Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

Value Collector said:

If we go by the definition of evil as being 1.profoundly immoral and wicked.


Then I think all religion is evil at its core, now I am not saying all members are evil, but the concept of the major religions themselves are evil, as to are their leaders.

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What concepts of religion are evil in your opinion ?

I don't think any religion is inherently evil, just the practitioners that want to interpret the written word into their own distorted and perverted world view and impose that onto the masses that are inherently evil.

noco said:

QandA last night gave some insight as what the Muslims are thinking and their demands will increase with the increase in their numbers.

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Yes that Q and A was interesting. The common theme in the group is the feeling of persecution. The truth is that there are people around the world that practice the scriptures with criminal intent. If people are associated with criminals then they expect to be targeted. Did you here any of them condemn the actions of their criminal, as they say, 'brothers and sisters'? I detected a silent contentment with the actions of their holy war jihadist brothers and sisters.

Another facet I notice common is the group is quick to anger, with a low tolerance of anyone speaking or acting against their belief. This is because the followers have a strong, emotional attachment to the words in their book.

Wysiwyg said:

Yes that Q and A was interesting. The common theme in the group is the feeling of persecution. The truth is that there are people around the world that practice the scriptures with criminal intent. If people are associated with criminals then they expect to be targeted. Did you here any of them condemn the actions of their criminal, as they say, 'brothers and sisters'? I detected a silent contentment with the actions of their holy war jihadist brothers and sisters.

Another facet I notice common is the group is quick to anger, with a low tolerance of anyone speaking or acting against their belief. This is because the followers have a strong, emotional attachment to the words in their book.

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two clichés come to mind:

walk like a duck.....

lay down with dogs .......

Craton said:

I don't think any religion is inherently evil, just the practitioners that want to interpret the written word into their own distorted and perverted world view and impose that onto the masses that are inherently evil.

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The core values of the major religions are immoral and some of them can be described as wicked, that's all it takes to be evil.

You don't have to distort the written word, its the core principles I am talking about.

Take Christianity for example, it extols the virtue of scape goating and human sacrifice, the whole idea of us all being sinners because Adam and Eve disobeyed god is immoral, not to mention saying we are worthy of infinite eternal hell fire, for finite crimes. When your past that you get to the concept of torturing and killing another person to free us of our sins, this sort of scape goating is immoral, and it goes on and on, plenty of wickedness and immorality in the major religions teachings.

SirRumpole said:

What concepts of religion are evil in your opinion ?

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you and I have been through this before, if we are talking about Christianity, then its core teachings of children being born sinners worthy of internal punishment, personal redemption through human torture and sacrifice of another person (scape goating), the idea of eternal punishment for finite crimes, etc etc, many more examples.

Value Collector said:

The core values of the major religions are immoral and some of them can be described as wicked, that's all it takes to be evil.

You don't have to distort the written word, its the core principles I am talking about.

Take Christianity for example, it extols the virtue of scape goating and human sacrifice, the whole idea of us all being sinners because Adam and Eve disobeyed god is immoral, not to mention saying we are worthy of infinite eternal hell fire, for finite crimes. When your past that you get to the concept of torturing and killing another person to free us of our sins, this sort of scape goating is immoral, and it goes on and on, plenty of wickedness and immorality in the major religions teachings.

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You are aware that Christianity is based on the "New Testament" which makes a lot of the old testament pulp fiction merely historical activity?

Tisme said:

You are aware that Christianity is based on the "New Testament" which makes a lot of the old testament pulp fiction merely historical activity?

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I am not talking about the old testament, I am talking about the new testament.

But, either way, it would be silly to dismiss the old testament, because that is where the ten commandments came from, and Jesus himself said he didn't come to change any of the laws from the original bible and all the laws will stand until he returns on judgement day.

My statement on Christianity being evil is all backed up by things from the New testament, eg it wasn't until the new testament that the threat of eternal hell fire came about, which is much worse than anything in the old testament, I mean in the old testament god would send his crew to kill you, rape your daughters and kill your cattle, but at least after that it was over, but an eternal torture in the after life, well that's much worse.

Value Collector said:

I am not talking about the old testament, I am talking about the new testament.

.

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My bad I made the mistake of thinking of the Adam and Eve from Genesis, not the other Adam and Eve from Broadmeadows.

Value Collector said:

My statement on Christianity being evil is all backed up by things from the New testament, eg it wasn't until the new testament that the threat of eternal hell fire came about .

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Isn't that a Pope thing rather than a new testament promise?

Tisme said:

My bad I made the mistake of thinking of the Adam and Eve from Genesis, not the other Adam and Eve from Broadmeadows.

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You sound like some one who hasn't read much of the new testament.

Adam is mentioned in Ist Corinthians, Ist Timothy, Luke and Romans
Eve is mentioned in 2nd Corinthians and 1st Timothy

The concept of Original sin is a foundational principle in Christianity, it's the whole reason given for the need to torture and kill Jesus.

Not to mention Jesus makes direct reference to the Book of genesis, So again trying to rule out the old testament is just silly.

Isn't that a Pope thing rather than a new testament promise

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No it's a Jesus thing, Gentle Jesus meek and mild Mentions Hell and Destruction in 46 Verses, he uses terms such as.

everlasting fire
• everlasting punishment
• eternal condemnation
• the fire that shall never be quenched
• their worm does not die
• unquenchable fire

these references no doubt spawned the hell references in book 3 of the Abraham religion, the Qu'ran, where Muhammad repeats the descriptions of a fiery hell.

Value Collector said:

I am not talking about the old testament, I am talking about the new testament.

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The whole of the planet during that era did not embrace or become influenced so that in itself tells us the scriptures were isolated to that location in time. It is only through word of mouth and interpretation of scriptures that these things propagate. The real deal would not be human oriented.

Finding common ground in regards to what is good and bad has been an ongoing challenge throughout history. The laws of civilised modern man need be debated in a civilised manner. The laws of this country aim to protect the innocent to the extent of what is humanly possible.

Wysiwyg said:

The whole of the planet during that era did not embrace or become influenced so that in itself tells us the scriptures were isolated to that location in time. It is only through word of mouth and interpretation of scriptures that these things propagate.

Finding common ground in regards to what is good and bad has been an ongoing challenge throughout history. The laws of civilised modern man need be debated in a civilised manner. The laws of this country aim to protect the innocent to the extent of what is humanly possible.

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There's only one universal god all men through all ages worship - it's Money. All else are just false gods and false prophets created by Man to get to their true god - Money.

I think I just upset everyone, even capitalists.

Ridley Scott's upcoming "Exodus: Gods and Kings" looks like a good movie.

You would imagine that if God take the trouble to bring on the locus, the plague, killing firstborns, parting the seas for Moses and his people... that after all that he would kinda point them to the promised land instead of letting them wondering around the desert for another 40 years!

Tisme said:

two clichés come to mind:

walk like a duck.....

lay down with dogs .......

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Come on Alfalfa... that's a bit much man.

If your brother or sister or cousin commit a crime, would it be fair if you're also charged or imprison for it just because you walk like a duck and talk like a duck, came from the same family... and have a lot of genes in common? Maybe even the same religion and go to the same Church?

I read headlines after the recent raids and there's a few instances around Australia of Muslim women being spat on and pushed around by other, I supposed non-terrorist, Australians.

Anyway, why should Muslims or anyone else must stand up and protest their hatred for terrorists? Isn't that a given? Guess not if you're a Muslim.

noco said:

I have been saying for many moons now the Muslim population are moderate in small numbers but when they increase their numbers is the time they start to use their muscle.

I believe there are a lot of sleeping logs amongst the Muslim community and they are starting to raise their heads as a consequence of the recent police raids......I also believe it has brought many out in the open, way ahead of their planned time.....Maybe the police have sucked them in to see who would be protesting and I am sure the police were not disappointed.

QandA last night gave some insight as what the Muslims are thinking and their demands will increase with the increase in their numbers.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1415094447647

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Yea, I guess we ought to bring back the White Australia policy because them Muslims breeds like rabbits, breed as much as Catholics. This thing call democracy... man if there weren't the glass walls and glass ceilings, weren't for the fact that big corporations dictate policies, we'd have a demographic problem pretty soon.

Ah... coal is good for humanity. haha... how do you say that with a straight face. Like Ron Burgundy reading whatever is shown on the teleprompter.

luutzu said:

Muslims breeds like rabbits, breed as much as Catholics.

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They certainly outbreed Catholics in Italy. The also breed far more criminals.

2% of Italy is Muslim, 35% of Italian Prisoners are Muslim

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(that includes)181 Imams. That’s reasonably impressive. It also suggests that Imams may have a higher rate of criminality than the general population which is not surprising.

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http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dg...is-muslim-35-of-italian-prisoners-are-muslim/

Value Collector said:

you and I have been through this before, if we are talking about Christianity, then its core teachings of children being born sinners worthy of internal punishment, personal redemption through human torture and sacrifice of another person (scape goating), the idea of eternal punishment for finite crimes, etc etc, many more examples.

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So where is the line drawn between evil and misguided ?

Evil is the intention to do people harm. I don't believe that the misguided people who believe the above principles are evil, because in their minds they want to "save" people rather than do them harm.

I think you are over reacting a trifle.

Calliope said:

They certainly outbreed Catholics in Italy. The also breed far more criminals.



http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dg...is-muslim-35-of-italian-prisoners-are-muslim/

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So 65%, or the majority, of criminals in Italy are not Muslims. The non-Muslim population are majorily criminal as represented by that stat.

To do the 2% population but 35% criminal interpretation you must be a bit thoughtful than that. For example, of the 2% Muslims, how many are from broken homes, how many have no education or job prospects, how many fits the profile of a typical criminal - say, from poor background, tend to be discriminated against, little education to speak of... then, what kind of crimes were they charged with. Murder, White collar crimes, or your typical bag snatching and minor misdemeanors.

I'm not excusing crimes... the law is what is it and we all ought to live within it or else be punished as stated. But to make that leap from that stat and conclude that most Muslims are criminals, and imply that they committed crimes because of their faith. That is absurd and cannot be taken seriously.

I'll write a big post that everyone will ignore!.

I got into emergency management, and later pandemic planning, via my early career of counter-terrorism (later they took my lack of academic qualifications in pandemic control against my prior interest in bio-terror). If you think I'm boasting, you have no idea how hard it is to get a job in ***anything other than that***.

And also, if anyone knows of ANY job in the ACT area, I'll take it. Seriously. If you want to test the effects of electrodes on testicle and pay a decent wage, I'm there...

...anyway:

Islam is at war.

On one side, the vast majority who have been taught that Islam is a religion of peace, and that the great jihad is the internal one, where you strive to become something better.

On the other side we have two forces: the first, a tiny minority (less than a million, vs a THOUSAND million) who want to call Islam "the religion of war". Allied to those - but, seriously, having no idea they're on the same side as the terrorists - all those people who also say Islam is a religion of war, not peace. Lots of newspaper and radio commentators come to mind.

The Koran clearly states that Muslims are NOT allowed to fight people who don't want to fight. Even if they know the other side is asking for a peace treaty just so they can gather more forces for another war, the Koran forbids Muslims to fight.

It cannot be stressed more: the terrorists are not Muslims. They say they are, but they say a LOT of idiotic ****.

They are trying, as hard as they can, to convince the world - and especially Muslims - that they represent what Islam is supposed to be. That is, in essence, what this whole war is about. These guys are trying to take over Islam.

So far they are failing.

And this is the most important bit:

For every non-Muslim these terrorists have killed, they have killed 10 Muslims.

In Saudi Arabia, there is a dictatorship that enforces this really messed up (and recent) cult of "Wahhabism". Look it up. I'll wait.

Wahhabi terrorists have been a scourge in the 100-odd years they've existed. If you doubt, have a good hard look at what life is like in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA). We don't discuss it in the same way we discuss the almost-as-bad North Korea because, simply, they have a lot of oil in the KSA.

THAT is what's messed up in Islam. Wahhabis are what we should call the terrorists. Not Muslim, not even Sunni. They're Wahhabis.

Sure, there are red-neck country-folk hill tribes in Afghanistan and Pakistan and some other places who (like almost all inbred hill-folk everywhere) treat their women like crap, and kill anyone who'd different. It's like an ancient Chinese riddle with no answer: what stops Pashtuns from killing you, if you're not Pashtun? There's a reason Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. The Pashtun national sport is "killing everyone else".

Look hard enough and you'll see how hard Pakistan tries to direct their own Pashtuns against anyone but them. Note well: the Pakistani Taliban are completely different to the Afghan Taliban. Seriously, go look that up! Don't trust me. But see: different people, different enemies, different objectives.

And Pakistan managed to convince America (in a deal to let them attack Afghan Taliban in the provinces, and/pr a deal to let them take out Bin Laden) to hit the Pakistani Taliban - and now the local Pashtun have a sudden hardon for killing Yanks. Hurray for diplomacy!

But even the Pashtun kill mostly twelver shiites. You think they kill a lot of Americans? Look at their kills on the poor bloody Hazara compared with their kills on Yanks. And half the Hazara dead are kids...

So you've got Islam.

One part is Shiite (if you like, think of these as Catholics).

On the other side is Sunni (Protestant).

Part of the Sunnism is Wahhabism (think of them as the old Puritan "cold is god's way of telling us to burn more Catholics" version of Protestants)

So, recent example: the Wahhabis from Libya had lots of good weapons from the fall of Gaddafi. They go down to "help" their Sunni friends in Mali. Now the Malian Sunnis are a famous military tribe, the Taurags. ****ing badass. Those light-cavalry troops that always show up as the villain in Foreign Legion or other desert-north-Africa movies? Taurags.

Only with Tauregs, the MEN go veiled (the blue veils and turbans, so famous in the old movies), and the women go uncovered and own the property. Because religion, surprise surprise, is all about interpretation. It's culture, with validation.

(Note well: the Koran doesn't actually tell ANYONE to go veiled. Most "Muslim" dress is actually "Saudi" dress. But they're rich, so culture travels).

So these Wahhabis show up with their technicals and captured RPGs and roll the top half of Mali.

Now the short story is that the French step up (and anyone who doubts the courage of the French aren't paying attention) and flatten the idiots. But the detail shows the Tauregs were just about to kill the bastards themselves. Had actually already started.

Young Taureg women are encouraged to try the field a bit before they settle down. The Saudi Wahhabis went NUTS. There are hilarious Wahhabi letters expressing bafflement that the standard Saudi punishments against male-female fraternisation were not well received by the locals.

Here's a great write-up: https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/jihadi-middle-manager/


And those guys are fellow SUNNIS.

The Shiites ****ing hate them.

Most of the Muslims refugees we get in Australia are Shiites. They are our allies against the terrorists.

That's what annoys me about our own hostility to Muslims. If we'd called it "Wahhabi" from the start, at least we'd have some perspective.

Instead we reinforce the terrorists' own point of view: that all Islam is Wahhabi. THOSE are the guys who want Sharia!

It'd be like pretending all Catholics should be IRA.

STOP LISTENING TO THEM. Look! Use your eyes! here are thousands of Muslims killed by the Wahhabis, and a few of us (by comparison...) and WE HATE ALL MUSLIMS! No!!!!! Most Muslims are on OUR SIDE!!!!

Very interesting and thought provoking Weatsop, I think you could be right.

It's a sectarian war with the west in the middle.

OK, pick our favourite sect and to hell with the rest.

Weatsop said:

I'll write a big post that everyone will ignore!.

IIt'd be like pretending all Catholics should be IRA.

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Fighting the urge