Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Labor's carbon tax lie

Jump to new
noco said:
Broken promise by Gillard on a caron dioxide tax may prove to be fatal.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-can-prove-fatal/story-e6frg6zo-1226018638050
Click to expand...
I like this one,

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ith-a-difference/story-e6frezz0-1226016351384

More ominously, it emphasises the growing public view that this Labor Government is bright Green on the inside, and that Gillard is sharing the steering wheel with everyone from Bob Brown, Adam Bandt and Christine Milne to independents Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor.
Click to expand...
There's little room for Julia's hands on the wheel with that lot intoxicated with power.
 
noco said:
Here is an interesting interview with Jill Duggan. Jill is the European Commission of Directorate General of Climate Change.


http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai...nts/dont_know_the_cost_dont_know_if_it_works/
Click to expand...
I didn't read all of it, but read enough to see how useless the whole discussion becomes when opposing viewpoints become so polarised.

Jill Duggan is perhaps responding to the questions from a somewhat different perspective from what they are being asked.

Being a global species, we need to manage our impact on the planet as a whole. Just because all the detail isnot known doesn't mean we should do nothing.

A big problem here is conflicting objectives that are either neutral or even detrimental to solving any underlying problem. Labor for example see this as a social redistribution of wealth and the Greens want to turn us into a society of Ewoks. The big global banks too wouldn't mind something new on which to speculate other people's money.
 
noco said:
Here are some interesting questions put to JULIAR by Tim Blair (Daily Telegraph)!!! I would be delighted to read her response. http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...dailytelegraph/comments/one_or_two_questions/
Click to expand...
Brilliant piece by Blair, absolutely nails it. Every Australian elector should read this. Hadn't heard it before, but Oakeschott described as the 'Hairy Princess' very funny.

Very telling the question that asks with heavy irony:
If taxing Australians at a certain level will make us more competitive with the rest of the world, as you claim, then surely taxing us at even higher levels will make us more competitive still. Universal taxation at, say, 80 per cent should make us a global powerhouse. Why are you holding Australia back?
Click to expand...
 
drsmith said:
A big problem here is conflicting objectives that are either neutral or even detrimental to solving any underlying problem. Labor for example see this as a social redistribution of wealth and the Greens want to turn us into a society of Ewoks. The big global banks too wouldn't mind something new on which to speculate other people's money.
Click to expand...
You've hit the nail on the head there. Just about everything in this debate has some objective other than protection of the natural environment.

Socialism, financial speculation, construction of specific alternative energy systems, profiting from investments already made and so on. Very, very few are really focussed on the scientific issues at hand.:2twocents
 
Thanks for the link Noco. Yes, it's quite remarkable that Labor doesn't seem to learn the basics of marketing an idea. They have botched this so badly that it's hard to imagine their recovery from it.

In ABC Radio's "PM" program this evening, the following item was interesting.
The Professor concerned would appear to have equal gravitas to Prof Garnaut and has a completely different view, in that he does not believe any pricing of carbon or an ETS will have any material effect on climate change, he seems unconvinced any change in climate is anthropogenically driven, and says instead we should rather be thinking of strategies to allow us to live with increased greenhouse gases.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3161870.htm

Before this, there was an item about Nick Minchin's outright denial of anthropogenic climate change. Whenever I hear Mr Minchin speak as forthrightly as he does, I wonder why he has never been suggested as a leader of the Libs. Any ideas?
Is it because he's a Senator? Is that a barrier?
 
I think the Mining Tax was less controversy and easier to live with in the eyes of many.

I'm hoping this tax will never see the light of day. The rational is pathetic.

If they focus on pollution, that would get much better acceptance, but alarmist CO2 emissions and Global Warming is an extremist abuse of science. What many people fail to realise is the higher the CO2 levels the better plants grow. They take in CO2 and give off Oxygen.

CO2 levels are a bit cyclical anyway with the frozen northern winter making many plants dormant and not taking in CO2 until the spring thaw. Then volcanos and hot springs etc periodically spew huge amounts into the atmosphere. Who are they going to penalise with a tax for that... God! :rolleyes:

The QDPI has arranged a Carbon Footprint Workshop in my area for next week for Horticulture and Cane growers to update how carbon trading credits may affect Horticulture and Sugar.

I'm not going to waste my time.
 
Whiskers said:
. Then volcanos and hot springs etc periodically spew huge amounts into the atmosphere. Who are they going to penalise with a tax for that... God! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that our bushfires etc are included in that oft repeated statement that "Australia has the world's largest per capita emissions".

So, to answer your question about who is supposed to pay for that, we are, Whiskers, we are!

All any reasonable person would want the government to do is to state clearly the exact results on 'climate change' whatever level of carbon tax (which will impact on the standard of living of all of us) will actually have on the climate.

Simple question really. Just say: 'this price levied on everyone will result in .........".
If they can't do that they have no business even considering it.
 
The following is an online letter. I'd be interested in the comments of any of the government's acolytes on what it says.

The hubris in the idea that a carbon tax in Australia will have any effect at all on the world's climate! Let's think for a moment - less than 5% of C02 comes from fossil fuel burning; Australia produces less than 2% of the total C02 from human activity; this tax is intended to reduce C02 output by 5% by 2020. And somehow inroducing this tax will save the world? Noone else is or will introduce a tax like this. Cap and trade markets whereever they exist are falling over. Every "green job" in germany cost the taxpyer there over 170,000 euros in subsidies, every "green job" in Spain cost 2.2 real jobs. California is nearly bankrupt, the New Hampshire legislature just voted to get out of a ten state C02 trading system, the EPA in the US has no constitutional power to enforce anything the congress won't allow it to, Japan will not ratify Kyoto. But somehow we know something the rest of the world doesn't?
Click to expand...
 
Julia said:
The following is an online letter. I'd be interested in the comments of any of the government's acolytes on what it says.
Click to expand...

Labors position on the tax is quite clear now could you or the liberal acolytes please explain the oppositions carbon tax?

Remember there is total agreement policy wise in the Parliament that climate change is man made and requires action.
 
With nuclear power now almost certainly off the agenda in Australia and many other countries following the situation in Japan, that's another rather large blow to the whole carbon thing worldwide. :2twocents
 
IFocus said:
Labors position on the tax is quite clear now could you or the liberal acolytes please explain the oppositions carbon tax?

Remember there is total agreement policy wise in the Parliament that climate change is man made and requires action.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the coalition's policy is on the issue, but there are many people who see this as no more than a money scam. Scientists are clearly divided on the issue and it is quite possible that we are simply witnessing longer term climate cycles.

On the news last night, I heard the comment that the earthquake in Japan is the 7th largest on record worldwide. This means there have been even more severe quakes prior to this devastation in Japan long before man made global warming was thought up as a means of raising more revenue, IMO.

I hope the coalition rejects carbon tax as a scam. However, there will be some coalition MPs who have been brainwashed into this whole carbon tax nonsense -so I expect there will be some compromise.

On the other hand, Labor MPs HAVE to toe the line - they appear to have no say which allows their leaders to make stupid decisions on the run without proper consultative processes from those representing their electorates. IMO, this seems to go against the very definition of "democracy".
 
IFocus said:
Labors position on the tax is quite clear now could you or the liberal acolytes please explain the oppositions carbon tax?

Remember there is total agreement policy wise in the Parliament that climate change is man made and requires action.
Click to expand...
But is a carbon tax the right answer to manage atmospheric carbon dioxide ?

Furthermore, is it right in the context of having lied to the electorate about this major tax policy during the election campaign ?

Had John Howard taken Labor's path with the GST, I'm sure you would be jumping up and down.
 
sails said:
I hope the coalition rejects carbon tax as a scam. However, there will be some coalition MPs who have been brainwashed into this whole carbon tax nonsense -so I expect there will be some compromise.
Click to expand...

Abbott is no fool. His solution is a pretend tax for a pretend problem. The warmists say the alternative is to do nothing. An Australian carbon tax would achieve almost the same reduction in CO2 emissions as doing nothing.

As Bjorn Lomberg said today on Land Line if we must have a carbon tax, the money raised should be spent in research on making green energy cheaper than fossil fuel energy. This would take years but do otherwise is to place an impost on our economy with no positive result, and put us at a disadvantage to others.
 
IFocus said:
Labors position on the tax is quite clear now could you or the liberal acolytes please explain the oppositions carbon tax?
Click to expand...
No. It's not my responsibility to explain the opposition's policy on anything.

Can you answer the apparently simple question? How, exactly, will the government's proposed carbon tax alter the climate?

That is the whole point and why there is so much disagreement.


Remember there is total agreement policy wise in the Parliament that climate change is man made and requires action.
Click to expand...
I disagree that there is total agreement across the parliament but that's not the point of what I'm asking you to explain.

Even if we accept that it's within the capacity of human beings to control the level of emissions (which I don't, and neither do an increasing number of others), if you can actually explain how the proposed tax will do this, then I will be happy to go along with it.

Until someone does that, as far as I'm concerned, it's just another tax scam built on a totally false premise.
 

Similar threads

sydboy007
State tax reform
Replies
0
Views
3K
sydboy007
sydboy007
piggybank
Are Australian freight going the same way as our car industry?
Replies
2
Views
3K
Smurf1976
Smurf1976
The Mint Man
Labor Tax Policy, where is it?
6 7 8
Replies
141
Views
21K
greggy
G
R
The American use of War Pretext Incidents
Replies
6
Views
9K
sptrawler
sptrawler
Top