price given that as is a realatively limited resource.

I doubt that many have any real grasp of this and certainly not politicians. And I'll throw in another one - what are we going to be using for automotive fuel 15 years from now?

Good luck if you think we'll still be able to cheaply import oil once China etc is able to buy not just some, but the entire production of the Middle East producers. With a bit of luck they might let us have some - but it won't likely be cheap.

Electric cars? Maybe someday, but we're not going to have millions of those on the roads in that timeframe.

Biofuels? Do the maths - it's a supplement not a replacement beyond the point of using agricultural wastes. The food you eat is equivalent to 2 litres of petrol a week - we're not going to grow a tank full a week for every car anytime soon.

Which leaves... gas! Yep, gas! You know, that stuff we're busy selling offshore as quickly as we can whilst planning to use what remains to generate electricity. Nobody seems to have thought about the future need to run vehicles on the stuff...

Well Smurph, we are going to get painted into a corner over here in the West.
The Indians have picked up one of the two coalmines that supply our Power Sations. Wesfarmers have put the other on the market and the Indians are bidding for that.
There is a 60% dependance on L.N.G and no guarantee of minimum domestic supply.
Would appear we going to have to end up paying overseas companies, whatever they ask, for our resources.
So much for the foreign investment review board.
Boy has this government lost the plot.
You get taxed on the coal a foreign company dig up and then get taxed on the electricity the coal produces.
The Indians today announced they are buying into Gina Rineharts coal interests.
Funny really, when I think the Indians are the only ones with a "carbon tax on coal" or so they say.
Smells of " rope a dope" and this government is the biggest dopes around, blind Freddy would see something is wrong.

 

[Julia]

Are the covers about to get thrown off the bed ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/17/3246733.htm

From the above link:

Mr Combet reaffirmed the Government's support for industry assistance, saying it was determined to ensure "strong protection and support for jobs" during the transition to clean energy.

"As a Labor Government we will always push hard to support jobs and families, as was the Government's approach during the global financial crisis, and this will always be a key focus for us in any public policy deliberations," Mr Combet said in a statement

This focus seems to be making it clear to the Greens that the government will only go so far to accommodate them.
I've raised the possibility before, that it could be posssible the government is now regretting the decision to introduce a carbon tax, given the massive electorate backlash against it, so could an impasse with the Greens which would prevent the legislation happening, actually be their way of wriggling out yet saving face by blaming the Greens and their 'extremist' demands?

 

[sptrawler]

From the above link:


This focus seems to be making it clear to the Greens that the government will only go so far to accommodate them.
I've raised the possibility before, that it could be posssible the government is now regretting the decision to introduce a carbon tax, given the massive electorate backlash against it, so could an impasse with the Greens which would prevent the legislation happening, actually be their way of wriggling out yet saving face by blaming the Greens and their 'extremist' demands?

Well that would really blow up the fragile relationship that holds the minority government together.

 

[noco]

Well that would really blow up the fragile relationship that holds the minority government together.

Yes, the sooner the better. We may yet see some ruckus before Xmas and the Indies may also be a stumbling block for Gillard.
Don't think our PM will get too much sleep this weekend unless Ruddy pops her a mogadon.

 

[MACCA350]

Not sure if this has been posted in here before but the link below shows the resignation letter of Prof. E. H. Lewis.

Professor Emiritus Hal Lewis Resigns from American Physical Society

Here are some snippets:

For reasons that will soon become clear my former pride at being an APS Fellow all these years has been turned into shame, and I am forced, with no pleasure at all, to offer you my resignation from the Society.

It is of course, the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Anyone who has the faintest doubt that this is so should force himself to read the ClimateGate documents, which lay it bare. (Montford’s book organizes the facts very well.) I don’t believe that any real physicist, nay scientist, can read that stuff without revulsion. I would almost make that revulsion a definition of the word scientist.
So what has the APS, as an organization, done in the face of this challenge? It has accepted the corruption as the norm, and gone along with it. For example:

APS management has gamed the problem from the beginning, to suppress serious conversation about the merits of the climate change claims. Do you wonder that I have lost confidence in the organization?

I want no part of it, so please accept my resignation. APS no longer represents me, but I hope we are still friends.

Cheers

 

[Ruby]

Not sure if this has been posted in here before but the link below shows the resignation letter of Prof. E. H. Lewis.

Professor Emiritus Hal Lewis Resigns from American Physical Society

Thanks Macca, anyone who doubts the corruption in this whole issue should read this.

 

[Logique]

Yet another scientist who doesn't think the 'science is settled'. It's becoming a very long and well credentialed list. Worthy of note that it's the senior scientists who are coming out, i.e. the ones the carbonista science establishment can't suppress or defame.