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Keen warns Australia headed for sub-prime crisis

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Australian housing market holds sub-prime danger
By Glenn Milne and Nick Gardner
The Sunday Telegraph
March 22, 2009 12:01am
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+ - Print Email Share Add to MySpace Add to Digg Add to del.icio.us Add to Fark Post to Facebook Add to Kwoff What are these? Australia copying US mistakes
Bankruptcy risk driven by stimulus
"First homebuyers most vulnerable"
AUSTRALIA is facing its own version of the US sub-prime housing crisis, with thousands of young homeowners risking bankruptcy as a result of Kevin Rudd's economic stimulus package.

That is the grim warning from the economic expert who first called the debt crisis that is driving the global financial meltdown.

Dubbing the looming crisis "Sub-Prime Lite," Professor Steve Keen told The Sunday Telegraph Australia was making the same mistakes as the US.

Professor Keen said in trying to avoid an economic crisis caused by too much borrowing, Australia was in effect encouraging the poorest in the community to take on even more debt.

"Yet these low-paid first homebuyers are the people who are most vulnerable to the economic downturn," he said.

The top end of capital cities housing market has been suffering for some time as mass redundancies within the financial sector have forced homeowners to sell.


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Meanwhile, the first-home buyer end of the market has been booming.

But economists fear this flurry of activity at the lower end has inflated prices to unsustainable levels.

In Sydney, the average property already costs nine times the average household income, while the UK and US reached a peak of only seven times average income before their markets crashed.

According to Professor Keen, the First Home Owner Grant has cost the government about $200million, but has inflated property prices by close to $3billion.

"This is all illusionary wealth that could disappear very quickly," he said.

"The additional $2.8billion or so has come from increased mortgage debt taken on by those most vulnerable to a serious economic downturn at a time when we can see very clearly that the global recession is coming our way."

The Government may well extend the first-homebuyer grant beyond its planned end-date of June 30, which Professor Keen says will end up pumping the market to even higher levels.

The University of Western Sydney professor said he had sold his Sydney house because he feared a property crash, but his gloomy view on the market has been backed by other experts.

Gerard Minack, chief economist at Morgan Stanley, said property prices were likely to fall by 20 per cent in some cities, while the value of houses on coastal strips such as the NSW mid-north coast and the Gold Coast could halve.

"People paid Hamptons prices for properties up there but it is not the Hamptons," he said.

"Traditionally what has hurt people has not been rising interest rates but rising unemployment. I don't care what rate you're paying, if you have a mortgage five times your income and you lose your job, you're toast."

Mr Minack said while he understood the motivation behind the grants, encouraging marginal buyers to enter the market at this stage of the cycle (just ahead of a sharp rise in unemployment and with interest rates so low), Australia risked "creating a sub-prime underbelly in our own housing market".

With unemployment currently at just over 5 per cent, many economists are forecasting it will peak at 8-9 per cent in 2010, which will lead to a "bloodbath" in the property market as thousands of mortgagors default on their loans.

Most buyers were also taking out low, variable-rate mortgages, which left them exposed to rapidly rising rates when the economy began to recover and this would also spell trouble for many buyers.
http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,28323,25223797-5013951,00.html
 
hello,

still waiting on my properties to go down 50%, based on an auction a few weeks ago Keen hasnt even got -0.1%

you cant have it both ways, for years you telling people interest rates are going like Japan and now you telling people interest rates are going up agian,

get over it, find a solution for the jealousy

thankyou
robots
 
That is a very long draw on the the bow! But it keeps your name in the paper I suppose. Keen is just upset because it is looking like all his doom and gloom predictions were just hot air.

Yet these low-paid first homebuyers are the people who are most vulnerable to the economic downturn

PS: Who says that just because someone is a FHB that they are "low paid" anyway? That's the whole basis of his opinion in that article. The reality is that Australia has nothing like sub-prime, the banks are prudent in how they assess peoples capacity to repay when they make loans - even more so now than in the past few years, so therefore there is NOTHING like US sub-prime going on in AU. As discussed elsewhere, the potential impact of rising unemployment on the PRICES of houses in Australia is being over-played - we've had rising prices and rising unemployment on several occasions in the past.

All we are seeing now is some of the massive pent up demand for PPOR property kicking in, especially in Sydney, being encouraged by primarily low interest rates, and to a lesser extent by the FHB grant boost.

Cheers,

Beej
 
keen needs publicity to sell his books and papers....how to get cheap free publicity ????
easy ...just say something really outrageous....gets into the news, and its free...sales a bit slow...well keep just keep hammering away

unless of course its an ...aditorial...(editorial not, but an advertisement yes)he pays the advertising fee...and the papers makes it look like its actually news
if he was so smart....why wait until you are 50, to buy your first home, at the top of the market, then have to sell it at the worst possible time...when the market has bottomed ???
so he is back to renting....
and still only an associate professor....
 
This is really pissing me off.

I want to buy a house. But I listen to Keen and hear about all the doom and gloom for house prices in coming months. So keep thinking I will hold off.

Every weekend I find something I like. But the price is right up there, a bit of a stretch. So I think to myself, I'll be able to get this place in a few months time for $50,000+ less. But two weeks later the place has sold for about the original asking price. Happening again and again right now.

I think house prices should come down. They are definitely too high. But the thing is, I am beginning to think they are just not going to.

If Keen is wrong, and I miss the boat, I will feel like suing !
 
As kincella said, Keen needs publicity to fuel his tenureship at University. The more media exposure, the better his package. And the more his book sells. He is at the University of Western Sydney, hardly the font of Economic knowledge. As they say, those who are good, do; those who are not, teach! yeah, I see he is only an Associate too - that means so little in Academic circles. Usually given to people who have just 'been there' for a long period of time.

The main risk I see at the moment is buying a house, getting a mortgage then becoming unemployed. If you can manage that risk somehow, then it seems an ideal time to buy a house. Expect house prices may fall around 10% but hey, that is really not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.
 
This is really pissing me off.

I want to buy a house. But I listen to Keen and hear about all the doom and gloom for house prices in coming months. So keep thinking I will hold off.

Every weekend I find something I like. But the price is right up there, a bit of a stretch. So I think to myself, I'll be able to get this place in a few months time for $50,000+ less. But two weeks later the place has sold for about the original asking price. Happening again and again right now.

I think house prices should come down. They are definitely too high. But the thing is, I am beginning to think they are just not going to.

If Keen is wrong, and I miss the boat, I will feel like suing !

hello,

you should me listening to the kings of ASF man (robots, beej, kincella, techno, kathmandu, BillM etc)

these posters are out there putting in the hard yards and posting honestly on what the situation is,

keep an eye on "house prices to keep rising for years" for informative posts

thankyou
robots
 
The main risk I see at the moment is buying a house, getting a mortgage then becoming unemployed. If you can manage that risk somehow, then it seems an ideal time to buy a house. Expect house prices may fall around 10% but hey, that is really not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.

Blond and Brains.
My sorta gal.
 
If Keen is wrong, and I miss the boat, I will feel like suing !

Is that a joke?

You're basing your property buying on one mans opinion?

While I think property is overpriced I'm unsure of what the catalyst might be to set off a massive deline in prices. The only thing I can think of is massive unemployment of over 15% but if that happens our economy will be in deep dodo and be approaching a depression. But to be honest I really can't see that happening atm, due to our economy so far standing up really well compared to overseas countries. What we could see is a long period of stagnation.

The extreme bearish views by some (which has now become fairly mainstream) will have to be rethought shortly unless we see a massive deterioration of our economy very soon because so far at worst we have only seen a mild recession. While I think the economy is going to contract some more I don't think we will see these extreme bearish views playing out.

I also find it amusing that our economy has stood up really well so far due in part to our banks, this must really hurt some of the bears.
 
if house prices wont go down and its all hunky dory, why is the government spending your and mine tax money to help a first home buyer?

1. perhaps housing is unfordable for a first home buyer ? that was the political impetuous for the first home buyers grant to begin with. now the impetuous is to keep the housing sector employed more so than the grant being used to keep housing affordable for first time buyers. with interest rates lower than when the first home owners grant came out you cant argue its about affordability anymore but propping up the housing industry and house prices. the first home buyers grant was ok when interest rates where maxed out and where going to go down.. but now we are almost at the bottom of the interest rate cycle its eventually going to be an uptrend and will bite new home owners that have borrowed too much..


2. if they are not ALL low wages. (as someone pointed out). then why need the first home owners grant? oh because they are buying something more to match their earnings, but against what, a low interest rate? so when interest rates go up... what then?

3. government funding will always distort a market if the prices fall by the amount of the grant then isn't that the same, financially speaking for the buyer to commit to for their earning power. (supply and demand point made later)


4. the grant does nothing to distinguish a good creditor from a poor creditor in regards to home loans for banks.. saving a deposit shows good money management skills, something a bank cant attain until the fact the creditor is in debt when the deposit is from a government grant. the bank can only attain the borrowers assets, liabilities and paycheck all which have the ability to change...as rapidly as the economy has in the past 6 months.

5. supply and demand dynamics, everyone knows in demand prices go up and with over supply prices go down. by propping up the housing market with the grant its creating a fake demand regarding property price.. there is demand without a doubt but that demand is only there when houses are affordable to the purchaser... pull away the first home owners grant and see how that demand diminishes to an affordable value for a first home buyer.

6.the last point of which gets thrown about .. no one will sell their home for 50k less than what it was valued at 12 months ago... (investors wont unless forced too) but the average jo looking for a sea or suburb change can and will if they are also buying a house that was 50k cheaper than 12 months ago. point is you sell high you buy high.. you sell low you buy low. unfortunately its those that bought high that have to sell low that get burnt but they eventually bring the market values down.



i wouldn't think our housing market is like the american or British.. but the first home buyers grant has its similarities to the subprime crises in distorting a market, mixing up good borrowers from bad borrowers and combined with low interest rates that will go up its all going to end in tears for many over leveraged, and eventual negative equity home buyers..
 
reply to absolutley....you have choices....if you are serious about buying a home...than look in a lower price bracket...something you can afford now....and while interest rates are low
or if you are wanting prices to go lower, than you may have to wait quite awhile...how long to wait I have no idea
there are plenty of affordable houses out there...those homes are not close to the cbd...ie inner city
or look at a unit...they are cheaper...
this GFC is lingering...because all the money that is said to be thrown at the banks,,,has not freed up capital for lending...which seems to be the crux of the problem

I have questions in my mind....if I were in your shoes, would I opt for the affordable house now and then lock in the low interest rates....or would I wait for the prices to come down....and if I wait...what if the banks tighten lending even further down the track, and demand say 20% deposit and proof of the savings...say at least 6-12 months history...are you in a position to meet those hurdles ?
then if the whole thing turns around next year....will they start jacking interest rates back up to 7% fairly quickly ???? could you still afford to buy

there are a lot of pro's and cons...so you need to list them and decide
a big dilemna for a first home buyer....

sometimes when I cannot decide what to do....I do nothing at all...never force myself into a quick decision....miss an opportunity now...so what, really there should be opportunites available to you all your life....you just need to recognise them

read some ridiculous things about banks here in OZ foreclosing on a late payment of 13.56...in the news today
 
Why buy a house right now, believe me there is no urgency to buy? This assest class needs to be popped just like every assest class is popping around us. A recession = job losses = reduced incomes = defaults on loans = bad debt = collapse in house prices = collapse in bank share prices.
 
if house prices wont go down and its all hunky dory, why is the government spending your and mine tax money to help a first home buyer?
The first home owners grant has been happening for as long as I can remember, so any issues are to do with getting into the market as a FHO and nothing to do with the Global crisis. It is only just in the last few months that it has been increased. Given that for a property worth around $300,000 (entry level in SA) you pay $11,000 stamp duty :banghead: - almost the same as the FHOG then all it does is pay state taxes! The global crisis is just another part of the jigsaw and not the driving reason.
 
prospector...I thought stamp duty was abolished in most states for fhb's up to a certain level...its not something that affects me, so am not sure
 
prospector...I thought stamp duty was abolished in most states for fhb's up to a certain level...its not something that affects me, so am not sure
Not in SA, I checked the SA Revenue website before I posted; houses at $300,000 are excluded from any concessions because of their value. Bloody Government!:banghead:
 
if he was so smart....why wait until you are 50, to buy your first home, at the top of the market, then have to sell it at the worst possible time...when the market has bottomed ???
so he is back to renting....

did you read the article. He sold his house because he reckons the property market will crash. He never told us when he bought it so he most likely bought low and sold high.

And what made you come to the conclusion that the market has bottomed?
 
The first home owners grant has been happening for as long as I can remember, so any issues are to do with getting into the market as a FHO and nothing to do with the Global crisis. It is only just in the last few months that it has been increased. Given that for a property worth around $300,000 (entry level in SA) you pay $11,000 stamp duty :banghead: - almost the same as the FHOG then all it does is pay state taxes! The global crisis is just another part of the jigsaw and not the driving reason.

"The First Home Owner Grant (FHOG) scheme was introduced on 1 July 2000 to offset the effect of the GST on home ownership. It is a national scheme funded by the states and territories and administered under their own legislation."


so do you think its still being done because of the gst, it was originally because the introduction of the tax was going to cause a downturn in the house building industry due to many building cost going up by 10 percent that didn't have a tax pre gst, it then went from that reasoning to a booming economy and increase in house prices combined eventually with the uptrend cycle of higher interest rates that made it difficult for first home owners to buy into a first home, now interest rates have declined due to the credit crises and lack of growth the first home owners grant has been continued to prop up the house building industry.

interesting article in the Sunday times states 40 percent of house sales are from first home owners. investors are not looking at buying until end of june (i think) to see if the first home owners grant will continue (in other words most people are waiting for a house price decline if/when the grant is discontinued) , of course its a no brainer for the housing industry to come out and say it should be kept going and it probably will so it continues keeping tradies in work, but ultimately it gets back to the sub prime similarities.
 
I don't think everyone should be so quick to write off Professor Keen.

If unemployment stays within a reasonable zone, say 7% then he may well be proven wrong, however, if this recession lasts 4 years, as some economists expect it will be known as the "Great Recession" and once house prices start collapsing, then he may be right.

Have a look at his website. It is quite interesting.
 
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