Labor's carbon tax lie

[sails]

...The Treasury modelling apparently also conceded that the tax would not result in Australia being able to meet its reduction targets. So, um, what's the point???

Isn't the point wealth distribution to placate the mid to low income earners which Gillard is hoping will translate into labor votes at the next election?

I can't see that it has anything much to do with carbon reduction. Ms Gillard must think Aussies are a stupid lot...lol

Interesting polls from: http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/essential-report/

Support for the Government’s carbon pricing scheme has fallen over the last 2 weeks. 34% now support the scheme and 51% are opposed.

 

[So_Cynical]

Ratification of Kyoto has been followed by a jump in fossil fuel use.

Now, if a Protocol to reduce the use of fossil fuels results in an increase then I'd call that a failure unless, of course, the real objective of the Protocol was something other than that which has been stated.

If Kyoto was even remotely effective then we wouldn't be building new coal export capacity and the like to cope with increased demand.

I agree Kyoto has been a near total failure, it is very much a compromise agreement, a first step requiring very little real commitments by global governments and yet has been a near total failure.

However it remains at the core of global GHG abatement activity's and initiatives...i never for a moment suggested Kyoto was a successful agreement and never have.

 

[noco]

The Libs will need to jump all over this before the government comes out with its compensation package, and then they will need to be reminding the electorate that that compensation will need to increase 4% p.a. to keep pace with the increase in the tax.

$863 is going to be a significant amount to people already struggling to pay their bills.

The Treasury modelling apparently also conceded that the tax would not result in Australia being able to meet its reduction targets. So, um, what's the point???

Julia, this inept Gillard/Rudd/Swan Labor Governemnt gave us all a loan $900 in 2008 to spend on gambling and what ever else some people wasted it on and are now they asking for it back in one year of a 'CARBON DIOXIDE TAX'.($863). But don't be silly says the 'GOOSE', it's not going to come out of your pay packet. Oh yeah.
This is typical of Labor Government both Federal and state.

 

[sails]

Below is an interview with US Professor John Christy who agrees that climate is always changing but that carbon tax will be like "spitting in the ocean".

http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=8563


Although labor harp on with religious fervour about the "necessity" of carbon tax, it appears to be increasingly obvious that carbon tax is not about climate change and, IMO, appears to be designed to score votes for labor at the next election via wealth distribution potentially as follows.

1. Tax the big polluters
2. Big polluters pass it on to all consumers (plus profit margin?)
3. Labor compensate low to mid income earners
4. Low to mid income earners now like labor's handouts
5. Labor gets re-elected
6. Labor removes compensation (are any election promises kept?)

I agree with John Christy that this tax has the potential to do enormous damage to this country while doing next to nothing for carbon. China and USA, who do not have a carbon tax, produce around 40% of world carbon and Australia is around 1%. Ludicrous...

If this is not so, would a labor supporter care to explain what this major and potentially damaging change to our tax system is going to achieve now that it is becomming abundantly clear that it will do bugger all for climage change or carbon emissions?

 

[Calliope]

I agree Kyoto has been a near total failure, it is very much a compromise agreement, a first step requiring very little real commitments by global governments and yet has been a near total failure.

However it remains at the core of global GHG abatement activity's and initiatives...i never for a moment suggested Kyoto was a successful agreement and never have.

It was just one of Rudd's symbolic gestures...signifying nothing.

 

[J&M]

Great post Sails

very information interview with John Christy
everyone should listen to this

Ross Garnaut is an economist NOT a climate change scientist
Commissioned by Juliar to sell the Labour climate tax !!!

James

 

[Logique]

The two carbon tax rallies in Sydney today : http://www.smh.com.au/environment/c...or-and-against-carbon-tax-20110402-1cs36.html

Trust GetUp! to organize a competing rally. Compare the two rally pictures, see the demographics - it says much. Also see how professionally prepared the GetUp! rally placards look.

Ten interviewed some pro-tax rally attendees, it was a young couple with a baby each. We should pay this tax they said, as if the middle class welfare gravy train would run forever. With no evidence behind the claim, Ten claimed a larger number at the GetUp! rally. It didn't seem that way to me on the tv.

 

[Logique]

Below is an interview with US Professor John Christy who agrees that climate is always changing but that carbon tax will be like "spitting in the ocean".
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=8563...I agree with John Christy that this tax has the potential to do enormous damage to this country while doing next to nothing for carbon. China and USA, who do not have a carbon tax, produce around 40% of world carbon and Australia is around 1%. Ludicrous.....

So much for the global consensus on the science. A trickle of scientists has become a flood, ever more of them coming out against this sham. John Christy was on the IPCC for goodness sake. Notice how it's always the established and senior ones, the professors, who speak out. Wouldn't be that the junior scientists are afraid to speak would it?

If you had asked me two years ago about a carbon tax - I would have said exactly what John Christy has just said, if he quantifies it better on the numbers.

The Australian people don't like to be hoodwinked, and especially not by their government. This is very bad for Labor.

 

[drsmith]

One of the points raised at the Perth "No Carbon Tax" protest was the assumption of increased water vapor as a consequence of CO2 warming and it's impact on warming in global climate models.

http://www.appinsys.com/GlobalWarming/WaterVapor.htm

http://www.theclimatescam.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/paltridgearkingpook.pdf

 

[drsmith]

Interesting article from the ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45810.html

Last week someone leaked the Labor party’s “talking points memo” on the Prime Minister’s proposed carbon tax. The memo, coupled with diametrically opposed messaging from the government illustrates what a mess the Prime Minister has gotten herself and her government into on carbon policy.

For instance, the talking point memo instructs MPs to scare their constituents, “If we don't act then we will see more extreme weather events like bushfires and droughts.” Yet, Professor Tim Flannery, tapped by the government to help advocate for the carbon tax, explained on talkback radio quite rightly that even concerted global action on carbon would not have detectable effects on the global average measurements of climate system until the latter part of this century. Setting up one’s party to be contradicted by their chief scientific spokesman is not good politics.

Is there a link somewhere to the actual memo ?

 

[Smurf1976]

$863 is going to be a significant amount to people already struggling to pay their bills.

You live in Queensland if I recall correctly. Another very well known member of this forum lives in Adelaide. I live in Hobart. Others here live in all states of Australia and some overseas as well.

We'll all have very different emissions profiles due to various factors ranging from hobbies through to local climate through to what energy sources we actually have available to us at home.

Now, how is government possibly going to work this compensation scheme given that practically nobody will face exactly a $863 cost increase? Some will probably be $200, others perhaps $2000.

My neighbour uses electric cooking and hot water with a heat pump for space heating in the main living area, plus electric heating downstairs. They drive a medium sized car every day.

I cook mostly with LPG, have heat pump hot water, get some of my electricity from solar, and use about 50/50 electric and wood for heating the house, plus a bit of oil for downstairs. I have a smaller 4 cyl car and some weeks I don't even start the engine.

Now, anyone like to work out how to compensate both me and my neighbour? This isn't as simple as it sounds...

 

[kingcarmleo]

Tax won't make it in imo.

 

[sails]

Tax won't make it in imo.

Let's hope so. Perhaps there will be a new thread soon "Carbon Tax Scrapped"...

But then it might be replaced with an even worse hare brained scheme to put more money into revenue courtesy of "Australian Working Families".

 

[drsmith]

Now, anyone like to work out how to compensate both me and my neighbour? This isn't as simple as it sounds...

Treasury wants to dish out any compansation in the form of cash handouts.

That's nice and simple for them, and temporary.

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-ma...sury-sees-modest-inflation-impact-from-carbon

 

[drsmith]

Tax won't make it in imo.

The wheels seem to be looking increasingly wobbly.

 

[Julia]

Interesting article from the ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45810.html



Is there a link somewhere to the actual memo ?

I read it in "The Australian" either last Wednesday or last weekend.
Sorry I don't still have those papers.
Many examples were given of the pat phrases MP's were instructed to repeat wherever possible, all designed to scare the bejesus out of the ignorant, however illogical they are.

The article also said MP's were told to quote these same phrases to the media whenever questioned about climate change/carbon tax.

We can only hope the majority of the electorate are smart enough to see through this rubbish.

Smurf: good point about assessing who needs what compensation. It's yet another point of irritation to me that we have eg Garnaut and/or Treasury making these pronouncements down to the last dollar (eg $863).

 

[sails]

Interesting article from the ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45810.html



Is there a link somewhere to the actual memo ?

This is the best I have found so far since Julia said it was in the Australian, although it doesn't have a link to the actual memo and only discusses it, so probably not a lot of use:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-deceives-public/story-fn59niix-1226027707911

 

[So_Cynical]

Tax won't make it in imo.

Let's hope so. Perhaps there will be a new thread soon "Carbon Tax Scrapped".

The wheels seem to be looking increasingly wobbly.

Amazing, denial in the face of inevitability....i can only assume that you people don't actually understand what your posting about (not a true understanding anyway), other than you don't like it....this is 2 decades in the making, its the denial of this reality that finds us in the current predicament we are in.

If by some chance this action doesn't get up then it just delays the inevitable...and compounds the economic damage which has already had a decade of compounding.

You people do actually understand the whole concept of inevitability..don't you?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inevitability
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/inevitability

 

[drsmith]

Amazing, denial in the face of inevitability....i can only assume that you people don't actually understand what posting about, other than you don't like it....this is 2 decades in the making, its the denial of this reality that finds us in the current predicament we are in.

And what predicament is that ?

Kevin Rudd getting the boot ?

 

[sails]

Amazing, denial in the face of inevitability....i can only assume that you people don't actually understand what posting about, other than you don't like it....this is 2 decades in the making, its the denial of this reality that finds us in the current predicament we are in.

If by some chance this action doesn't get up then it just delays the inevitable...and compounds the economic damage which has already had a decade of compounding.

You people do actually understand the whole concept of inevitability..don't you?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inevitability
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/inevitability

Delaying the inevitable of nothing means nothing will be delayed...

Two decades of drumming up the money scam of the century? It's worse than anything we've seen on current affair, IMO. Trying to rip people off for something that is not likely to do an ounce of good?

Did you listen to the interview with Professor Christy? I think you will find he has a lot more credentials than Garnaut or Flannery put together. It would seem much smarter to get the information from those who are adequately qualified.

http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=8563

Or as a denier of reality, do you choose not to listen?
Or do you only read Ms Gillard's memos of allowed labor propoganda?