Is there a GOD?

[Julia]

I don't know whether earthquakes are a result of our sin, but I do know that paedophiles are definitely a result of sin! There is nothing in evolutionary theory that explains why we would defile our children with unspeakable acts - does it happen with any other species - I don't think so! The fact that God is omnipotent and omnipresent and omniscient just means that he knows what's going on, can and does hold the universe together with his power, and is able to be beside every person caring about them and waiting for them to turn to him. He isn't going to step in and stop every accident or tragedy because what would be the point in creating us with free will, or in his image? If he intervened every step of the way, he may as well not have created in the first place.

I guess what I am questioning is not just the perverted behaviour of paedophiles but how a "loving God" can allow little children to be so damaged ?

 

[tech/a]

Hmm

From The beginning to now.
Billions of years
From Dinosaurs to Human life
Millions of years
From Human life to concepts of "God"
1000s of years.
From concepts of "gods" to religion
A few 1000 years.

How is it that the human race can be so arrogant to think that it has the ANSWER to everything in an INVENTED "god/s".(The fables or truths grew from somewhere and someone).

In the scheme of existance of our dimension and even further in ALL dimensions (Of which science has proven 12) the human race is as significant as a single grain of sand in all the sands of the planet earth.

This species believes that its god/s created all.
We over estimate our place I suspect.

 

[wayneL]

Folks,

You've all got the dude in the sky meme. That's only one perception of what God is, out of an infinite possibility.

Open your minds.

Cheers

 

[Woodchips]

...I'm simply questioning the underlying assumption that "faith in God" = "believe without reason"...

...You seem to be more of an empiricist and I'm more of a rationalist...

...I approach it all from a framework that says people can have warrant for beliefs and be rational in their beliefs unless a compelling defeator overturns a belief. Not everything needs to be empirical...

Tradesim,

Yes mate, it is possible to come to the conclusion that a God exists through rational thought, but to do so requires an objective approach to the question of whether or not a God exists in the first place. To have faith means to believe without question. To conclude that a God exists through faith jumps from the question to the conclusion without any rational thought processes whatsoever. And reason is essentially the capacity for rational thought. So I would argue that although it is possible to believe in God with reason, it is not possible to have faith in God with reason. And that is essentially the problem with mainstream religion, it teaches people to have faith in the existence of a God rather than allowing its followers to arrive at the conclusion themselves through the process of rational thought. Keep in mind that even though a purely rationalist approach does not have to involve empirical evidence, it does require an element of objectivity and consistency in thought.

However, when it comes to an explanation of the physical world around us empiricism is the most reliable and objective method around. Rational thought must accept factual/empirical analysis if it is available. So if mainstream Christians were truly rational in their beliefs, they would dismiss many of the fallacies presented to them in the bible on account of clear and concise factual analysis. But once again, they choose to believe in these stories on faith which precludes any attempt at rational thought.

So im not sure what they taught you in Phil101 but as far as im concerned faith and reason are completely incompatible.

WC

 

[AnalysisParalysis]

Watched these short, 8 minute videos on Revelation. Good viewing. All lines up with scripture, although the Sabbath keeping part could be debatable.

http://www.worldslastchance.com/videos.php

Let me know what you guys think. You're a fairly intelligent bunch. Watch them without any bias. All of bible prophecy has come to pass so far. There's no reason why it would stop now.

 

[Wysiwyg]

If you had never seen a strawberry. I took you to a strawberry bush, picked a ripe strawberry, gave it to you to smell, touch, look at and finally taste.
I then told you that is a "strawberry".
Would everyone agree on that? Yes.Why, because the identification of strawberry is accepted by the majority of people on the planet as truth.

But is this truth, and besides the reason that the majority agree so, or is it simply truth via agreement.

 

[Julia]

Folks,

You've all got the dude in the sky meme. That's only one perception of what God is, out of an infinite possibility.

Open your minds.

Cheers

I bet George Dubya sees the "dude in the sky". Therefore it must be true, as you suggested earlier!
(sorry).

 

[AnalysisParalysis]

If you had never seen a strawberry. I took you to a strawberry bush, picked a ripe strawberry, gave it to you to smell, touch, look at and finally taste.
I then told you that is a "strawberry".
Would everyone agree on that? Yes.Why, because the identification of strawberry is accepted by the majority of people on the planet as truth.

But is this truth, and besides the reason that the majority agree so, or is it simply truth via agreement.

It may be because no-one has disagreed. It's the only thing we've seen that is called strawberry.

 

[Ageo]

I guess what I am questioning is not just the perverted behaviour of paedophiles but how a "loving God" can allow little children to be so damaged ?

Julia have you ever thought that God doesnt direct us in what to do but has given us the power of choice in our actions?

Einstein once said imagination is more important than knowledge as knowledge is limited but imagination is unlimited. When you imagine and visualise how can you do it at such great lengths? to me God (or whatever you might believe in) has the eyes to see at such lengths. When times get tough how can one still believe that they can pull through? to me that answer is faith because faith is true without fact (unlike science). Some things can be answered for and thats where science comes in but some things cant and how do you answer those?

 

[Sean K]

When times get tough how can one still believe that they can pull through? to me that answer is faith because faith is true without fact (unlike science).

Ageo, what you're saying there sounds more like belief in oneself, and family and friends, not belief in anything extraterrestrial. That is where I will be looking when I need comforting; to my inner being, and close friends and family. I suppose, if you don't have those things, then looking towards God is what most will do. It's probably the answer to why so many inmates convert to this or that religion. Because they no longer have any other support.

 

[tech/a]

AGEO

Why is it that this species needs to believe there is something tangible which created all---something it can associate with--In its own image.

Why is it not possible that ALL simply IS and will always be and always has been.

No beginning--no end---no creator and no armageddon ALL will simply continue in whatever form it takes in infinite form and infinite in time.

 

[Sean K]

Ageo, what you're saying there sounds more like belief in oneself, and family and friends, not belief in anything extraterrestrial. That is where I will be looking when I need comforting; to my inner being, and close friends and family. I suppose, if you don't have those things, then looking towards God is what most will do. It's probably the answer to why so many inmates convert to this or that religion. Because they no longer have any other support.

PS, It's also why religion targets young people for conversion. Because they can't think for themselves, and are searching for answers. It's much harder to convert a stable 30 something.

 

[AussiePaul72]

I guess what I am questioning is not just the perverted behaviour of paedophiles but how a "loving God" can allow little children to be so damaged ?

Hi Julia ....not sure if my comments will make things any clearer or not but felt it worth while adding! I'm not a scholar by any means but do believe in God and am a Christian (which doesn't make me perfect or even close...lol)
The way i see it ....God created a perfect world for us to live in but unfortunately the human race chose their way over Gods. I don't think we have any right to blame God for the terrible things that happen in our world. As a race we have a lot to answer for.
However, its not all doom and gloom in my mind ... I believe we all have a choice as to what we believe and hence what happens after this life on earth.
I've read bits and pieces on this thread and think it is great to talk about peoples beliefs and think it is great to see how open people are.
I have to say that i have questioned my beliefs at times, most recently when i went through a marriage seperation and then divorce. However, I have been truly blessed in so many areas of my life .......and my faith is what has got me through the hardships!!

 

[2020hindsight]

might as well post a link to a poem I guess
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=187233&highlight=jesus#post187233
in summary I believe Jesus had some great ideas - applicable to this life - and that 's the part we should concentrate on (imo)

and making his points with the tales of the dove
as well as his dove-tail joints

whenever I set an optimistic target in the carpentry shed, the family chip in ... " yeah yeah, the last miracle maker was a carpenter too"

Sure I agree with Wayne that the wider picture/ discussion should involve a broader concept of god - whatever he/she may look like

 

[barney]

Folks,

You've all got the dude in the sky meme. That's only one perception of what God is, out of an infinite possibility.

Open your minds.

Cheers

Agree Wayne,

Life on earth (in all its forms) is "proof" that life/ living beings exist ........... I require no "faith" at all to percieve that a "higher life form" can exist elsewhere/other dimensions/whatever/wherever .............. It is actually illogical to assume we are the only "life" in the universe ..............

My concept of God/s ............ (theres got to be more than one!! ......... reproduction is a required trait of any living being, right??) ........... is simply a "living entity" who is far more advanced than we are ............ I actually get on pretty well with "God" ............. and I don't go to church!! ........ and I drink copious amounts of amber fluid at times ................. :bier:

Maybe I'll burn in hell for having a distorted view :2evil: .............. but the way I look at it, if "God" is prepared to burn me up in hellfire for all eternity, then he isn't the kind of God I would want to acknowledge in the first place ...........

Too many things we don't understand about life ........... Its important to be open to alternatives ............... Thats my Sunday "sermon" ........... Please place some money (preferably notes) in the plate as you leave ................ Have a nice weekend all.

 

[2020hindsight]

Noun 1. theologist - someone who is learned in theology or who speculates about theology (especially Christian theology)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/theologist

theologian, theologiser, theologizer
...
Doctor of the Church, Doctor - (Roman Catholic Church) a title conferred on 33 saints who distinguished themselves through the othodoxy of their theological teaching; "the Doctors of the Church greatly influenced Christian thought down to the late Middle Ages"

{didn't someone try to tell us back there that religion had been doctored !}

eschatologist - a theologian who specializes in eschatology

futurist - a theologian who believes that the Scripture prophecies of the Apocalypse (as in the Book of Revelations) will be fulfilled in the future

presentist - a theologian who believes that the Scripture prophecies of the Apocalypse (as in the Book of Revelations) are being fulfilled at the present time

preterist - a theologian who believes that the Scripture prophecies of the Apocalypse (as in the Book of Revelations) have already been fulfilled
scholar, scholarly person, student - a learned person (especially in the humanities); someone who by long study has gained mastery in one or more disciplines

Aquinas, Saint Thomas Aquinas, St. Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Aquinas, St. Thomas, Saint Thomas - (Roman Catholic Church) Italian theologian and Doctor of the Church who is remembered for his attempt to reconcile faith and reason in a comprehensive theology; presented philosophical proofs of the existence of God (1225-1274)

Arius - a Greek who was a Christian theologian active in Alexandria and who was declared a heretic for his doctrines about God (which came to be known as Arianism) (256?-336)

Bonhoeffer, Dietrich Bonhoeffer - German Lutheran theologian and pastor whose works concern Christianity in the modern world; an active opponent of Nazism, he was arrested and sent to Buchenwald and later executed (1906-1945)

Jean Caulvin, Jean Cauvin, Jean Chauvin, John Calvin, Calvin - Swiss theologian (born in France) whose tenets (predestination and the irresistibility of grace and justification by faith) defined Presbyterianism (1509-1564)

Actually was looking for Thorreau. (Thoreau?)
She had a great theory (based on study of the Dead Sea Scrolls) about Judas being the leader of the "pro-action" Jewish group to fight the Romans, and Jesus countering with his "beat em by forgiving them" philosophy - more research required on my part

 

[Woodchips]

I require no "faith" at all to percieve that a "higher life form" can exist elsewhere/other dimensions/whatever/wherever .............. It is actually illogical to assume we are the only "life" in the universe ..............Please place some money (preferably notes) in the plate as you leave

And that, if you go back and read my previous post, is an example of belief in God with reason (however accurate). Very different to belief in God through blind faith. I don't personally agree with everything you said but at least you're trying to rationalise your beliefs, well done. Here, here's six cents .

WC

 

[tech/a]

So who created the other Billion or So planets and Stars?

OUR God/s?
Could our God/s be nothing more than Aliens?
2000 years ago lighting a match would have been god like.

I really cant believe that people believe we are the center of Gods/Religion as a species (The Human Race) relative to the infinite everything thats out there that we cannot even comprehend let alone understand.

 

[barney]

And that, if you go back and read my previous post, is an example of belief in God with reason (however accurate). Very different to belief in God through blind faith. I don't personally agree with everything you said but at least you're trying to rationalise your beliefs, well done.

Here, here's six cents

WC

Hi Wood, Six cents !!! I need notes ....... I have a business to run .......... This is a "church" remember ...........

Actually I'm not that cinical about churches really (my parents still attend, and it works for them)

Bottom line here is I guess, ............... Those who choose to believe in God (Christian or otherwise), are unlikely to change their view based on others opinions, and vica versa for those who don't believe ........

I'm happy to stay open minded about things I don't really understand .......... I do know that I've had some "interesting" experiences along the way ......... and not while under the influence of amber fluid either .................................

For example ........... I know that angels exist ............... Cause my wife is one!!! :engel:

 

[dhukka]

So who created the other Billion or So planets and Stars?

OUR God/s?
Could our God/s be nothing more than Aliens?
2000 years ago lighting a match would have been god like.

I really cant believe that people believe we are the center of Gods/Religion as a species (The Human Race) relative to the infinite everything thats out there that we cannot even comprehend let alone understand.

This gets to the crux of why religion lost it's place as the source of legitimacy in western society centuries ago. A couple of thousand years ago it would be easy to accept that Earth was the Universe as we had no knowledge of other planets let alone other solar systems. We actually thought the world was flat, that the sun rose and fell in the sky.

From there it is not hard to believe in a place called heaven somewhere up there beyond what was known. It couldn't be verified by getting in a 747 and taking a look. Nor could we drill to the center of the earth and find Satan's little hideout.

For any religion or myth to survive it must keep up with what society knows about the world. We know there is no heaven or hell - at least in the sense the bible would have us believe.