It's Time To Tell China To Get Nicked

[SirRumpole]

A contact of mine does business in China and they contracted a Chinese company to make containers for them.

After a while they found that the containers were failing. They contacted the manufacturer and discovered that the manufacturer had neglected to add a hardening component to make the containers stronger. When they enquired why, the manufacturer said the hardening agent was too expensive and un-necessary.

This is one of many stories about lack of standards in Chinese industry, it's all about profits not product and they will cut corners anywhere they can to make money.

 

[moXJO]

Some pretty good evidence for what you said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05...ustralia-trade-tension-barley-tariff/12232426

How about banning Chinese steel in return ?

It's going into Vietnam and being sold from there.

Africa is fast growing to be a big trading partner with China, and they have the ability to produce most of the stuff we sell.

They are locking them into debt traps. China is investing in the region as a soft takeover. It's not if, but when Africa replaces us. Its easier to bribe african nations, cheaper, less regulated. It's just a matter of time.

 

[sptrawler]

It's going into Vietnam and being sold from there.

They are locking them into debt traps. China is investing in the region as a soft takeover. It's not if, but when Africa replaces us. Its easier to bribe african nations, cheaper, less regulated. It's just a matter of time.

I was talking to a South African that owns a tour company in Durban, he said the Chinese pump orders into small companies which then have to gear up to fill the orders, then the orders are not renewed and the company folds and is picked up cheap.
Thinking any of the big mining companies are going to pay our welfare, when the resources are depleted is utter nonsense, they are there to make as much money as possible full stop.
We have to get back to where we were in the 1970's, before the Lima agreement.
There is no reason BHP, Rio, Fortescue etc can't be made to develop a steel industry, even if it is only for domestic consumption, at least it is more jobs and a reduction in imports.

 

[PZ99]

A contact of mine does business in China and they contracted a Chinese company to make containers for them.

After a while they found that the containers were failing. They contacted the manufacturer and discovered that the manufacturer had neglected to add a hardening component to make the containers stronger. When they enquired why, the manufacturer said the hardening agent was too expensive and un-necessary.

This is one of many stories about lack of standards in Chinese industry, it's all about profits not product and they will cut corners anywhere they can to make money.

Yeppers, but that's a worldwide trend driven by greed.
They cut corners because we want cheaper.

We used to buy Chinese alucobest cladding because it was cheap.

 

[SirRumpole]

They cut corners because we want cheaper.

Cheaper to the specified standards, yes. Maybe we have been lax in enforcing those standards.

 

[Value Collector]

Which is a great saying, until you have nothing to trade for the food.
We would be far better served developing other markets, the problem we have is we will end up just working for China, as they will end up owning the resources, e.g the Worlds largest lithium mine in Greenbushes W.A.

we should develop all the markets we can, ofcourse but that doesn’t me we have to tell our best customer to tack off in the process.

 

[Value Collector]

So if you didn't have any money invested there, what would be your opinion of China ?

regardless of which Australian company you invest in, you are benefiting from the Chinese trade relationship, money from the Chinese trade flows through our entire economy, even Nurses and police officers are paid with tax dollars from Chinese trade.

Even if I had no investments and was still just a soldier, I would like unnecessarily damaging our relationship would be dumb.

If we are uncomfortable having 35% of our trade go to China, we’ll let’s expand other markets by all means, but do it by growing the other markets, not shrinking the China one.

 

[sptrawler]

we should develop all the markets we can, ofcourse but that doesn’t me we have to tell our best customer to tack off in the process.

I agree and no doubt it would all be done in a professional manner, the problem is as this virus has shown, we are too dependent on imports.
The Lima agreement was signed to help countries like China, Vietnam, Thailand, Brazil, etc to industrialise, therefore lifting their living standards and it was a successful project as they are all manufacturing Countries now (whether that has translated into lifting them out of poverty, is another discussion).
However China has done it on streroids and is actually now an industrial power house, the problem for us is, the only way we can get value adding industries built will be by making it a condition of resource extraction IMO.
We haven't got a big enough market place to get the volumetric efficiencies that China can achieve, so we will never be able to beat them on a cost base metric.
Therefore it will have to be done by a regulatory platform, that makes it a requirement we buy the Australian product, with something like steel we will be fairly competitive because we have all the resources and energy requirements to make it.
I worked in a blast furnace at Kwinana in the 1970's, it was one of the most efficient furnaces in the World at changing output grades of pig iron, but as soon as the requirement for BHP to expand the steel works was waived, it was shut down and steel imports slowly phased out Australian Iron and Steel.
As Australia is still in a growth phase population wise, it makes sense to use this opportunity to re invigorate the steel industry and supply our own market.
It would have minimal effect on China's production and they shouldn't see it as a threat, our standard of living is dependent on us having sustainable industry and jobs growth, the current structure will lead to a reduction in high paying permanent jobs an increase in welfare and add to that an increase in population = a drop in living standards.
There is no point in being super wealthy in a high crime/ high poverty society, all it brings about is a resentment for the well off, Australia really does need to address the issue as it is inevitable IMO.

 

[SirRumpole]

we should develop all the markets we can, ofcourse but that doesn’t me we have to tell our best customer to tack off in the process.

We should be able to request a simple enquiry into covid without being bullied and harassed by an international gorilla that cares only for itself.

For all anyone knows the virus might have originated outside China, but the fact that China is so deperate to cover things up is a pretty good indication that they know they are responsible.

Selling your soul for shekels will end badly unless we put those shekels into planning for what we will do when our resources no longer exist.

 

[Value Collector]

We should be able to request a simple enquiry into covid without being bullied and harassed by an international gorilla that cares only for itself.

For all anyone knows the virus might have originated outside China, but the fact that China is so deperate to cover things up is a pretty good indication that they know they are responsible.

Selling your soul for shekels will end badly unless we put those shekels into planning for what we will do when our resources no longer exist.

Try asking The USA for an international investigation into something, and you will do no better.

Let some of the other big dogs burn their bridges fighting China, we should be the smiling face to all other nations, selling our goods and services.

 

[SirRumpole]

Try asking The USA for an international investigation into something, and you will do no better.

Let some of the other big dogs burn their bridges fighting China, we should be the smiling face to all other nations, selling our goods and services.

I suppose that makes sense untill you realise they want something else in return, like political subservience.

 

[macca]

It will all throw the spotlight on Free Trade Agreements, any serious investigation of these things raises more questions than answers IMO

How can we pay $25 per hour and compete with $25 pcm ?

We have proven that we have to have tariffs or some form of protection or we all go broke

 

[Value Collector]

It will all throw the spotlight on Free Trade Agreements, any serious investigation of these things raises more questions than answers IMO

How can we pay $25 per hour and compete with $25 pcm ?

We have proven that we have to have tariffs or some form of protection or we all go broke

tariffs are just another tax on consumers.

The fact is each country should just be producing the goods and services they are good at producing, where they have natural competitive advantages.

There is stuff we can produce cheaper or better than China, and there is stuff we can’t.

Adding tariffs just stops Australian consumers from getting access to cheaper products and retaliation tariffs just destroy the markets for the stuff we could be exporting.

So tariffs will force the Australian consumer to over pay and prop up inefficient industries, while it holds back and lowers profits on the good ones.

 

[Value Collector]

I suppose that makes sense untill you realise they want something else in return, like political subservience.

All they want is us to stay out of their business, and sell them stuff.

We aren’t in a position to change them through trade embargoes any way, So I say we should be the economic equivalent of Switzerland.

As I said let the big dogs fight it out, we will just end up with a bloody nose other wise.

 

[dutchie]

We must stand up to China

 

[PZ99]

Where's Clive Palmer when you need him ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-19/clive-palmer-attacks-chinese-government/5679900?nw=0

 

[SirRumpole]

It seems to me that it's impossible to have a sensible relationship with a country that weaponises trade as much as China.

I reckon that the government should get out of the business of trying to intervene between the Chinese government and our industries and let the businesses here and in China try and sort it out on a pure trading basis, ie you pay, we supply. If they can't do that then the best government can do imo is to try and find our suppliers new markets that operate on a non political basis, otherwise we will be jerked around forever.

Australia actually exports most of the red meat we produce, which means that we must import most of the red meat that Australian's consume. How stupid is that ? Satisfy the Australian market first and anything else is a bonus.

 

[joeno]

We must stand up to China

people like you need to stay away from the sensationalism Daily Telegraph quality bull. Read a book or something. Get a view of all sides. The stupidity going around with COVID is off the richter.

i would argue with more facts but im sure you'll hit back with the classic "baaaaaa commie bot".

 

[chiff]

I do not think China is a communist country.It may have started out with those intentions but now it is an autocracy that grows millionaires a plenty. There are differences but also common themes between US and China.

 

[Humid]

It seems to me that it's impossible to have a sensible relationship with a country that weaponises trade as much as China.

I reckon that the government should get out of the business of trying to intervene between the Chinese government and our industries and let the businesses here and in China try and sort it out on a pure trading basis, ie you pay, we supply. If they can't do that then the best government can do imo is to try and find our suppliers new markets that operate on a non political basis, otherwise we will be jerked around forever.

Australia actually exports most of the red meat we produce, which means that we must import most of the red meat that Australian's consume. How stupid is that ? Satisfy the Australian market first and anything else is a bonus.

Can't say I've seen or bought imported beef
Not in WA anyway, surely it would risk the one reason
Aussie beef is so sought after