Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

It's Time To Tell China To Get Nicked

people are free to start any business they like, no one is stopping anyone making different types of products for exports.

we export all sorts of things already not just resources, but we have a very small population and we control a very large amount of the planets resources compared to the population we have.

It would be immoral not to market the resources to the rest of the world, and eventually very dangerous .

It would be nice if the taxpayer got more out of our resources (like an export tax), rather than the profits going to generally foreign shareholders (Exxon, Chevron etc).

Current royalties are a pittance, and the resources won't last forever.
 
Hopefully your 8th grandchild gets to keep their franking credits since you and your choice of government have sold out their working conditions.......
You need some rainex, to get rid of the rust.
It may be untill the grandson grows up, before your mob get in again, as for conditions it was your mob that raised the retirement age to 67, so don't make out they are some sort of protector of workers rights.lol
It is only the rusted on that believe the old chestnut, that Labor are in there for the worker, they are in there to get the perks same as most politicians. As has been proven across the globe, the workers are over Labor's BS, hopefully All can turn it around.
Anyway getting of thread somewhat.
 
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You need some rainex, to get rid of the rust.
It may be untill the grandson grows up, before your mob get in again, as for conditions it was your mob that raised the retirement age to 67, so don't make out they are some sort of protector of workers rights.lol
It is only the rusted on that believe the old chestnut, that Labor are in there for the worker, they are in there to get the perks same as most politicians. As has been proven across the globe, the workers are over Labor's BS, hopefully All can turn it around.
Anyway getting of thread somewhat.
Geez that's some long bow
New born to retirement age lol
Just thought I'd get your blood flowing Sunday morning
Got a bit bored on nights keeping the economy running
 
Current royalties are a pittance, and the resources won't last forever.

How much do you think the royalties are? your not going by the false info from the article sprawler was fooled by are you when he said Iron ore royalties were only $0.25

It would be nice if the taxpayer got more out of our resources (like an export tax), rather than the profits going to generally foreign shareholders (Exxon, Chevron etc).

Not sure what you mean by "It would be nice if the taxpayer got more out of our resources", because some of the largest taxpayers are the mining companies.

However, I think you really mean that you want the government/population to get more.

The fact is the government already gets a pretty large share of the value generated from mining when you add up all the ways in extracts cash at ever stage of the process.

Take Iron Ore for example

1, the government sells the exploration rights before we even know if there are any resources there, it charges income tax and Gst etc on all the wages of people involved in doing the exploring.

2, Once resources are found, before building the mine can start it charges a multitude fees, stamp duties, environmental levies etc + income tax on all the people needed to carry out design, planning and many other studies.

3, Once construction of the mine and infrastructure begins many millions of dollars in taxes will be paid by high income workers during the construction phase from income tax, GST, Alcohol, airport taxes etc etc.

4, Then many years later after the first exploration rights were paid, and after the mining company has spent ship loads of money which a decent amount found its way to the government, Actual mining can start and then the government takes 7.5% of the total sale price of the Ore + 30% of the mining companies profits + 30% of the employee's wages + GST and other taxes on investors dividends when they hit the share holders earnings etc etc.

All these taxes have to be paid either directly or indirectly from the sale of the Ore, when you add it all up over a mines life, a decent portion of the Ore sold goes to taxes already.
 
There is only one photograph in circulation of the Tibetan Gedhun Choekyi Niyima, one of the world's most famous "disappeared" persons. It is little more than a snapshot, taken when he was just six years old. It shows a boy with rosy cheeks and an impassive look on his face. That boy is now 31, and 17 May marks exactly 25 years since he and his family were disappeared by China, three days after he was identified as the reincarnated Panchen Lama, the second most important figure in Tibetan Buddhism.

Since he was taken, there has been no independent news on his fate.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52660198

Full marks for consistency, I s'pose.
.
 
How much do you think the royalties are? your not going by the false info from the article sprawler was fooled by are you when he said Iron ore royalties were only $0.25



Not sure what you mean by "It would be nice if the taxpayer got more out of our resources", because some of the largest taxpayers are the mining companies.

However, I think you really mean that you want the government/population to get more.

The fact is the government already gets a pretty large share of the value generated from mining when you add up all the ways in extracts cash at ever stage of the process.

Take Iron Ore for example

1, the government sells the exploration rights before we even know if there are any resources there, it charges income tax and Gst etc on all the wages of people involved in doing the exploring.

2, Once resources are found, before building the mine can start it charges a multitude fees, stamp duties, environmental levies etc + income tax on all the people needed to carry out design, planning and many other studies.

3, Once construction of the mine and infrastructure begins many millions of dollars in taxes will be paid by high income workers during the construction phase from income tax, GST, Alcohol, airport taxes etc etc.

4, Then many years later after the first exploration rights were paid, and after the mining company has spent ship loads of money which a decent amount found its way to the government, Actual mining can start and then the government takes 7.5% of the total sale price of the Ore + 30% of the mining companies profits + 30% of the employee's wages + GST and other taxes on investors dividends when they hit the share holders earnings etc etc.

All these taxes have to be paid either directly or indirectly from the sale of the Ore, when you add it all up over a mines life, a decent portion of the Ore sold goes to taxes already.

Exxon reported as Australia's biggest tax dodger.

http://autotalk.com.au/industry-news/exxon-reported-australias-top-tax-dodger
 
Hopefully your 8th grandchild gets to keep their franking credits since you and your choice of government have sold out their working conditions.......
Given that every government since 1975 has done that, I don't see that any ordinary voter really made a choice in the matter.

It's not as though there was any point in time where a party that wasn't Labor or the Coalition had a realistic chance of governing and both have taken us down the same track of a race to the bottom which has brought us to the point of competing with, and relying on, China in particular. :2twocents
 
You should of got out of the powerhouse and tried working construction under Liberal governments
Like the Perth to Mandurah train line as one example
 
https://www.sydneytoday.com/content-102020738888004

"Beijing will not call back!" Australia wanted to discuss a settlement of the trade dispute, but China did not respond! Trade Minister: Australian companies may focus on other markets.

Australian Trade Minister Simon Birmingham said the federal government has submitted a large amount of evidence to China that Australia has not dumped barley against China. The federal government hopes to discuss the matter, but China has not responded.

The Sydney Morning Herald reported that Minister Birmingham tried to communicate with the Chinese side by phone to resolve the increasingly serious trade dispute between the two countries, but so far no response has been received from the other side.

In an interview on Sunday morning, Birmingham stated that the federal government has responded comprehensively to the "dumping barley" proposed by China, providing more than 10,000 pages of information and evidence.

Birmingham said: "These evidences clearly show that Australian barley producers, like other farmers, do not need government subsidies at all. Australia is one of the most productive and efficient countries in the world, and ours can provide highly competitive barley."

"We have proposed to discuss with China on this matter, but as of now, the other party has not made any response. What I want to say is that the Australian government has always been willing to engage in constructive dialogue with other countries, including incidents where our views are inconsistent.

Birmingham admits that so far, he has not received a direct response from the Chinese side, but Australian officials are still engaged in government-level "talks" with the Chinese side.

Birmingham pointed out that China is an important trading partner of Australia and most countries in the Asia-Pacific region, as well as Australia's largest trading partner. "This is why we value contact with China and are determined to provide Australian farmers and exporters with access to the Chinese market. The trade volume between China and Australia has continued to grow in recent years.

Birmingham also said in an interview that, due to the recent trade dispute between the two countries, Australian companies may turn their attention to other countries. "I anticipate that after experiencing some unpredictable regulatory intervention, many Australian companies will comprehensively consider risk issues and turn their attention to other markets."
 
You should of got out of the powerhouse and tried working construction under Liberal governments
Like the Perth to Mandurah train line as one example

I don't know about that train line specifically but power and rail are two classic examples of where Australia has gone wrong. Both have been stuffed up basically although power arguably more so - it has after all played at least some role in the downfall of the past 4 PM's and may well claim more if they can't get it right.
 
Not sure what you mean by "It would be nice if the taxpayer got more out of our resources", because some of the largest taxpayers are the mining companies.

The issue with the mining industry could be compared to someone who throws in their university studies or trade license because they make a go of it in pop music or modeling.

Australia had a viable economy without the dominance of mineral exports, it wasn't zero but it wasn't the mainstay, but once mining ramped up it brought about the demise of most of what existed beforehand.

As iron ore grew larger, that was the end of building new factories in Australia. Governments lost interest in manufacturing since government had a source of revenue from the mines.

As coal exports grew that brought with it the closure of much manufacturing, a trend which accelerated as gas exports began and then ramped up. Not only did governments no longer need the money, the mineral exports held the AUD high and killed off the competitiveness of other industry.

Where the concern lies going forward is akin to the pop singer or model. You don't need to be an expert in music or fashion to know that most careers are over pretty quickly and that the chance of making a lifetime career out of pop music or fashion is not zero but it's extremely slim.

By all means grab the money while it's there, nothing wrong with that, but the rational approach is to leverage that into something more sustainable be it via business, education, financial investments or whatever. The idea of relying on it to last and that the whole country finds itself in a position akin to the has-been pop singer with no plan B is alarming to say the least. :2twocents
 
It has more in common with the local fish and chip shop.

Using that analogy, go back to the 1980's and take away shops were everywhere but have been declining ever since and most of them are gone today.

They all looked much the same with their ubiquitous row of flashing light bulbs, Coca Cola signs and usually tobacco advertising but are a far less common sight in the suburbs than they used to be: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtAM-RKU8AICTVY?format=jpg&name=small

Not a good business model for the country going forward really. A smart person back then would have sold the chip shop before McDonald's spread beyond the cities and before government stopped the tobacco companies paying $$$ to advertise anywhere they could and instead become a major player in gyms or something like that which has grown massively since then. :2twocents
 
The issue with the mining industry could be compared to someone who throws in their university studies or trade license because they make a go of it in pop music or modeling.

Australia had a viable economy without the dominance of mineral exports, it wasn't zero but it wasn't the mainstay, but once mining ramped up it brought about the demise of most of what existed beforehand.

As iron ore grew larger, that was the end of building new factories in Australia. Governments lost interest in manufacturing since government had a source of revenue from the mines.

As coal exports grew that brought with it the closure of much manufacturing, a trend which accelerated as gas exports began and then ramped up. Not only did governments no longer need the money, the mineral exports held the AUD high and killed off the competitiveness of other industry.

Where the concern lies going forward is akin to the pop singer or model. You don't need to be an expert in music or fashion to know that most careers are over pretty quickly and that the chance of making a lifetime career out of pop music or fashion is not zero but it's extremely slim.

By all means grab the money while it's there, nothing wrong with that, but the rational approach is to leverage that into something more sustainable be it via business, education, financial investments or whatever. The idea of relying on it to last and that the whole country finds itself in a position akin to the has-been pop singer with no plan B is alarming to say the least. :2twocents

the factories were going to die even if we didn’t mine, they didn’t die because of mining.
 
Using that analogy, go back to the 1980's and take away shops were everywhere but have been declining ever since and most of them are gone today.

They all looked much the same with their ubiquitous row of flashing light bulbs, Coca Cola signs and usually tobacco advertising but are a far less common sight in the suburbs than they used to be: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtAM-RKU8AICTVY?format=jpg&name=small

Not a good business model for the country going forward really. A smart person back then would have sold the chip shop before McDonald's spread beyond the cities and before government stopped the tobacco companies paying $$$ to advertise anywhere they could and instead become a major player in gyms or something like that which has grown massively since then. :2twocents

There are a lot more take away shops today than there were in the 80’s, and a lot more take away meals served each day.
 
Australia is far closer to the US system than it is to China's.

We don't directly elect a Prime Minister, unlike the US which does directly elect the President, but we do elect the MP's who form government.

You can publicly criticise government policy all you like and, with the exception of those employed in a directly related area, you are free to do so without suffering consequences.

Much the same in the US. Americans are free to criticise Trump and his policies if they wish.

In contrast Chinese don't say a word against the government indeed they don't even get to choose who's in it.

The US is far from perfect and whilst better in my view, Australia also has flaws but at least we do collectively have the option to remove the government from power if we so choose. :2twocents

nah you're wrong

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_China

"The number of annual protests has grown steadily since the early 1990s, from approximately 8700 "mass group incidents" in 1993[1] to over 87,000 in 2005."

I don't like the Chinese government and their policies. Not because internal "human rights" but because they clearly serve American interests.
 
the factories were going to die even if we didn’t mine, they didn’t die because of mining.
They sure did die because of the high AUD and lack of government need to keep them running.

Cut mining royalties to zero and government would have no choice other than to make manufacturing a goer.

Same happens in most countries with resources. It allows a lazy approach and leads to poor governance since the government itself can survive just fine without needing the creative and intellectual parts of the economy to thrive.

It's essentially the same concept as those with inherited wealth typically don't excel in any normal profession as they simply have no perceived need to do so. Hence the old rule of thumb that the first generation starts the business, the second makes it big and the third blows the money. :2twocents
 
There are a lot more take away shops today than there were in the 80’s, and a lot more take away meals served each day.
Not anywhere I've been there aren't.

Remove all the chain franchises which only sell their own branded products and those which are restaurants as such or which are Indian, Chinese, Japanese etc and there's far less than there used to be just selling fish & chips.

Where I used to live many years ago you could stand in one spot and there were 2 of them within sight and just down the road was a chicken & chips place. The whole lot are gone now and in their place is a bakery cafe, a noodle take away place, a Mexican food place, a sandwich shop, McDonald's, KFC and Domino's pizza for food meanwhile the convenience store aspect of it is covered by Coles trading 7 days a week and the service station having swapped the workshop for a convenience store open 24/7.

Same in the area I lived immediately before this one. Like a lot of places there were two fish & chip shops, one on each side of the road. One's still there but the other one closed down, sat empty for quite a while, briefly emerged as a cafe and I see it's now an Italian restaurant of sorts.

Same everywhere. The big fast food chains and things like noodles, Mexican etc have grown, service stations have swapped workshops for convenience stores and are open extremely long hours but actual fish & chip shops aren't anywhere near as common as they used to be. They still exist but not as common as they once were.

Anyone who thinks the world will never stop wanting ever increasing amounts of Australia's coal and gas is in much the same position as someone circa 1985 in the fish & chip business who ignored the growth of franchised fast food and convenience stores in my view. Change happens and there's quite a few reasons to think that coal and gas aren't where it's going to be at in 2050. :2twocents
 
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