Is there a GOD?

[Rafa]

well said Kennas...

I certainly thank God for all the good things that happen to me...
I have never once looked at a disaster and said... 'Why is God doing this to me'... Tho i know a lot of beleivers who have... Likewise, a lot of non believers point to disasters to question God's validity.

I have asked for a few things in prayer... somel have been delivered... some not.... Almost always its a direct relationship to how much i have really prayed for it.

Some things get delivered even when i didn't pray for them... like this latest crash , but then, maybe some of you bears have been praying for it... who knows

All i know is, i'll be damned if someone tells me God is benevolent, or God is judgemental, God is this, or God is that, God exists, or God doesn't exisit... etc, etc...

GOD EXISTS FOR ME... Thats all I know.

 

[Julia]

It's just fine with me that those who choose to do so believe in a God.
I simply don't know.

But it's not fine with me when the believers push their beliefs into other people's lives. A friend of mine was repeatedly raped by her father from the age of about 6 until she was a teenager. As an adult she attempted to deal with the physical and emotional damage done to her. A psychologist she consulted was a disciple and told my friend that what had happened was God's way of building her character and she should be grateful!!!!

Here is a dilemma on which I'd be interested to hear others' views.
I have a very dear friend who is about to undergo surgery for an illness where the surgery will almost certainly be palliative at best. She is agnostic though was brought up a Catholic and I suspect that ingrained stuff remains with her when the crunch comes as it has. When I asked her what I could do to support her she surprised me by saying "say a prayer for me".
So I guess she's doing what many people do in a situation like this and reaching out for any hope that might exist.

So, given that I am not truly a believer in the power of prayer, should I offer up some sort of appeal to a God which might be caring for her, or is this the height of hypocrisy?

 

[Ageo]

So, given that I am not truly a believer in the power of prayer, should I offer up some sort of appeal to a God which might be caring for her, or is this the height of hypocrisy?

Julia, do you believe that once loved ones pass on you will never see them again?

 

[tech/a]

should I offer up some sort of appeal to a God which might be caring for her, or is this the height of hypocrisy?

People Like you and I just dont know.
We'd like it to be so.
All logic tells us that at best its faith.
Yet we live our lives to the best of our abilities and to an accepted standard which like it or not has some groundings in religon.

To your question.
I'm sure you'd do anything you could to help your friend and as she has asked that you "Say a prayer" for her then say a prayer I think you should.

So will I.

AGEO
I'm afraid yes.
Ive never seem any of my friends or relatives!
As for anything else--no one has yet proven anything
so all we can do is hope---yet all logic fails for me,
as for the life of me I cant remember anyone before I was born.

We will all know soon enough!

 

[Rafa]

tech/a... great response.

Julia, in the end it comes down to belief... both yours and your friends.
So... yes, I would do as tech/a suggest...

I have just said a prayer too, but i conclude all prayers with
"If it is possible, let this chalice pass from me... But let your will be done, not mine"

or words to that effect...

 

[Ageo]

People Like you and I just
AGEO
I'm afraid yes.
Ive never seem any of my friends or relatives!
As for anything else--no one has yet proven anything
so all we can do is hope---yet all logic fails for me,
as for the life of me I cant remember anyone before I was born.

We will all know soon enough!

tech the reason why i asked such a question is because i believe people dont just die and you never see them ever again. To me they are up there watching over you and things happen in life sometimes that logic cannot explain (thats where faith comes in). Its not so much religion but spirituality.

What about those poor parents that have had their kids pass on before them? do you not believe that they will see them later on?

Too me having some sort of faith will get you through times like you have never experienced before.

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Logic and faith are not polar opposites. Logic itself is not testable by anything external to itself. There is no way to test the veracity of logical arguments and conclusions without recourse to logic. The very act of arguing for or against a system of logic necessarily invokes logical principles. One trusts in logic in a very circular way. It is an internally consistent system. The decision to trust logic is itself an non-logical and untestable decision.

 

[dhukka]

tech the reason why i asked such a question is because i believe people dont just die and you never see them ever again. To me they are up there watching over you and things happen in life sometimes that logic cannot explain (thats where faith comes in). Its not so much religion but spirituality.

What about those poor parents that have had their kids pass on before them? do you not believe that they will see them later on?

Too me having some sort of faith will get you through times like you have never experienced before.

Just wondering where up there is? Must be awful crowded up there by now, what with all the dead people and such. Anyway next time I take a flight I'll keep my eye out for these watchers.

 

[spooly74]

Just wondering where up there is? Must be awful crowded up there by now, what with all the dead people and such. Anyway next time I take a flight I'll keep my eye out for these watchers.

Yep, it`s getting very crowded.

http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock.swf

 

[tech/a]

I reckon Ive read everything from Lobsang Rampa to NDE's.
From Regressive hypnosis to Pastlife analysis.

I'd really love all those escerteric writings and research to be spot on.
I'd love to think and find that there is another place for all of us after death.
That there is actually a spirit and not just a mass of chemicals and DNA which give and extinguish life.

Have a read of Heaven and Hell by Emanual Swedenborg.

But I'm afraid that all I can see is a race who are just as lost as they were from the beginning of mankind. Few answers and more questions.
More sophistocated in approach and determined in will but none the less forever reliant on FAITH.

So to your question.
Those I have lost are always with me---their effect on who I am varies.
When Im gone I to will be with my kids on a level only a father/mother can be.
They have me in them through DNA and life experience with me.So to will those who I have touched through life in various ways.

Will we all meet again.
I just dont know.
What form could it take--well we can conjure up all sorts of beliefs.
In the meantime while I fill in the time between life and death,I live this gift to the fullest---I may never know it again.

Must be awful crowded up there by now

bit of trivia.

If I was to pack all 6 billion people in a cubic box how big would it be.

X by X by X----the answer blew me away!

 

[Uranium]

I am sure you have heard this and i believe it is in the bible(correct me if i am wrong) "And God created man in His own image,"
If this was the case god being man or women he or she would have a navel or belly button therefore would have been born by two parents one women one man so were they gods and what about their parents and so on.?
The bible is full of questions like this one. If the bible (a book) tells us that their is a god and their is no other evidence than this would you believe that their is truly a god?
Dom

 

[dhukka]

bit of trivia.

If I was to pack all 6 billion people in a cubic box how big would it be.

X by X by X----the answer blew me away!

What do we assume the dimensions of the average person are taking into consideration women men and children? Say 120cm tall 30cm wide, 30 cm deep?

 

[tech/a]

I worked on 1400mm X 500mm x 250mm average.

 

[Ageo]

I am sure you have heard this and i believe it is in the bible(correct me if i am wrong) "And God created man in His own image,"
If this was the case god being man or women he or she would have a navel or belly button therefore would have been born by two parents one women one man so were they gods and what about their parents and so on.?
The bible is full of questions like this one. If the bible (a book) tells us that their is a god and their is no other evidence than this would you believe that their is truly a god?
Dom

The bible is man made so its something from another person. Spirituality is 1 on 1. Anywayz there is never going to be an answer on this subject but i agree with Tech.

 

[dhukka]

I worked on 1400mm X 500mm x 250mm average.

1400 x 500 x 250 = 175,000,000 x 6,000,000,000 = 1,050,000,000,000,000,000


cube root of 1,050,000,000,000,000,000 = 1,016,396.4 (rounded)

That's just over a km each side. Doesn't sound right.

 

[Rafa]

i got that too... somethings not right!

regardless, hope its a bit more roomy than that for me, assuming i make it there of course

 

[dhukka]

1400 x 500 x 250 = 175,000,000 x 6,000,000,000 = 1,050,000,000,000,000,000


cube root of 1,050,000,000,000,000,000 = 1,016,396.4 (rounded)

That's just over a km each side. Doesn't sound right.

On second thought it does sound right. If a box were 1km high and the average person was 1.4m then you could stack just over 716 people on top of each other before hitting the top. side by side (.5m) you could stack 2,000 and back to back 4000 (.25m) 2,000 x 4,000 x 716 = 5,728,000,000.

 

[Rafa]

of course its right dhukka...
MATHS DOESNT LIE....

(now there is a loaded statement )

 

[wayneL]

We know there is a God because he told GW Bush to invade Iraq.

 

[Julia]

Julia, do you believe that once loved ones pass on you will never see them again?

Ageo, I honestly don't know. When my grandmother died I had a strong sense of ongoing connection to her, but that can easily be attributed to the sense of loss I felt and that if I had some sort of belief that she was still "with me" in some sort of undefined way, then that was a comfort.

If I had to express a view, I think I'd say that this concept is pretty much like that of religion, i.e. that it is something we create to add meaning to our lives, and to make death less frightening. If we have a concept of some sort of ongoing spiritual existence (which makes no objective sense) then I guess this goes to a sense of meaning as our lives end.

My late father, although utterly scornful of religion, maintained a strong belief in a spiritual existence. I suggested to him that when he died he should send me "a sign"! Well, he has been dead for five years now and I'm still waiting for that sign!

When I look at a box of ashes which are the product of a cremation, I simply can't visualise some sort of spiritual being having escaped the fire.