Is there a GOD?

[roland]

Can the belief in God co-exist with a belief in evolution?

From a scientific evidence point of view, there certainly is a very good argument for the evolution of humans from what we term as cavemen, or Neandethals.

I suppose we could ignore trying to work with unrealistic time frames like "God created the world in 7 days" (maybe to God, a day is really a lot longer). Maybe the "7 days" could be more like a few million years, measured in our terms.

If God created the first male (Adam from the bible) in his own image, and we do believe in evolution i.e. evolving from apes - then what does that make God to be?

 

[peric1]

God exists if you want him to exist...it may be that the notion of a God is actually just a figment of your imagination, who really knows?
Do i believe that a God exists? Yes
Why? because i really dont think we are on this planet for a joy ride to create the evils that we do and then just die. We all have our own place on earth and the sooner people become accepting of themselves, then they can become accepting of others...maybe thats what everyone actually needs to do in order to find God, actually accept themselves before they are able to accept others, including a God
i will admit that at this point in time i really dont care about religion so much, but i still find that a lot of my own beliefs do find their roots in christian teachings...but i guess this is to be expected being raised a catholic right?

 

[bunyip]

Can the belief in God co-exist with a belief in evolution?

From a scientific evidence point of view, there certainly is a very good argument for the evolution of humans from what we term as cavemen, or Neandethals.

I suppose we could ignore trying to work with unrealistic time frames like "God created the world in 7 days" (maybe to God, a day is really a lot longer). Maybe the "7 days" could be more like a few million years, measured in our terms.

If God created the first male (Adam from the bible) in his own image, and we do believe in evolution i.e. evolving from apes - then what does that make God to be?

No no no Roland....not 7 days. Such was God's capacity for hard work that he needed just 6 days to complete the job, then on the 7th day he had a spell.

 

[roland]

God exists if you want him to exist...it may be that the notion of a God is actually just a figment of your imagination, who really knows?
Do i believe that a God exists? Yes
Why? because i really dont think we are on this planet for a joy ride to create the evils that we do and then just die. We all have our own place on earth and the sooner people become accepting of themselves, then they can become accepting of others...maybe thats what everyone actually needs to do in order to find God, actually accept themselves before they are able to accept others, including a God
i will admit that at this point in time i really dont care about religion so much, but i still find that a lot of my own beliefs do find their roots in christian teachings...but i guess this is to be expected being raised a catholic right?

This is actually a very good take on the subject peric1. I think the biggest problem are the organisations, individuals, companies etc. that are using religion and the belief (or fear if you don't believe) in God to facilitate their own desires for wealth or power.

I guess it depends on how you define God. If God is a being that sits above the earth and keeps an eye on what's going on like in the movies - then I think that is extremely hard to believe.

Way back when God was something that really affected our lives, like the Sun or some other natural things that made our crops grow, or influenced our environment or climate - then one would want to believe and give thanks when things were rosey - God then was very believable - and you could even see "him"

We even used to have many Gods, almost one for every variable in our lives, how many did the ancient Greeks or Egyptians have?

If you define God as a belief, then of course God exists. Trying to disprove or prove a belief or an individuals thought (call it imagination if you like) is hopeless.

God is going to be different to each and every individual. People, organisations, companies, churches or religious fanatics who try to quantify God using someone elses thought, belief, rule, written word, law or whatever will, in my opinion, most likely be wrong.

 

[bunyip]

lol, bit like the tassie tiger, the yeti, bunyips and pixies at the bottom of my garden!

Hey - steady on there Constable......you're not seriously casting doubt on the existence of bunyips, I hope!

I know at least one bunyip who is very much alive!

 

[roland]

Hey - steady on there Constable......you're not seriously casting doubt on the existence of bunyips, I hope!

I know at least one bunyip who is very much alive!

isn't a bunyip something that falls from the trees in the dead of night whilst you are camping in the bush, making a hell of a thump and scaring you to death ?

 

[wayneL]

Wayne if you're not a creationist, then the comment wasn't directed at you.

btw, So long as you don't say that
a) the "creationism-bible-version" and
b) 'evolution' (including the idea that we are all "flukes of the universe, no less tan the trees and the stars") ..

are "leaps of faith" of equal magnitude.

I've heard some pretty fanciful theories from the scientific community from time to time.

But people of your ilk continue to pound "creationism-bible-version" in your argument against any open minded seekers of truth. While you people do that, the argument is disingenuous, as there are very few (if any) young earth creationists involved in the discussion.

It is, dare I say, a straw man of monumental proportions.

We all know the agenda of religion is one thing, but serious discussion on the topic of the origins of life is quite another, While muppets continue to blur the two concepts, it is impossible to take evolutionists seriously in any genuine discussion.

Their's seems to be an emotional, rather than scientific imperative. The argument technique and urgency to proselytize is telling.

 

[roland]

I've heard some pretty fanciful theories from the scientific community from time to time.

But people of your ilk continue to pound "creationism-bible-version" in your argument against any open minded seekers of truth. While you people do that, the argument is disingenuous, as there are very few (if any) young earth creationists involved in the discussion.

It is, dare I say, a straw man of monumental proportions.

We all know the agenda of religion is one thing, but serious discussion on the topic of the origins of life is quite another, While muppets continue to blur the two concepts, it is impossible to take evolutionists seriously in any genuine discussion.

Their's seems to be an emotional, rather than scientific imperative. The argument technique and urgency to proselytize is telling.

Wow wayneL, either I am pretty stupid - or you are expressing yourself on a level that most here would have trouble understanding. Like me, there are probably others that are just 4th form (year 10 I think they call it now).

From the tone of the response I am assuming you are disagreeing with the quote you provided ?????

 

[bunyip]

isn't a bunyip something that falls from the trees in the dead of night whilst you are camping in the bush, making a hell of a thump and scaring you to death ?

In aboriginal legend, a Bunyip is a frightening creature that inhabits billabongs and can be heard moaning in a most spine-chilling manner in the dead of the night. No way would any of the old style aboriginals go near a billabong or water hole of any description after dark.

 

[roland]

In aboriginal legend, a Bunyip is a frightening creature that inhabits billabongs and can be heard moaning in a most spine-chilling manner in the dead of the night. No way would any of the old style aboriginals go near a billabong or water hole of any description after dark.

Your wife or girlfriend must be suffering from lack of sleep or have the fortitude of a seasoned bear trader!

 

[wayneL]

From the tone of the response I am assuming you are disagreeing with the quote you provided ?????

Not in and of itself, but in the context it was used. i.e To regress the argument to Science vs The Bible.

 

[2020hindsight]

talking about strawman arguments

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creationist

 

[bunyip]

Your wife or girlfriend must be suffering from lack of sleep or have the fortitude of a seasoned bear trader!

My wife doesn't lose any sleep on account of my moaning in the dead of night. Matter of fact she's usually the cause of it!

 

[wayneL]

talking about strawman arguments

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creationist

And how is this relevant to the current discussion?

It ain't! Nobody here is arguing for creationism as per the definition above.

Now FFS, stop cluttering up the thread with irrelevancies!

 

[Sean K]

Unfortunately, I miss a lot of the sparring these days because I can't see all the posts, and the time zone sucks....


I ask this VERY serious question however.....

Has ANYONE held up 'God', yet........

No one......

No, you cannot hold up God, you can only provide a concept, or a 'belief'. This is not even 'understanding', because an 'understanding' requires evidentiary proof. In fact, there are now so many different variations and manifestations of God, that to say there is 'a GOD' is monumentally absurd.

This discussion needs to go down another line I suspect.

Why do we need to ‘create’ a God?

That is the question, worth answering, IMVHO.

And, this will lead us to our God...

 

[wayneL]

Unfortunately, I miss a lot of the sparring these days because I can't see all the posts, and the time zone sucks....


I ask this VERY serious question however.....

Has ANYONE held up 'God', yet........

No one......

No, you cannot hold up God, you can only provide a concept, or a 'belief'. This is not even 'understanding', because an 'understanding' requires evidentiary proof. In fact, there are now so many different variations and manifestations of God, that to say there is 'a GOD' is monumentally absurd.

This discussion needs to go down another line I suspect.

Why do we need to ‘create’ a God?

That is the question, worth answering, IMVHO.

And, this will lead us to our God...

Many eastern philosophies say that "Is there a God" is entirely the wrong question.

Lao Tzu basically says; forget trying to figure all that crap out, just concentrate on your own mind/actions.

That is certainly more useful.

 

[bunyip]

Unfortunately, I miss a lot of the sparring these days because I can't see all the posts, and the time zone sucks....


Why do we need to ‘create’ a God?

That is the question, worth answering, IMVHO.

And, this will lead us to our God...

Why do we need to 'create' a god? We don't need to at all, but some people just can't seem to understand this.
We need to create a belief in ourselves so that we can make our own way in life, make our own choices, choose our own actions. A belief in ourselves can give us considerable fortitude in times of trouble, it can be our biggest ally when the chips are down. By believing in ourselves we can make considerable progress in life in our chosen endeavours and pursuits.
If a belief in a Christian God was an essential prerequisite to achievement, then Christians would be the only people who ever achieve anything of note.
Obviously there are many people of different religions, as well as many with no religion, who have made noteworthy achievements in their lives.

I do, however, see one very clear advantage of Christianity, in that its ten commandments lay out some firm rules for living a life of decency and integrity, with due consideration for others. If every person on this planet was to live his or her life in accordance with these rules, the world would be a much better place. Crime would disappear, it'd be safe to walk around our cities again, even at night, even if you were female, nobody would ever break into your house or try to pinch you wife or husband, wars would cease. And so on and so on.
It's never going to happen, of course. But wouldn't it be nice if it did!

 

[roland]

Any guesses, or statistical facts on what percentage of the world believes in God?

For something that may or may not exist there is one hell of a following.

 

[bunyip]

Many eastern philosophies say that "Is there a God" is entirely the wrong question.

Lao Tzu basically says; forget trying to figure all that crap out, just concentrate on your own mind/actions.

That is certainly more useful.

My thoughts exactly.

Never heard of Lao Tzu. Clearly he's a practical man of considerable intelligence.

I'll do a Google on him, see what information I can dig up. Anyone with that level of common sense is worthy of further investigation.

 

[2020hindsight]

Why do we believe in God
and why do we need to believe in God.
This one from post #171 or #172.
It's a "feel good" thing.

And sure some people end up in a predicament where they are stronger because of their religion - or conversely would be weaker without it - doesn't mean to say it is right. Simply shows that the human mind is susceptible to suggestion, even self-hypnosis - and with a pack mentality needs "big Alpha". (imo)

Proof for Creator is in Creation

...
1. people of your ilk continue to pound "creationism-bible-version"
2. in your argument against any open minded seekers of truth. While you people do that, the argument is disingenuous, as there are very few (if any) young earth creationists involved in the discussion.

...
3. We all know the agenda of religion is one thing, but
4. serious discussion on the topic of the origins of life is quite another, While muppets continue to blur the two concepts, it is impossible to take evolutionists seriously in any genuine discussion.

Their's seems to be an emotional, rather than scientific imperative. The argument technique and urgency to proselytize is telling.

1. I don't pound it - I simply mention and respond to the fact that 50% of Americans believe in this young earth creationism. Hell don't shoot me I'm only the messenger. That's alarming surely. (probably partly explains why we get interested in who is gonna lead the US into the next 4 years).

2. I think over the course of this thread I have looked at this thing from as many different directions as anyone else. I used to be an altar boy- (for chissake? - lol). Had to gong the bell 3 times with the "holy, gong, holy, gong, holy, gong - heaven and earth are full of thy glory" stuff.

3. I won't argue with you that the agendas of religion are many and varied.

4. And I won't argue with you that "it is impossible to take (young earth) creationists (oops) seriously in any genuine discussion".
Trouble is that 50% of Americans believe in it. - And (the good news) there is thread around here that found that in Aus, we are much more enlightened.

Why do Americans believe adamantly in the God-of-the-Bible-word-for-word? That has to come down to some sense of denial.