Labor's carbon tax lie

[Logique]

..Logique, I actually find "Insight" more balanced than Q&A. Perhaps this is because Jenny Brockie offers at least the impression of objectivity..Tony Jones doesn't even pretend to do this.

Jones has picked up his game somewhat, credit to him on that.

I agree that Jenny Brockie always tries for a balanced discussion. You can only interview the ones that turn up, it's not her fault the audience wasn't a bit more balanced.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Someone that even the Flim Flam man respects...

Professor Richard Lindzen on the carbon tax

and I too have respect for this man.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Chris Smith talks to Professor John Christy, lead author of the IPCC report, who says a carbon tax will not lower global surface temperatures....

Professor John Christy on climate change

 

[Logique]

Where are you Gumby.
This is one Youtube that needs embedding. http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ts/choking_on_greenpeace_deceit/#commentsmore

I'm not allowed to say gobsmacked, but this advert had me...gobsmacked.

Nasty banks, hiding coal in their offices! I've seen everything now. I hope ANZ sues the makers.

 

[orr]

I hope ANZ sues the makers.[/QUOTE]

I do to, I'd love to know on what grounds. But they wont. They'll keep stum and hope it disappears from public memory as quick as as most other things.
If you like that one, wait till you see the one on ANZ's funding support of Cluster munitions manufacturers, see if Mr Bolt puts that one up. Or is that all in the past I'll have to check.

 

[noco]

Juliar Gillard must be so dense and narrow minded I'm sure she can see through a keyhole with both eyes.
She just does not get it. With pressure from the Greens, the Coalition and from within her own ranks and the fact that she herself does not believe in what she is trying to sell, must be turning into a political nightmare for both she and the Labor Party and to top it off Tim Flannery states what she is trying to achieve with this carbon dioxide tax will not happen for 1000years.
It just does not make sense!!!


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...t-from-all-sides/story-e6frgd0x-1226035609345

 

[Smurf1976]

Nasty banks, hiding coal in their offices! I've seen everything now. I hope ANZ sues the makers.

Burning coal sure beats burning $100 notes as a way to heat the place in winter. Cheaper too.

Seriously, this is the same bank that was blackmailed into not financing a pulp mill that has been subject to so much Green misinformation that it makes the climate change goings on seem trivial in comparisson.

I've had enough of this business of Greens blackmailing legitimate business on one hand, then on the other having the nerve to claim that they aren't in government and therefore aren't responsible for anything. Only a politician could come up with something like that...

 

[IFocus]

Peter van Onselen on the ETS from the coalitions side


"Coalition's chutzpah cloaks short memories"

While the opposition might not be making itself the issue at the moment, it's nonetheless worth looking at its divisions concerning what action should be taken on climate change. The divisions are real and they haven't gone away, even if political success has forced disagreements out of view.

Climate change spokesman Greg Hunt, manager of opposition business in the House of Representatives Christopher Pyne, deputy leader of the opposition in the Senate George Brandis, shadow immigration minister Scott Morrison and countless other Coalition MPs are getting their media fix gloating about Labor's climate change woes in the here and now.

But they would do well to remember that in late 2009 each of them were arguing till they were blue in the face - with colleagues and through the media - that Turnbull should be backed in his efforts to pass the ETS. "You must price carbon if you want action on climate change" some bellowed.

Now where have I heard this before......

In the name of Coalition unity, however, forget is exactly what conservatives have done: attaining power is more important than principles.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-short-memories/story-e6frgd0x-1226036207574

 

[drsmith]

Peter van Onselen on the ETS from the coalitions side

Since we are quoting The Australian,

For too long Labor, state and federal, has pushed ineffective green schemes at high cost as part of pro-green gesture politics. They are now being documented and scaled back.

Witness Gillard's ditching the Cleaner Car Rebate Scheme (known as cash for clunkers), winding up the Car Green Innovation Fund and Greg Combet bringing an end to Labor's rooftop solar panels credit scheme.

This week's report from the think tank, the Grattan Institute, showed a litany of failed schemes from Labor and the Coalition. Grant tendering programs worth $7bn and rebate programs totalling $5bn were judged as wasteful and producing little abatement.

The cost of some solar programs was a direct fiscal fraud with estimates of the net cost of emission reductions up to $300 per tonne.

The bipartisan Renewable Energy Target, actually backed by the Grattan report, had its subsidy cost estimated at a high $30-$70 per tonne. The previous week Minister Ferguson broke ranks to warn the RET came "at a high cost to the community".

Meanwhile another Gillard cabinet minister (not Ferguson) told me: "Large sections of Australia's rich are engaged in a conspiracy to screw the poor in the name of saving the planet."

He was talking about feed-in tariffs, a classic rort. They are applied to a better or worse (usually worse) extent in most states and function as a regressive tax. Under this policy high income earners are subsidised to supply renewable energy to the grid from their installed solar panels.

Where is the rort worse?

Exactly where you would expect: in the Australian Capital Territory, home of income re-distribution towards the better-off in the name of clean energy. Indeed, it is calculated that wealthy Canberrans will receive a 900 per cent subsidy for every kilowatt hour of electricity they supply to the grid. Yes, this is the socially progressive Labor Party in action.

The point is that Labor, for too long, betrayed its base with green programs that were regressive and ineffective. This is recognised and being corrected by the Gillard government. Yet much of Labor is still in denial. It needs to get its house in order in preparation for its coming attack on Abbott's direct action scheme.

I have little faith that the Coaltition's direct action policies are any better, but labor is worse in that they want to waste larger sums of money on carbon dioxide mitigation as evidenced by the carbon tax itself. To make matters worse for Labor on this issue, they are clearly hopelessly dishonest.

Both sides need to wipe the slate clean on this and start again, and in doing so, look beyond the electoral cycle.

 

[IFocus]

Since we are quoting The Australian,


I have little faith that the Coaltition's direct action policies are any better, but labor is worse in that they want to waste larger sums of money on carbon dioxide mitigation as evidenced by the carbon tax itself. To make matters worse for Labor on this issue, they are clearly hopelessly dishonest.

Both sides need to wipe the slate clean on this and start again, and in doing so, look beyond the electoral cycle.

If you deal with political reality both are transitional policy's to an ETS as niether will meet 2020 requirements.

As for the size of waste you need to re-access the the coalitions numbers to meet the reductions for 2020............... not even close.

I totally agree re wipe the slate clean but don't think the political leadership on either side is up to it.

 

[IFocus]

Everyone here likes to bang on about Labors position on Carbon, OK no beef about this but what is the alternative

Lenore Taylor who is run down here as a Labor stooge (not even close however she is a smart girl who looks at the numbers) writes a interesting article about the cliams by Abbott.

Shock horror it doesn't add up.

"Abbott's beef on carbon price doesn't add up"

Tony Abbott has taken his ''great big new tax'' campaign on tour this week, using his annual fund-raising ''Pollie Pedal'' bike ride to do off-Broadway renditions of his ''no tax'' gig all the way down the NSW coast.

The Herald spoke to the owner of Russell's Meats, Russell Greenwood, who confirmed his annual power bill. It would in fact go up by $4000 a year under the 18 per cent price rises that were predicted for the first two years of the Rudd government's carbon pollution reduction scheme.

For Greenwood, that is undoubtedly a significant extra cost. But he also told us his rough annual turnover, which allowed us to calculate that in order to pass on all that extra cost to his consumers, he would have to raise his prices by about 0.187 per cent.

For Greenwood's customers in Coffs Harbour that would mean T-bone steak at $22 a kilo would now cost … wait for it … . $22.04. Minced meat at $11 a kilo would now cost $11.02.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...arbon-price-doesnt-add-up-20110408-1d7fw.html

 

[trainspotter]

Flannery nailed it for me when he claimed it would take 1000 years for the temperature to drop marginally IF the whole world introduced a price on carbon or reduction of outut of pollutants or whatever you want to call it?

Not so long ago the crusade was for the evil CFC's and the damage they were doing to the ozone. What has happened to that ??? Billions spent and GUESS WHAT ??? The hole in the ozone has got bigger. DOH !!

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Everyone here likes to bang on about Labors position on Carbon, OK no beef about this but what is the alternative

Short memory IFocus. In 2009 it was in fact the liberals (under Turnbull) that were on the ETS band wagon with labor - Immense public pressure changed that.

Suggesting that everyone is banging on labor regarding the proposed Carbon Dioxide tax is flawed - the liberals would quite happily push such a tax, esp if Turnbull or like minded liberals were given another chance at the top job.

You're also forgetting that there is a global push to create a "Super Global Organism" - whoever is in power will have a mandate to achieve this or similar goals, whether thru taxes or other means.

IMO, almost all the parties have forcibly removed the notion that Government exists to serve the people.

 

[sails]

Everyone here likes to bang on about Labors position on Carbon, OK no beef about this but what is the alternative

Lenore Taylor who is run down here as a Labor stooge (not even close however she is a smart girl who looks at the numbers) writes a interesting article about the cliams by Abbott.

Shock horror it doesn't add up.

"Abbott's beef on carbon price doesn't add up"


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...arbon-price-doesnt-add-up-20110408-1d7fw.html

When Ms Gillard herself doesn't seem to know much about the effect of this carbon tax, how can Lenore Taylor possibly know?

It doesn't appear that she considered the ripple effect of Ms Gillard's tax. If people are paying higher prices for essential services, they may not buy as much from Russell's Butchery. In which case, they will need to recoup their extra $4000 in electricity costs by increasing prices further.

Also, the butcher may find his costs of purchasing beef become higher as the cows produce their own contribution to co2...lol. Lenore is only looking at the butcher's shop and not at the increased costs further back in the production line.

In any case, why try to reduce carbon emissions by a tiny fraction of a percent and cause all these headaches? I think that compensation is going to be a very complex affair to implement and, going by labor's track record, this may end up a bungled nightmare.

 

[drsmith]

With regards to signs and protests, note the sign behind Wayne Swan at about the 35 second mark.



That, if it came to pass, wouldn't do the economy a lot of good.

 

[IFocus]

Short memory IFocus. In 2009 it was in fact the liberals (under Turnbull) that were on the ETS band wagon with labor - Immense public pressure changed that.

No it wasn't, (IMHO) it was about the right regaining control of the Liberal party via Abbott who won with one vote.
Turnbull refused to run a negative campaign, this was / is political suicide for a opposition leader as such campaigns pretty much always galvanize the party base i.e. Keatings big new tax and win elections.

It was simply Turnbulls political lack of experience that he stuck to a principle rather than play politics and other players in the party took advantage of the situation the rest as they say is history.

Suggesting that everyone is banging on labor regarding the proposed Carbon Dioxide tax is flawed - the liberals would quite happily push such a tax, esp if Turnbull or like minded liberals were given another chance at the top job.

Nothing to do with Turnbull the Liberal party due to public pressure have a policy position that climate change is caused by man and they have a policy to deal with climate change by giving away zillions to the major emitters.

Again this is like labors position a transitional vehicle to a ETS.

Neither on their own will do much.

 

[Knobby22]

Flannery nailed it for me when he claimed it would take 1000 years for the temperature to drop marginally IF the whole world introduced a price on carbon or reduction of outut of pollutants or whatever you want to call it?

Not so long ago the crusade was for the evil CFC's and the damage they were doing to the ozone. What has happened to that ??? Billions spent and GUESS WHAT ??? The hole in the ozone has got bigger. DOH !!

The Ozone hole is now slowly shrinking. The whole world would be slowly dying by now!
Imagine if we had done nothing! Just because it takes a long time to go back to status quo doesn't mean we should do nothing and keep pumping out the CFCs! double DOH!

http://www.theozonehole.com/cfcno.htm
http://www.theozonehole.com/ozoneholehistory.htm

 

[joea]

Alan Jones radio suggests the Carbon Tax is more about funding the $590 million that Greg Combet signed off in Mexico to fast start a fund to reduce climate change.

It pretty obvious that the Australian people have not heard about this, or have they.?

The carbon tax is drowning in dishonestry, and its about time that the details are made clear.
It is obvious that Gillard and Combet are "trying to scare the hell out of people" .

Their explaination lack conviction and reeks of dishonestry.

But then what else would you expect from Juliar.?

 

[startrader]

The Ozone hole is now slowly shrinking. The whole world would be slowly dying by now!
Imagine if we had done nothing! Just because it takes a long time to go back to status quo doesn't mean we should do nothing and keep pumping out the CFCs! double DOH!

http://www.theozonehole.com/cfcno.htm
http://www.theozonehole.com/ozoneholehistory.htm

The fact that the ozone hole is shrinking has very little to do with us and probably a lot to do with the activity of the sun.

 

[trainspotter]

The Ozone hole is now slowly shrinking. The whole world would be slowly dying by now!
Imagine if we had done nothing! Just because it takes a long time to go back to status quo doesn't mean we should do nothing and keep pumping out the CFCs! double DOH!

http://www.theozonehole.com/cfcno.htm
http://www.theozonehole.com/ozoneholehistory.htm

Data from NASA's Earth-observing Aura satellite show that the ozone hole peaked in size on Sept. 13,2007 reaching a maximum area extent of 9.7 million square miles(24.7Area (million sq. km)) * just larger than the size of North America. That's "pretty average," says Paul Newman, an atmospheric scientist at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, when compared to the area of ozone holes measured over the last 15 years. Still, the extent this year was "very big," he says, compared to 1970s when the hole did not yet exist.

Just gotta love the techobabble ............. "very big" and "pretty average" indeed !

In 2009, the ozone hole reached its 10th largest measured size since careful measurements began in 1979.The daily maximum ozone hole area for 2009 was 24 million km² on 17 September.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm shrinking? Looking at the data it seems to run a biannual eclipse cycle. Let's hope it is decreasing but it seems to have a fair bit to do with weather.

During its initial stages, the ozone hole was much smaller than has been usual for August, but it grew rapidly as stratospheric clouds were exposed to sunlight. It covered over 25 million square kilometres in mid September, about the same as last year and remained at around 24 million square kilometres until early October. It is now around 14 million square kilometres, which is the largest on record for this time of year.

http://www.theozonehole.com/ozoneholehistory.htm

Anyhooooooooooo ......... Back on topic.

THE federal budget won't be worth the paper it's printed on if it doesn't include all the details of Labor's carbon tax, federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says.

Mr Abbott says in about four weeks the 2011/12 budget papers will be in the printing process.

"If those budget documents do not contain all the details of the carbon tax, the budget will not be worth the paper that it's printed upon," Mr Abbott said today.

"This is an important budget.

"It's important that this government gets it right, but any budget without the carbon tax is a budget with a hole at its heart."

Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey, who joined Mr Abbott at his media conference, said the carbon tax and the mining tax were slated to start on the very same day in 2012.

"The mining tax will be in the budget, the carbon tax will not be in the budget," he said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...ails-says-abbott/story-e6frf7kf-1226037239732

And neither will be the cost of the NBN??