Labor's carbon tax lie

[sails]

Here's more So_Cynical - a UN IPCC official admits that climate policy is a means of wealth redistribution:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-we-redistribute-worlds-wealth-climate-policy

As such, this man is a huge player in advancing this theory, and he has now made it quite clear - as folks on the realist side of this debate have been saying for years - that this is actually an international economic scheme designed to redistribute wealth.

 

[Logique]

http://www.fabian.org.au/985.asp?eventId=2518
Australian Fabians

Victorian Annual Dinner - Ross Garnaut
This is an Australian Fabians event.

RSVP for this Event

Event date: Thursday, 18 August 2011
Location: William Angliss Training Restaurand, Little Lonsdale St
Melbourne
VIC
Time: 6.30 for 7.00 pm start
Phone: 0438213532
Email: vicevents@fabian.org.au

Professor Ross Garnaut will address the Victorian Annual Dinner.
Given the time between now and then, no specific theme has been decided, however, as the current government policy reverts back to much of what he proposed in his report we are sure there will be plenty to reflect on by August.

Places are limited to 150, so this advance notice to those checking our web site is a bonus.

Cost: Members, $55
Students, concessions $50
Non-members $65

 

[Calliope]

You people do actually understand the whole concept of inevitability..don't you?

You actually understand the concept of gullibility...don't you?

http://www.kgbanswers.com/what-is-the-meaning-of-gullibility/1585350

 

[mexican]

Amazing, denial in the face of inevitability....i can only assume that you people don't actually understand what your posting about (not a true understanding anyway), other than you don't like it....this is 2 decades in the making, its the denial of this reality that finds us in the current predicament we are in.

If by some chance this action doesn't get up then it just delays the inevitable...and compounds the economic damage which has already had a decade of compounding.

You people do actually understand the whole concept of inevitability..don't you?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inevitability
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/inevitability

Are you a Professor in climate or the enviroment?
I certainly am not nor do I think most of us are on this thread!
What the issue is here is that scientists think in probabilities not 100% proof. Exactly the way we think with trading and as you know we get the weight of evidence in our favour to make a decision to buy/sell. Now with climate change there is too much conflicting signals to make a decision....infact it is a very grey area that carbon is causing climate change.
With the carbon tax, it has been stated by the people that want to inflict this upon us that it will not change the climate but move people to more alternatives.
Well in the real world, mine and I would say your living budget has increased 30% to 40% in the last 5 years not including a mortgage just living....what ever happened to CPI? A lot of people don't have 5,10 to 30k to spend on solar and so on, because disposable income is getting less and less.
Australia is becoming a very expensive country to live in and only going to get worse. With food going up, petrol and then slam a few interest rates on top of that...it aint looking pretty.
Think about it.........if we were to remove everything in our house that was made from fossil fuel or fossil fuel was needed to make that product we will be sitting on the dirt block naked. Not as easy as they say is it?
To me all this is a tax grab nothing more, I don't deny that there might be climate change but is it us or mother nature going through a cycle. Evolution......the world's landscape has changed over the millions of years through wind,rain,earth quakes, volcanic activity and so on and there will be no tax on earth that will stop it from changing in the next million years.
Alarmists or extremists I think not.......just people that see this as a very grey area.
Go to post 334 and read the last sentence on page 4. Sums it up!

 

[IFocus]

Have seen a leaked memo from the oppositions instructions to its MPs regarding climate change and in fact every thing else the other day.

"Just say no"

 

[IFocus]

Are you a Professor in climate or the enviroment?
I certainly am not nor do I think most of us are on this thread!
What the issue is here is that scientists think in probabilities not 100% proof. Exactly the way we think with trading and as you know we get the weight of evidence in our favour to make a decision to buy/sell. Now with climate change there is too much conflicting signals to make a decision....infact it is a very grey area that carbon is causing climate change.
With the carbon tax, it has been stated by the people that want to inflict this upon us that it will not change the climate but move people to more alternatives.
Well in the real world, mine and I would say your living budget has increased 30% to 40% in the last 5 years not including a mortgage just living....what ever happened to CPI? A lot of people don't have 5,10 to 30k to spend on solar and so on, because disposable income is getting less and less.
Australia is becoming a very expensive country to live in and only going to get worse. With food going up, petrol and then slam a few interest rates on top of that...it aint looking pretty.
Think about it.........if we were to remove everything in our house that was made from fossil fuel or fossil fuel was needed to make that product we will be sitting on the dirt block naked. Not as easy as they say is it?
To me all this is a tax grab nothing more, I don't deny that there might be climate change but is it us or mother nature going through a cycle. Evolution......the world's landscape has changed over the millions of years through wind,rain,earth quakes, volcanic activity and so on and there will be no tax on earth that will stop it from changing in the next million years.
Alarmists or extremists I think not.......just people that see this as a very grey area.
Go to post 334 and read the last sentence on page 4. Sums it up!

The problem is I think is (as pointed out by some one else on the thread before) that the subject has become a political argument rather than a science discussion and progression of prove and disprove.

The science will not be proven until the actual event happens unfortunately. The continued request of certainty people need to gain surety before committing to a position is to some degree a misunderstanding of the process and discovery process of science its self.

The science says man contributes to climate change to me a no brainer, quantification of the amount and the future is not so easy but a simple principle is undeniable it will become greater.

In Australia's case we have cut down more than 2/3 of our tree cover and burn energy at a increasingly alarming rate, partying like its never going to end and that we don't need to behave like audits.

This is not only being repeated around the world but on a much greater scale at an exponential rate.

We are just starting to see a break in the generations as the older dole budging, welfare is my right , hand outs rip off, I deserved a higher pension screw the younger generation mob vers the young up and coming inheritance of a screwed up planet mob who are just starting to wake up to what their future is starting to look like.

Hopefully we can start to see riots in the streets like the 60's would'nt that be ironical.

There are now a lot of people in the climate area that no longer engage in the public discourse as the lunatic fringe from both sides distort and cherry pick the evidence.

 

[sails]

Have seen a leaked memo from the oppositions instructions to its MPs regarding climate change and in fact every thing else the other day.

"Just say no"

I somehow doubt that came from a memo - most likely more of a sarcastic remark as a swipe against the opposition...

 

[Julia]

This is the best I have found so far since Julia said it was in the Australian, although it doesn't have a link to the actual memo and only discusses it, so probably not a lot of use:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-deceives-public/story-fn59niix-1226027707911

No, that wasn't it, Sails. The article I remember reading listed all the ridiculous phrases MP's were told to trot out.
e.g. if we do not have this carbon tax "there will be more floods", "there will be more bushfires", "there will be more extremes of temperature", ditto other scary sounding stuff. There were eight or ten all up.

The problem is I think is (as pointed out by some one else on the thread before) that the subject has become a political argument rather than a science discussion and progression of prove and disprove.

That's true but the public cannot be blamed for this, given the lack of accurate information offered by the government.

In Australia's case we have cut down more than 2/3 of our tree cover

Correct, and this continues. We should instead be planting more trees.

partying like its never going to end and that we don't need to behave like audits.

Behave like audits???

We are just starting to see a break in the generations as the older dole budging, welfare is my right , hand outs rip off, I deserved a higher pension screw the younger generation mob vers the young up and coming inheritance of a screwed up planet mob who are just starting to wake up to what their future is starting to look like.

Oh, for god's sake can't you leave out this stupid generalisation about whole generations all over again. It makes no sense and you should know that.

 

[sails]

No, that wasn't it, Sails. The article I remember reading listed all the ridiculous phrases MP's were told to trot out.
e.g. if we do not have this carbon tax "there will be more floods", "there will be more bushfires", "there will be more extremes of temperature", ditto other scary sounding stuff. There were eight or ten all up.

I did quite a few google searches and couldn't find it anywhere. Perhaps the PM has ordered it banned...

Oh, for god's sake can't you leave out this stupid generalisation about whole generations all over again. It makes no sense and you should know that.

May IFocus has been reading Ms Gillards memos...lol

 

[IFocus]

Behave like audits???

Typo mean to say "Adults"

Oh, for god's sake can't you leave out this stupid generalisation about whole generations all over again. It makes no sense and you should know that.:

Talking about adults if you have an argument on the issue could you just make it with out all finger pointing?

 

[joea]

Ladies and Gentleman.

What we are all suffering from at the moment is the half baked policy of a "dictatorial"
female Prime Minister.
She is running on an "ego trip" as she said many time, "as the Prime Minister I have decided".
Well she maybe the current PM, but she is not a team player.
She never gives credit to anybody in her government.

So I suggest you "take five " have a think, and wait for her to "implode".

She does not realise it, but she will be remembered as "Australian first female PM"
to almost wreck its economy.

We will be picking up the pieces, while she will be history.

And I and many more will be looking forward to it.

Cheers

 

[IFocus]

I somehow doubt that came from a memo - most likely more of a sarcastic remark as a swipe against the opposition...

Sails an attempt at humor I don't have any where near GG's connections

 

[sails]

Sails an attempt at humor I don't have any where near GG's connections

Yes, probably a rather poor attempt at humor, however, the thought was prompted by your earlier post about an opposition memo which may not have existed...

Even so, I am often mystified at the seemingly co-ordinated fashion that many labor supporters seem to attack the opposition with a particular line of propaganda. I sometimes wonder if the propaganda is given out by email or text. The same propaganda can usually found elsewhere in the internet and not just at ASF.

 

[Smurf1976]

Doesn't look like Japan will be cutting emissions anytime soon (apart from temporarily due to tsunami-related issues).

http://www.electricalworld.com.au/onestory.php?idNum=1696

More than 132,000MW of Japan’s coal-fired plants have been built in the last 10 years and 82,000MW in the 10 to 20-year-old timeframe.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Another one bites the dust

I wonder if the "we have to be seen to be doing something" crowd should ride their bikes, sorry, I mean fly first class to France - the 5th largest economy in the world...to, um, save the world...

France ditches carbon tax as social protests mount

....President Nicolas Sarkozy on Tuesday scrapped the country's proposed carbon tax and reshuffled his cabinet in populist tilt after suffering a crushing electoral defeat over the weekend, when his Gaulliste UMP party lost every region other than in its bastion of Alsace and the Indian Ocean island of Reunion.

....The government said its energy tax was being postponed indefinitely in order not to "damage the competitiveness of French companies", fearing that it would be too risky for France to go it alone without the rest of the EU. Brussels has announced plans for an EU-wide tax, but the initiative already looks doomed.​

Quickly now, we must convince Stakozy to place a carbon tax back on the agenda as the world is at a "tipping point" (still).

Just waiting for this CO2 nonsense and obvious tax grab to melt away.

 

[Julia]

Typo mean to say "Adults"

Oh, I thought you might have meant 'idiots'.

Talking about adults if you have an argument on the issue could you just make it with out all finger pointing?

No. The finger pointing was absolutely intentional. You are the one making stupid generalisations so you are the one to whom my comment was directed.
Stop making silly remarks and no one will challenge you on them.

 

[todster]

I wonder if the "we have to be seen to be doing something" crowd should ride their bikes, sorry, I mean fly first class to France - the 5th largest economy in the world...to, um, save the world...

France ditches carbon tax as social protests mount

....President Nicolas Sarkozy on Tuesday scrapped the country's proposed carbon tax and reshuffled his cabinet in populist tilt after suffering a crushing electoral defeat over the weekend, when his Gaulliste UMP party lost every region other than in its bastion of Alsace and the Indian Ocean island of Reunion.

....The government said its energy tax was being postponed indefinitely in order not to "damage the competitiveness of French companies", fearing that it would be too risky for France to go it alone without the rest of the EU. Brussels has announced plans for an EU-wide tax, but the initiative already looks doomed.​

Quickly now, we must convince Stakozy to place a carbon tax back on the agenda as the world is at a "tipping point" (still).

Just waiting for this CO2 nonsense and obvious tax grab to melt away.

Tuesday when March 2010 LOL
France are part of the EU emission trading scheme.
Under the scheme CO2 is capped at 133m tonnes pa
The scheme has been running for 7years.

 

[joea]

Hi.
The Australian makes some comparisons of our carbon tax scheme to the EU today.

If a cabon tax of $25/ tonne is implemented in Australia, it will raise more revenue in 3 months, than the EU's system in 6 years.
The EU has a population 500 million with 14% of global emissions.
Australia produces 1.4% of the global emissions.
The EU"s economy is 16 times Australia,s.

So by reading this article(and if the maths is correct), Labor is attempting to produce the biggest rip off from the Australian taxpayers ever compiled.

Makes you wonder how our economy will cope, if it is implemented.

Cheers

 

[Logique]

A few facts are like a hot knife through butter in all this.

On ABC Insiders on Sunday, Bolt brought Lenore Taylor back to it again and again, by how many degrees will the carbon tax change the temps? Lenore simply could not or would not answer, finally telling Bolt, on air, to 'piss off'.

Not very 'audit' of her.

 

[ghotib]

A few facts are like a hot knife through butter in all this.

On ABC Insiders on Sunday, Bolt brought Lenore Taylor back to it again and again, by how many degrees will the carbon tax change the temps? Lenore simply could not or would not answer, finally telling Bolt, on air, to 'piss off'.

Not very 'audit' of her.

On the ABC Insiders that I saw, Bolt interrupted, talked over, and ignored every attempt Lenore Taylor made to answer him.

Not very objective of him.