Is there a GOD?

[chops_a_must]

No leather shoes, belts, seats in your car, never eaten an egg, your block of land wasn't cleared of trees, no concrete that you step on during the day, never take transport that uses coal, use gas, lights powered by the national grid... etc, etc....endless list. I have an affinity to Deep Ecology but unless I disgard my culture, my family, my friends, and life as I know it, I can not live it. So, I choose to live in my culture, and I invest in uranium stocks (now and then), which allows me to live the best life that I can in the culture I was born in to.

No I don't have leather shoes, belts or seats and the leather jacket I wear while riding is second hand.

But I think you are missing the point. Arne Naess says that being a part of the world means acknowledging that in order to live, you are inevitably going to do some damage to the environment that supports you. The key is to recognising this; that is not to say excusing it.

Continuing to give money to uranium miners appears to be a failing in the recognition of the wider implications it will have i.e. use in a possible meltdown, use in weapons or radioactive dumping in third world nations. All three being environmentally disasterous. It is the giving up of material gains that are at the expense of the environment that is key to Deep Ecology. And once again that is not to say you can't have material gains at the same time as a benefit to the environment. No-one is forcing anyone to invest in certain areas. I'm sure I'm not the only ethical investor on this site.

Cheers,
Chops.

 

[Sean K]

No I don't have leather shoes, belts or seats and the leather jacket I wear while riding is second hand.......... No-one is forcing anyone to invest in certain areas. I'm sure I'm not the only ethical investor on this site.

Cheers,
Chops.

Haven't you got investments in O&G?

 

[chops_a_must]

Haven't you got investments in O&G?

Yes, but I pick and choose which ones carefully and generally stay away from oil. I would never invest in WPL for instance due to its track record, socially and environmentally.

As to gas, I don't have a problem. It's actually advocated by the department at uni as the solution to the transition between coal and renewables over the next 50 years.

 

[Sean K]

Yes, but I pick and choose which ones carefully and generally stay away from oil. I would never invest in WPL for instance due to its track record, socially and environmentally.

As to gas, I don't have a problem. It's actually advocated by the department at uni as the solution to the transition between coal and renewables over the next 50 years.

So, you obviously don't drive a car, or you don't travel by car?? Or public transport? And you don't have a house with any steal in it? Maybe you live in a grass hut?

I am not saying that we should ever try to escape the use of the Earths riches, but those that say they are absolutely committed to this, or that, need to think about all that they do. Maybe you have, so good for you. I certainly haven't! This computer I'm using if full of contradictions....But I recognise it for a start....

 

[chops_a_must]

So, you obviously don't drive a car, or you don't travel by car?? Or public transport? And you don't have a house with any steal in it? Maybe you live in a grass hut?

I am not saying that we should ever try to escape the use of the Earths riches, but those that say they are absolutely committed to this, or that, need to think about all that they do. Maybe you have, so good for you. I certainly haven't! This computer I'm using if full of contradictions....But I recognise it for a start....

I have to drive, I don't get a choice given my type of work and the fact I live in Perth. If I lived in Melbourne I wouldn't drive though.

I'm surprised you are so defensive about this. I didn't expect that. I agree with you in a lot of ways. I have had big arguments with people about environmental matters such as the ones above. "Ban mining, erect solar panels", is one shortened argument I react badly to. Especially explaining to them the effing materials needed to make such things.

I am not a Deep Ecologist, I don't think it is practical, but if you do understand it, it will change your outlook. I have a cut off point with certain things. Uranium, coal and oil without strict safeguards and procedures are mine. And that is the result of deep ecological questioning for instance...

To me, if you haven't amended anything you are doing after learning through or about deep ecology, then I'm not sure if you have taken on anything at all.

Perhaps time for an ethical investing thread?

 

[Sean K]

Perhaps time for an ethical investing thread?

I'm surviving by having money in a ethical investment fund! That has investments in BHP.

 

[chops_a_must]

I'm surviving by having money in a ethical investment fund! That has investments in BHP.

WTF??? Hahaha.

Oh well, at least we can laugh hey?

 

[Pat]

Pat, have you heard of a guy called John Seed, and Deep Ecology? If not, I think it might interest you. I first read about him in a book called The Future of God by Samantha Trenoweth where she interviews 10 of the worlds spititual leaders from all faiths, from Catholicism to Indigenous beliefs. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in God and religion actually.

Anyway, John Seed was one of the people interviewed. It was what I felt closest to at the time.

Deep Ecology

Never heard of John Seed but am familiar with the philosophy. I personally don't read into it to much, I guess I have my own religion and beliefs derived from other religions and personal experience. My father is big on spirituality etc, he's from Quito would you believe.
Humans have been given a gift, from Mother Nature, which enables us to manipulate our environment to an extent. Slowly we are learning how to use this gift to benefit ourselves now and in the future.... the web metaphor. We should wear leather shoes, because we can, as long as it does not do irreparable damage to the web. The Web is strong, one day nature will find its equilibrium. Will we be around to see it?
Something to consider... the earth is just a strand in the web of life.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Never heard of John Seed but am familiar with the philosophy. I personally don't read into it to much, I guess I have my own religion and beliefs derived from other religions and personal experience. My father is big on spirituality etc, he's from Quito would you believe.
Humans have been given a gift, from Mother Nature, which enables us to manipulate our environment to an extent. Slowly we are learning how to use this gift to benefit ourselves now and in the future.... the web metaphor. We should wear leather shoes, because we can, as long as it does not do irreparable damage to the web. The Web is strong, one day nature will find its equilibrium. Will we be around to see it?
Something to consider... the earth is just a strand in the web of life.

pats post promted me to say this....

Throughout the world there is a perpetuation of anger/violence and revenge.Yes.From individual to groups.I see harnessing the mind as `the greatest obstacle` for humans to overcome.This will not happen any time soon .Why?No one has an understanding of how the mind works.Worse than that is as the `problem children` (the ones with destructive thoughts) grow up ,that is the cycle perpetuating.

The society control here is to punish these problem children ,without reversing or removing the destructive thoughts.These children grow up and pass these abberations to their children and others along the way.Perpetuating the cycle of and by violence and destruction.They grow up to be leaders of nations (some with their plans to destroy disguised).

As simply as it takes one bomb to kill many people it takes one destructive mind to do it.One punch of a kid at school shatters that childs confidence and perception of the world.So it is in the adults world too.Perpetuating that bitter cycle.

God isn`t going to change this.It is only ourselves ,the human species, that can harness mind.Sadly most are oblivious (blind in one eye), ignorant (punishment solution) or helpless victims to "wrongs".

Truthfully,I don`t see us humans as `using` mind with any great benefit or balance to nature.Quite the opposite.Wanting more is the reason why.

 

[Pat]

pats post promted me to say this....

Throughout the world there is a perpetuation of anger/violence and revenge.Yes.From individual to groups.I see harnessing the mind as `the greatest obstacle` for humans to overcome.This will not happen any time soon .Why?No one has an understanding of how the mind works.Worse than that is as the `problem children` (the ones with destructive thoughts) grow up ,that is the cycle perpetuating.

The society control here is to punish these problem children ,without reversing or removing the destructive thoughts.These children grow up and pass these abberations to their children and others along the way.Perpetuating the cycle of and by violence and destruction.They grow up to be leaders of nations (some with their plans to destroy disguised).

As simply as it takes one bomb to kill many people it takes one destructive mind to do it.One punch of a kid at school shatters that childs confidence and perception of the world.So it is in the adults world too.Perpetuating that bitter cycle.

God isn`t going to change this.It is only ourselves ,the human species, that can harness mind.Sadly most are oblivious (blind in one eye), ignorant (punishment solution) or helpless victims to "wrongs".

Truthfully,I don`t see us humans as `using` mind with any great benefit or balance to nature.Quite the opposite.Wanting more is the reason why.

Sadly this is a possibility, the human civilisation may not survive this technological adolescence. Our ways need changing.
In saying the above Wysiwyg, it only takes one positive thought or action to change an individual. When Steve Irwin Passed, very sad, Foxtels Animal planet showed one advert that struck me on an emotional level.... Something along the lines of, " if we can teach people about nature etc, they will learn to love it, and want to protect it". Not the exact wording but enough to get the drift. If we are teaching our kids this today, then tomorrow will be a better day.
Slowly we are waking up, it's never too late.... though some say "Time is the fire in which we burn". Can we change quick enough to harbour the society we live in today?

 

[wayneL]

ahh u mean Deep Ecology?

Isnt that another word for "Obsessive Greenee"?

Dont tell me your anther tree hugging hippi? If you are you definately need a god

God doesn't like trees? WTF?

My God is certainly different to your God.

 

[wayneL]

ahh u mean Deep Ecology?

Isnt that another word for "Obsessive Greenee"?

Dont tell me your anther tree hugging hippi? If you are you definately need a god

Here's what your God has to say.

Revelation 11:18
The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great”” and for destroying those who destroy the earth."

 

[Pat]

God doesn't like trees? WTF?

My God is certainly different to your God.

All gods are one, the same. We all have different perspectives. I would say that one side of god hates trees, I'd hope so, one fell on my home during the central coast, Newcastle storm.

 

[wayneL]

All gods are one, the same. We all have different perspectives. I would say that one side of god hates trees, I'd hope so, one fell on my home during the central coast, Newcastle storm.

Of course, my point was rhetorical.

 

[Pat]

Of course, my point was rhetorical.

Hmmmmmm, we segregate ourselves?

 

[wayneL]

Hmmmmmm, we segregate ourselves?

I don't know where you're going with that comment... but it appears that we do.

This is not a good thing though. (IMO)

 

[Pat]

I don't know where you're going with that comment... but it appears that we do.

This is not a good thing though. (IMO)

Wasn't going anywhere really, just came to thought. Certianly not a good thing in this respect.... Could this be a reason for humanities troubles?

 

[wayneL]

Wasn't going anywhere really, just came to thought. Certianly not a good thing in this respect.... Could this be a reason for humanities troubles?

Most certainly it is. But it is not that folks have different beliefs and customs. There are instances of cultures and religions happily living side by side for extended periods.

The trouble is the dogmatism with which beliefs are held. For instance, Ageo presumes Chops "needs" God... and presumably his catholic version of God, because he holds the environment important enough to try and preserve.

This is clearly dogma and doesn't actually make a lot of sense. I would argue that conservation is a far more spiritual pursuit than the rape and pillage of the landscape for profit (note the exclusion of the word "religious"). But by logical extrapolation, Ageo feels that a man of religion should NOT also be a conservationist.

Do you see where I am going? In other words, my initial comments were the use of irony to expose a nonsense.

Cheers

 

[Ageo]

God doesn't like trees? WTF?

My God is certainly different to your God.

lol i was referring to that being a greenie is different to maintaining our environment. (and please lets not turn this into a greenie argument). But perhaps Deep Ecology is different (from what ive read) it just "sounds" like a obessesive greenie title.

Revelation 11:18
The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great”” and for destroying those who destroy the earth."

My God didnt say that, humans did

 

[Pat]

Most certainly it is. But it is not that folks have different beliefs and customs. There are instances of cultures and religions happily living side by side for extended periods.

The trouble is the dogmatism with which beliefs are held. For instance, Ageo presumes Chops "needs" God... and presumably his catholic version of God, because he holds the environment important enough to try and preserve.

This is clearly dogma and doesn't actually make a lot of sense. I would argue that conservation is a far more spiritual pursuit than the rape and pillage of the landscape for profit (note the exclusion of the word "religious"). But by logical extrapolation, Ageo feels that a man of religion should NOT also be a conservationist.

Do you see where I am going? In other words, my initial comments were the use of irony to expose a nonsense.

Cheers

You mean faith.
"The most potent element of human existance is faith". Can't remeber where i heard that.
I, 100% agree, conservation is much more refined than the other. I wish it seemed logical to everyone.