It's Time To Tell China To Get Nicked

[basilio]

It seems to me that it's impossible to have a sensible relationship with a country that weaponises trade as much as China.

How about including the US in that statement ? As well of course as the UK ?

Historically and currently the US absolutely ties its political relationships with countries to how freely their businesses are allowed to operate. The crux of the issue is that the US government has historically taken the view that if a country does not openly welcome, court and accept any US investment they are not friendly.

The political consequences range from political attacks on the government, financial attacks on the economy and if necessary covert overthrow of the countries government.

I bring this point up because the US, in particular, stands behind its companies as political power. Other countries are more inclined to let governments deal with their businesses without resorting to political pressure. But nonetheless the whole point of being a big political power is to strengthen your economic interests internationally through trade and investment.

 

[SirRumpole]

How about including the US in that statement ? As well of course as the UK ?

Historically and currently the US absolutely ties its political relationships with countries to how freely their businesses are allowed to operate. The crux of the issue is that the US government has historically taken the view that if a country does not openly welcome, court and accept any US investment they are not friendly.

The political consequences range from political attacks on the government, financial attacks on the economy and if necessary covert overthrow of the countries government.

I bring this point up because the US, in particular, stands behind its companies as political power. Other countries are more inclined to let governments deal with their businesses without resorting to political pressure. But nonetheless the whole point of being a big political power is to strengthen your economic interests internationally through trade and investment.

This is a thread about China bas, if you want to rant about the US start another thread.

Although you do have a point.

 

[basilio]

This is a thread about China bas, if you want to rant about the US start another thread.

Although you do have a point.

I don't want to discuss the US and their obvious behaviour.

The point is wanting to stop our economic relationship with China to be free of political pressure makes no sense in the overall context of international relations.

It's worth saying again. In a US dominated economic world we were all under pressure to conform to US foreign polices and to uncritically allow every US company the opportunity to do what it wanted.

Is anyone aware of how difficult it was to start the Foreign Investment Review Board ?

Anyway the Government has already used the FIRB to stop and scrutinize every overseas attempt to buy Australian assets.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...ctions-australian-assets-coronavirus/12101332

 

[qldfrog]

I do not think China is a communist country.It may have started out with those intentions but now it is an autocracy that grows millionaires a plenty. There are differences but also common themes between US and China.

Of course not, it is an autocracy with wild capitalism liberating the best and worst of human ingenuity and entrepreneurship
When torrential rain came and flooded the access to Subway in Shenzhen, in 10 minutes you had people charging a few dollars to carry you on trolleys/their back if need be to allow you to access the platforms dry; and the show goes on.
In Australia everything would be closed, chaos for 1/2 day, passengers stranded for hours.
Well this is what happens here in Brisbane
So raw capitalism with a dictatorship over the top

 

[Smurf1976]

we should be the smiling face to all other nations, selling our goods and services.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong morally but as a business model that has a lot in common with prostitution. Anything at a price so long as it's legal.

As any smart hooker works out real quick, Australia's aim should be to take a ruthless approach to the business, make money, invest that into something else and get the hell out of it.

 

[SirRumpole]

The point is wanting to stop our economic relationship with China to be free of political pressure makes no sense in the overall context of international relations.

Yes it does. The US and China have completely different political systems, which one would you rather live under ?

I don't want to be dominated by any other country, but where investment is required better the devil you know imo, and if there are a lot of US business interests here one would think they would be more likely to protect them militarily wouldn't one ?

 

[basilio]

Yes it does. The US and China have completely different political systems, which one would you rather live under ?

How about our own political system which we freely elect and expect to be accountable to the Australian community. ?

Lets be clear about US interference in countries around the world including Australia. If the US doesn't approve of what your country is doing and in particular if, in any way, it impinges on the God given tights of US Free Enterprise corporations they reserve the right to undermine said government and install a more reliable partner.

They are particularly partial to strong military dictatorships that ensure businesses have no problems with unions.

 

[Smurf1976]

How about our own political system which we freely elect and expect to be accountable to the Australian community. ?

Australia is far closer to the US system than it is to China's.

We don't directly elect a Prime Minister, unlike the US which does directly elect the President, but we do elect the MP's who form government.

You can publicly criticise government policy all you like and, with the exception of those employed in a directly related area, you are free to do so without suffering consequences.

Much the same in the US. Americans are free to criticise Trump and his policies if they wish.

In contrast Chinese don't say a word against the government indeed they don't even get to choose who's in it.

The US is far from perfect and whilst better in my view, Australia also has flaws but at least we do collectively have the option to remove the government from power if we so choose.

 

[Value Collector]

We must stand up to China

No, we must stop watching sky and Fox News.

 

[Value Collector]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong morally but as a business model that has a lot in common with prostitution. Anything at a price so long as it's legal.

As any smart hooker works out real quick, Australia's aim should be to take a ruthless approach to the business, make money, invest that into something else and get the hell out of it.

It has more in common with the local fish and chip shop.

eg. focus on making the best fish and chips and smile at your customers, don't get into political or religious debates with them, or try and lecture them on stuff, just sell them the fish and chips and smile while you collect the cash.

 

[Value Collector]

How about including the US in that statement ? As well of course as the UK ?

Historically and currently the US absolutely ties its political relationships with countries to how freely their businesses are allowed to operate. The crux of the issue is that the US government has historically taken the view that if a country does not openly welcome, court and accept any US investment they are not friendly.

The political consequences range from political attacks on the government, financial attacks on the economy and if necessary covert overthrow of the countries government.

I bring this point up because the US, in particular, stands behind its companies as political power. Other countries are more inclined to let governments deal with their businesses without resorting to political pressure. But nonetheless the whole point of being a big political power is to strengthen your economic interests internationally through trade and investment.

Yep, no one weaponises trade and finance more than the USA, not to mention no one weaponises actual weapons more than the USA.

The USA is the biggest Spy, The biggest Invader and War monger, The biggest Financial and trade enforcer, The biggest Arms dealer, and has its own pandemics eg Swine and Spanish flu.

But because they are white, and smiley most of the time, we are fine with it.

But the big bad Asians are scary to some insecure people.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yep, no one weaponises trade and finance more than the USA, not to mention no one weaponises actual weapons more than the USA.

The USA is the biggest Spy, The biggest Invader and War monger, The biggest Financial and trade enforcer, The biggest Arms dealer, and has its own pandemics eg Swine and Spanish flu.

Yeah, but that's free enterprise for you.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes it does. The US and China have completely different political systems, which one would you rather live under ?

I don't want to be dominated by any other country, but where investment is required better the devil you know imo, and if there are a lot of US business interests here one would think they would be more likely to protect them militarily wouldn't one ?

I always remember watching a documentary on business dealings with Asia, the Australian custom of a handshake and your word, was a deal.
When dealing with parts of Asia, a deal is a deal, untill they arent winning, then apparently a new deal needs to be made.

 

[sptrawler]

Yep, no one weaponises trade and finance more than the USA, not to mention no one weaponises actual weapons more than the USA.

The USA is the biggest Spy, The biggest Invader and War monger, The biggest Financial and trade enforcer, The biggest Arms dealer, and has its own pandemics eg Swine and Spanish flu.

But because they are white, and smiley most of the time, we are fine with it.

But the big bad Asians are scary to some insecure people.

Yes lots that were in Asian POW camps, as opposed to U.K camps.
Not saying the same would apply now, but from historical accounts, the British looked after their POW's far better than their Asian counterparts.
Just because someone is paying your bills, doesnt mean they have your best interest at heart, it just means you are a dependant.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes lots that were in Asian POW camps, as opposed to U.K camps.
Not saying the same would apply now, but from historical accounts, the British looked after their POW's far better than their Asian counterparts.
Just because someone is paying your bills, doesnt mean they have your best interest at heart, it just means you are a dependant.

And the Germans had death camps and bombed the crap out of London so Europeans are no better than the Asian
Examples you can think of, but I am sure you don’t think that matter of ancient History should affect European trade today.

Also, just remember the USA then Nuked the Japanese,.... twice, but yeah those pow camp conditions though....

 

[sptrawler]

And the Germans had death camps and bombed the crap out of London so Europeans are no better than the Asian
Examples you can think of, but I am sure you don’t think that matter of ancient History should affect European trade today.

Also, just remember the USA then Nuked the Japanese,.... twice, but yeah those pow camp conditions though....

Well I was born in the U.K and have grown up in Australia, so I really cant talk for Germany, Asia, the U.S or anyone else.
But as you said, talking up other cultures or countries principles, doesnt really have the history to back it, but if you are dependent on their generosity I can undestand talking it up. Many are.

 

[Value Collector]

Well I was born in the U.K and have grown up in Australia, so I really cant talk for Germany, Asia, the U.S or anyone else.
But as I said, talking up other cultures principles, doesnt really have the history to back it, but if you ard dependent on their generosity I can undestand talking it up. Many are.

Who is talking up other cultures principles?

I just saying let’s act like businessmen, smile at our customers and take their money.

You don’t have to make moral judgements about every single person you want to sell a bottle of wine or a ship load of Iron Ore too.

If you try to you will find flaws in every customer you have, even Australia has issues, and at the end of the day you can’t really change them foreign nations, So just do business, work on our own problems and lead by example.

 

[sptrawler]

Who is talking up other cultures principles?

I just saying let’s act like businessmen, smile at our customers and take their money.

You don’t have to make moral judgements about every single person you want to sell a bottle of wine or a ship load of Iron Ore too.

If you try to you will find flaws in every customer you have, even Australia has issues, and at the end of the day you can’t really change them foreign nations, So just do business, work on our own problems and lead by example.

This all started about the premise we need to develop a more sustainable business model, if we want to maintain our living standard smiling and thanking our buyers, when they are removing our cheap resources, works fine untill the easily removed resources are gone.
I know it wont be a problem in my lifetime, but my 8th grandchild will be born tomorrow, I dont ghink our business model will be in his best interest.
Leading by example IMO, is developing a business model that isnt just based on digging holes and selling the dirt, eventually you run out of dirt.
Just my opinion.

 

[Humid]

This all started about the premise we need to develop a more sustainable business model, if we want to maintain our living standard smiling and thanking our buyers, when they are removing our cheap resources, works fine untill the easily removed resources are gone.
I know it wont be a problem in my lifetime, but my 8th grandchild will be born tomorrow, I dont ghink our business model will be in his best interest.
Leading by example IMO, is developing a business model that isnt just based on digging holes and selling the dirt, eventually you run out of dirt.
Just my opinion.

Hopefully your 8th grandchild gets to keep their franking credits since you and your choice of government have sold out their working conditions.......

 

[Value Collector]

This all started about the premise we need to develop a more sustainable business model, if we want to maintain our living standard smiling and thanking our buyers, when they are removing our cheap resources, works fine untill the easily removed resources are gone.
I know it wont be a problem in my lifetime, but my 8th grandchild will be born tomorrow, I dont ghink our business model will be in his best interest.
Leading by example IMO, is developing a business model that isnt just based on digging holes and selling the dirt, eventually you run out of dirt.
Just my opinion.

people are free to start any business they like, no one is stopping anyone making different types of products for exports.

we export all sorts of things already not just resources, but we have a very small population and we control a very large amount of the planets resources compared to the population we have.

It would be immoral not to market the resources to the rest of the world, and eventually very dangerous .