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[skc]

I also don't understand how the Ping could have been heard from such vast distances apart... the different hits seem to be some 40km apart, while the earlier Chinese signals where 600km away.

Again, if some of these signals are false, where the hell do they come from and how do we know that not all the signals are false?

May be there are other stuff down there creating the signal.

Anyone played the game X-Com series? Terror from the Deep anyone?!

 

[SirRumpole]

I also don't understand how the Ping could have been heard from such vast distances apart... the different hits seem to be some 40km apart, while the earlier Chinese signals where 600km away.

Again, if some of these signals are false, where the hell do they come from and how do we know that not all the signals are false?

May be there are other stuff down there creating the signal.

Anyone played the game X-Com series? Terror from the Deep anyone?!

As I understand it, the signals are acoustic (sound) , not radio because radio doesn't work very well under water, at least not at frequencies that are easy to generate. Similar acoustic noises are made by dolphins, which is why they require to pick up the signals in a defined area to rule out the sounds of dolphin passing through.

 

[CanOz]

As I understand it, the signals are acoustic (sound) , not radio because radio doesn't work very well under water, at least not at frequencies that are easy to generate. Similar acoustic noises are made by dolphins, which is why they require to pick up the signals in a defined area to rule out the sounds of dolphin passing through.

err no they're a very specific frequency, unique in the ocean world. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[skc]

As I understand it, the signals are acoustic (sound) , not radio because radio doesn't work very well under water, at least not at frequencies that are easy to generate. Similar acoustic noises are made by dolphins, which is why they require to pick up the signals in a defined area to rule out the sounds of dolphin passing through.

I read somewhere that the sound frequency of the blackbox was specifically chosen to be distinct from other natural sources. It would be quite an oversight if it's the same as dolphins.

I also remember reading that the blackbox sound has a range of ~7miles... or 11km give or take. Hence my question on how they could have picked up signals from so far apart.

P.S. Where did I say the signal was a radio frequency?

 

[SirRumpole]

err no they're a very specific frequency, unique in the ocean world. Didn't you get the memo?

Fair enough, I got my info from a science forum, obviously not a very good one.

 

[CanOz]

Fair enough, I got my info from a science forum, obviously not a very good one.

Bloody forums hey Sir?

This is not where i read it the first time but its along the same lines...

Scientists: Search Crews Unlikely to Confuse Black Box 'Pings' With Whale Sounds

Scientists who study marine mammals and their underwater noises told Mashable that it is “difficult to imagine” that Navy analysts, who have been trained to recognize marine sounds, would confuse the pinger sounds with biological sounds. Scientists pointed to the fact that there are major differences between the frequencies at which living species generate noises, as well as the duration and temporal pattern of their sound pulses, compared to those of the acoustic beacons attached to the black boxes.

Referring to the sound frequency, duration and pattern, Catherine Berchok, a marine acoustics specialist at the federal National Marine Mammal Laboratory in Seattle said she would “assume the aviation black box has a very unique combination of those three things.” At the same time, she says, “Each marine mammal has a particular way it uses these frequencies.”

Berchok told Mashable that marine mammals can vocalize from very low to very high frequencies, whereas black box pings are designed to be emitted at a nearly constant frequency of 37.5 kHz. Such pings aren’t audible to the human ear, which can only detect signals from 20 hz to 20 kHz, but the pings can be picked up by hydrophones.

By comparison, blue whales, Berchok said in an interview, emit a low frequency sound of about 10 hz, whereas dolphins can vocalize at up to 160 kHz. While some marine mammals’ do emit sounds within the frequency range of the flight recorders, they do so with far different patterns than the black box recorders do, Berchok says.

 

[McLovin]

Fair enough, I got my info from a science forum, obviously not a very good one.

I tried to find the sound but couldn't. Anyway, I've heard one before and it sounds like a clock ticking at precise intervals of one second. It would be really hard to describe it sounding like a dolphin.

ETA: I found it! Here's a sample at 50 seconds of what it is they're trying to listen for...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okWdts65Vkg

It sounds very man-made.

 

[bellenuit]

I also remember reading that the blackbox sound has a range of ~7miles... or 11km give or take. Hence my question on how they could have picked up signals from so far apart.

I find the whole signal detection confusing. When they first detected the pings, why didn't they stop the boat? Also, as far as I understand, the detector they were trawling has a range of just a few kilometres (4km I think). If that is the case then why are they saying that detection of the pings has narrowed the search area down to (I think) 11,000 kilometres. Surely 16km would be more accurate. Unless the plane floated for a while, but the black box sank immediately (unlikely they would separate so easily), then surely the plane should be where the black box is, except for some floatable parts that may have drifted.

 

[McLovin]

I find the whole signal detection confusing. When they first detected the pings, why didn't they stop the boat? Also, as far as I understand, the detector they were trawling has a range of just a few kilometres (4km I think). If that is the case then why are they saying that detection of the pings has narrowed the search area down to (I think) 11,000 kilometres. Surely 16km would be more accurate. Unless the plane floated for a while, but the black box sank immediately (unlikely they would separate so easily), then surely the plane should be where the black box is, except for some floatable parts that may have drifted.

The ping is not triangulated, it's just "OK it's getting stronger when we go this way. Also don't forget the sea bed where they are searching is not flat, it's quite mountainous. If the BB is located on a hill then as the ship passes over the top of the hill the signal will suddenly drop off. The ping will also reflect and refract as it bounces off the topography. The range the signal can be heard is affected by heaps of variables like the underwater conditions, the sensitivity of the hydrophones etc etc.

I didn't know this but the signal waveform is unique each aircraft, and Boeing will have on record the waveform. So they should be able to confirm its a match. I imagine they are already working on this.

 

[skc]

I find the whole signal detection confusing. When they first detected the pings, why didn't they stop the boat? Also, as far as I understand, the detector they were trawling has a range of just a few kilometres (4km I think). If that is the case then why are they saying that detection of the pings has narrowed the search area down to (I think) 11,000 kilometres. Surely 16km would be more accurate. Unless the plane floated for a while, but the black box sank immediately (unlikely they would separate so easily), then surely the plane should be where the black box is, except for some floatable parts that may have drifted.

Around 4 minutes in, they explain how the sound can enter certain ocean channels and travel many hundreds of miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqGqZzONv6g

Apparantly there have been cases of un-piloted "ghost" aircrafts landing in the ocean in tact after fuel ran out. Sorry don't have a link - but it was reported during wartimes and after the pilot and crew have ejected. This is a possible reason for no surface debris being spotted, even though they are clsoing in on the black box.

 

[baby_swallow]

http://www.emirates247.com/news/mis...-not-crashed-diego-garcia-2014-04-23-1.546548

It amazes me the no mainstream media ever mentioned the tiny island of Diego Garcia.
Google Earth this island and you will be amazed on what you'll see

 

[So_Cynical]

http://www.emirates247.com/news/mis...-not-crashed-diego-garcia-2014-04-23-1.546548

It amazes me the no mainstream media ever mentioned the tiny island of Diego Garcia.
Google Earth this island and you will be amazed on what you'll see

Its an American Military base on a British island 600 odd clicks south of the Maldives, guessing 2000 clicks from the latest search area...so what?

 

[bellenuit]

Channel 9 reporting possible debris from plane washed up near Augusta on WA's SW coast. Photos being sent to investigators for further analysis.

 

[Julia]

http://www.emirates247.com/news/mis...-not-crashed-diego-garcia-2014-04-23-1.546548

It amazes me the no mainstream media ever mentioned the tiny island of Diego Garcia.
Google Earth this island and you will be amazed on what you'll see

Its an American Military base on a British island 600 odd clicks south of the Maldives, guessing 2000 clicks from the latest search area...so what?

The theory that the aircraft landed there has been extensively covered on other forums.

 

[drsmith]

Channel 9 reporting possible debris from plane washed up near Augusta on WA's SW coast. Photos being sent to investigators for further analysis.

There's a number of media reports on this now.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-...re-examined-for-links-to-flight-mh370/5407584

https://news.google.com/news?ncl=dE...a=X&ei=97NXU9rwGsijlQWd4oGgCQ&ved=0CDMQqgIwAA

 

[noco]

It is interesting to read some of the fact, myths and comments of what might or might not have happened.

There one comment which stated they had overlooked the northern corridor.....I made comment earlier of the possibility of that plane being hi-jacked and flown to North Korea....The North Koreans are pretty good at this kind of stuff when it comes to secrecy...there were some 180 Chinese on board and it would have been hard to identify the difference between these two Nationalities...there could possibly have been some North Koreans amongst them with false passports.



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ma...-myths-explained/story-fniztvne-1226896206143

 

[bellenuit]

It is interesting to read some of the fact, myths and comments of what might or might not have happened.

There one comment which stated they had overlooked the northern corridor.....I made comment earlier of the possibility of that plane being hi-jacked and flown to North Korea....The North Koreans are pretty good at this kind of stuff when it comes to secrecy...there were some 180 Chinese on board and it would have been hard to identify the difference between these two Nationalities...there could possibly have been some North Koreans amongst them with false passports.



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ma...-myths-explained/story-fniztvne-1226896206143

China is their only ally of any significance. I think it would be unlikely that they would want to do anything that might cause a rift between them.

I still like the theory that the pilot was in contact with Malaysian authorities and threatened to dump the plane in the most remote part of the ocean if they didn't drop charges against Ibrahim. Malaysia thought he was bluffing and now are too embarrassed to admit that they let it get out of hand and caused the deaths of 180 Chinese. Although not giving in to high jackers is normally seen as the correct action, in this case the world knows the sodomy charges against Ibrahim were just trumped up charges, so there would be no sympathy for the Malaysian government's steadfast rejection of the pilot's demands.

It would certainly account for Malaysia's obfuscation in the first few weeks following the plane going missing. The last thing they wanted was the black box and flight recorder data to be found which would reveal what actually went on.

 

[noco]

China is their only ally of any significance. I think it would be unlikely that they would want to do anything that might cause a rift between them.

I still like the theory that the pilot was in contact with Malaysian authorities and threatened to dump the plane in the most remote part of the ocean if they didn't drop charges against Ibrahim. Malaysia thought he was bluffing and now are too embarrassed to admit that they let it get out of hand and caused the deaths of 180 Chinese. Although not giving in to high jackers is normally seen as the correct action, in this case the world knows the sodomy charges against Ibrahim were just trumped up charges, so there would be no sympathy for the Malaysian government's steadfast rejection of the pilot's demands.

It would certainly account for Malaysia's obfuscation in the first few weeks following the plane going missing. The last thing they wanted was the black box and flight recorder data to be found which would reveal what actually went on.

Yes ....that is another theory but that "RATBAG" of a president of North Korea would have no consideration for the 180 Chinese on board....he is ruthless in light of the fact that he put to death his own uncle and his family by 120 famished dogs whom had not been fed for three days.....North Korea is the most secretive of any nation in the world.

 

[DB008]

It could never be found.

Air France took almost 2 years to find, and they had better location coordinates to begin with than MH370.

I'm also putting my neck out there by saying that 1 of the 2 pilots was in on it (older, senior pilot) did this on purpose.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The crash site of MH370 is more than likely known.

If the CIA can blow the bejaysus out of some smelly Al Qaida commander sitting in a Nissan Cedric in Waziristan, they sure as hell, must know of the approximate location of this aircraft.

gg