Is there a GOD?

[Mousie]

'Church goers' actually go to hear about Jesus, not God. Jesus is a historical figure, and an example of what may have been the best way people could live in the year 0. Maybe. That's all. Our 'God' in generic terms, is very, very, different to the God of the Old Testament, and the Holy Trinity. Please do some research on The History of God. It's enlightneing!! I am converted!!!! And faithful.

I took it to be obvious that God to 'church-goers' is in the form of Jesus. On hindsight (apologies to 2020) I should have stated in the passage you quoted me on as: "...God in the form of Jesus" when I refer to church-goers.

Replace 'God' with 'Jesus' in the passage you quoted me on and everything else I say still stands, for that's what I observed.

 

[2020hindsight]

Or, under this hypothesis, everything we think is true can be said to be 'my understanding of events' and not the actual truth. Perception is reality.

Kennas,
just restricting myself to the "perception is reality " (which - I better explain - followed stockGuru's comment that we should all have said, hand on heart, that none of us were sure - ok? - I mean , you gotta have the context - otherwise you'll have bishops confusing actresses ) but .....

two optional replies to this ..
1. you wanna watch out - some of those mushrooms that come out after rain aren't really mushrooms lol.
They're magical !! :silly:

2. or are you starting to talk like
a) Philosophers like Descartes, with his "cogito ergo sum, I think therefore I am, not sure about anything else".
b) Einsten, with his virtual warped universe , (and virtually anything else he says as well)
c) $20shoes (post #71) with his "All in one and one in all" - (no it's not something that you buy at MacDonalds )
d) Philosophers like Robert Zend with his "I have a problem for every solution"
or
e) anon (some really simple philosophy this one ) "Philosophy is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. Religion is finding it." - or if you like "A philosopher is any person who doesn't want what he can't get".

I probably prefer 2e.
But then again ...
f) Plato "Until philosophers are kings cities will never cease from ill , nor the human race" Plato 427 - 347 BC

'Church goers' actually go to hear about Jesus, not God.

PS you're a brave man if you say you can answer for all people of one religion, let alone all religions
PS I used to go because I was told to lol. (except they asked me to sing as quietly as possible)

Rats!! - and I promised someone around here I'd stop posting confusing posts myself !!
Perhaps I'm just a congenital Confusian.

 

[Sean K]

Kennas,
just restricting myself to the "perception is reality " but .....
two optional replies to this ..
1. you wanna watch out - some of those mushrooms that come out after rain aren't really mushrooms lol.
They're magical !! :silly:

I think this is the answer to explain why I was on the computer at 2am this morning. Appologies for anything I said. I can't even remember writing that. What did I mean anyway?.....:hide:

 

[Sean K]

PS you're a brave man if you say you can answer for all people of one religion, let alone all religions

I think what I may have meant by 'perception is reality' supports this. Everybodies idea of God is different in some small way. Even people of one religion attending the same church, or temple, being lectured to by the same Iman. This is each individual's reality, based on their perception. I don't think its brave to make that statement.

 

[2020hindsight]

I think what I may have meant by 'perception is reality' supports this. Everybodies idea of God is different in some small way. Even people of one religion attending the same church, or temple, being lectured to by the same Iman. This is each individual's reality, based on their perception. I don't think its brave to make that statement.

ahhh - penny drops - thanks - spot on (imho)

gee I nearly made a simple posting there

But on the subject of perception / attitude :-

Henry Miller's attitude to grass:
"The moment one gives close attention to anything, even a blade of grass, it becomes a mysterious, awesome, indescribably magnificent world in itself"

versus this local gardener bloke in the park (let's call him a reluctant born-again-optimist lol) who drives up and yells - "get outta the way, or I'll run over you with my Victa" !!

THE RELUCTANT OPTIMIST

Why is the grass so God-damned green, since I decided to smile,
Pain in the arze that it grows so keen, and all on account of my dial,
Kick the damned dog, and stone the damned crows, I’m so sick of starting that mower,
Maybe I’ll frown and sort out the bastard, and then it’ll grow a bit slower.

Why is the sky so God-damned blue, since I decided to laugh
Bloody hot sun, and mowing too, it’s enough to make you barf,
Dog in the way – I could’ve kicked her – making mountains of charf,
Next person gets in the way of my Victa, I’ll cut the bastard in half.

I wanna know why the sun in the morning has got this God-damned hue,
I wanna know why the world without warning can wake to a dream come true
Tell me each day why my God-damned re-borning gets christened with God-damned dew,
Christ it gets tiresome each perfect dawning, It’s enough to make you spew.

 

[Sean K]

But on the subject of perception / attitude :-

Henry Miller's attitude to grass:
"The moment one gives close attention to anything, even a blade of grass, it becomes a mysterious, awesome, indescribably magnificent world in itself"

You're going Zen on me now. Awareness definately makes life more magical. And those mushrooms could help that along too.

 

[Col Lector]

Then again, for some, lawn mowing is the all encompassing religious experience...

 

[2020hindsight]

kennas , Speaking zen and stuff, A few quotes I'll throw in, for you to throw out as you see fit - or of course to counter with more apt quotes that you might be wrapped in :-

The concept of the many coloured glasses, not only smelling the rose, but seeing through rose coloured lenses:-

Ralph Waldo Emerson: Life is a train of moods like a string of beads; and as we pass through them they prove to be many colored lenses, which paint the world their own hue, and each shows us only what lies in its own focus.

The ability to adjust the contrast and the brightness of the TV

Paramahansa Yogananda: Life has a bright side and a dark side, for the world of relativity is composed of light and shadows. If you permit your thoughts to dwell on evil, you yourself will become ugly. Look only for the good in everything so you absorb the quality of beauty.

Spare a thought for Mother Nature who went to the trouble of putting 123 million million million stars up there for us to see - and say you didn't get your money's worth at the fireworks night. !!

Ralph Waldo Emerson: If the stars should appear but one night every thousand years how man would marvel and adore.

The concept of misdirected energies :-

Rebecca West: Did St. Francis really preach to the birds? Whatever for? If he really liked birds he would have done better to preach to the cats.

Then again, for some, lawn mowing is the all encompassing religious experience...

lol - spot on again collector, same goes for gardens

PS that could explain , while on the matter of mowing, I'm an atheist, and my lawn (and garden) are wonders to behold lol.

the lady next door lectures in horticulture - once came by, and asked could she take a few samples from the garden - I said sure, really chuffed that she found our miserable flowers etc worth the trouble.
she replied - yep I'm lecturing on diseases , mould and pests, and I reckon you've got every one in the book here.

 

[Out Too Soon]

Re: Is there a GOD? (How Many?)

I believe that the incontrovertial existence of our conscience, an instinct for judging good from bad proves there is reason to our primitive graspings through our primitive faiths (christianity included).
The fact that otherwise intelligent ppl beleive unquestioningly in current mainstream faiths is an embarrassment for humanity.
There is GOOD & there is EVIL & shades of GREY, the rest is interesting conjecture.

 

[Mofra]

(Apologies to poster on another site who first put this up)

He was born of a virgin on December 25th
His birth was announced by a Star.
His earthly father was named Joseph.
He was of Royal descent.
At age 12 he was a child teacher in a temple.
At age 30 he was baptised after disappearing for 18 years.
He was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana. His baptiser was later decapitated.
He had 12 disciples, two were named John.
He performed miracles.
He walked on water.
He was called the 'Holy Child'.
He delivered a 'sermon on the mount'.
He was crucified, entombed for three days, then resurrected.
He was known as: The Light, The Way, The Truth, The Lamb of God.
He was 'The Fisher'.
He came to fulfil the 'Law'
He was known as 'The KRST'


Who was this figure?

Hint - I am not Jesus, my legend predates him.

 

[Woodchips]

From a scientific point of view, there is no point in constructing a hypothesis about something that by definition you cannot prove. Its a complete waste of time. Not only is the theory impossible to prove, its also impossible to disprove. Go figure.

But this is actually why Christianity has been so successful. It defines what God is, and places Him well outside the realms of reality so that no one can conclusively refute his existence. It then cleverly constructs a story about good and evil, right and wrong, heaven and hell, and teaches its recruits not to question, but simply to accept on faith. Anyone who questions is made to feel guilty, effectively ensuring that the cycle of stupidity continues. Thats why arguing with a believer is the most unfulfilling activity - because you never actually get anywhere. Their arguments are completely circular. You may as well hit your head on a light pole, or poke yourself in the eye with a burnt stick. Still, you have to give it to the clever bastard that invented it, he definitely knew what he was doing.

The correct answer to the question should be: "I have no bloody idea, its just as bloody likely as it is bloody unlikely." The true agnostic.

WC

 

[2020hindsight]

(Apologies to poster on another site who first put this up)

He was born of a virgin on December 25th
His birth was announced by a Star.
His earthly father was named Joseph.
He was of Royal descent.
At age 12 he was a child teacher in a temple.
At age 30 he was baptised after disappearing for 18 years.
He was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana. His baptiser was later decapitated.
He had 12 disciples, two were named John.
He performed miracles.
He walked on water.
He was called the 'Holy Child'.
He delivered a 'sermon on the mount'.
He was crucified, entombed for three days, then resurrected.
He was known as: The Light, The Way, The Truth, The Lamb of God.
He was 'The Fisher'.
He came to fulfil the 'Law'
He was known as 'The KRST'


Who was this figure?

Hint - I am not Jesus, my legend predates him.

I give in - a hermafrodite water walking spider who morphed into a mountain climbing man?

 

[jonojpsg]

What an interesting thread! To add my 2c worth, anyone who thinks that the Bible is a conjob written to keep the masses under control needs to have a look at it's background - it was written by about 40 different guys over a period of about 1300 years, all the books are basically about the same thing, eg God made everything, including us; we stuffed up; he wanted to put us right and ended up having to sacrifice part of himself to do it.

There is more historical/manuscript evidence to support the Bible than any other ancient document, eg if you believe in Julius Caesar, then you have to conclude that the Bible is pretty much on the money.

What you decide to do about it is the real question, eg do you continue to act as if there is no God, or do you acknowledge him and include him?

 

[MS+Tradesim]

(Apologies to poster on another site who first put this up)

He was born of a virgin on December 25th
His birth was announced by a Star.
His earthly father was named Joseph.
He was of Royal descent.
At age 12 he was a child teacher in a temple.
At age 30 he was baptised after disappearing for 18 years.
He was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana. His baptiser was later decapitated.
He had 12 disciples, two were named John.
He performed miracles.
He walked on water.
He was called the 'Holy Child'.
He delivered a 'sermon on the mount'.
He was crucified, entombed for three days, then resurrected.
He was known as: The Light, The Way, The Truth, The Lamb of God.
He was 'The Fisher'.
He came to fulfil the 'Law'
He was known as 'The KRST'


Who was this figure?

Hint - I am not Jesus, my legend predates him.

I think you need to do some more research on Mithras from source scholars rather than internet soapboxes. Start with David Ulansey.

 

[Bluesky]

he wore a number 5 geurnsy and ran about in the geelong jumper.

And now his son wears the number 29 for the mighty cats.
Do we call him Jesus now?

 

[Wysiwyg]

Without a thinking mind there is no god.The reason for life is to perpetuate life , no more and no less.

Why the evolution of thinking?No one knows!

It certainly is not `in tune` with nature.



p.s. from another stupid human but I know no other way.

 

[Trader Paul]

Hi folks,

What if the Christians are right, though ... ???

What if Jesus IS the only way to everlasting life ... ???

What if the way, that we live our lives here on earth,
actually DOES determine our destiny, beyond death ... ???

For some, it would seem like cheap insurance to believe in God
... just in case, Jesus IS the way to everlasting life ... yes???

have a great day

paul

P.S. ..... where are you going, when you die ... ???

 

[stockGURU]

Hi folks,

What if the Christians are right, though ... ???

What if Jesus IS the only way to everlasting life ... ???

What if the way, that we live our lives here on earth,
actually DOES determine our destiny, beyond death ... ???

For some, it would seem like cheap insurance to believe in God
... just in case, Jesus IS the way to everlasting life ... yes???

have a great day

paul

P.S. ..... where are you going, when you die ... ???

What if the Muslims are right?
What if the Buddhists are right?
What if the Hindus are right?
What if the Jews are right?
What if none of them are?

A lot of 'What if's' there Paul.

Ultimately nobody knows or can know the answer to what happens when we die. It's all a guess.

 

[Wysiwyg]

To believe in anything beyond the senses of sight,hearing,touch,smell and taste requires imagination.

Anything intangible is (by the imaginative or not knowing) justified through an imaginative process.What is not proven is imagined and what is imagined is not proven.

With imagination, humans try to explain the inexplicable.

 

[Sean K]

What if the Christians are right, though ... ???

Right that the Earth was created in 7 days? That Moses parted the Red Sea? That you can't have sex before marriage? That you can't use condoms? Or that JC was born to a women who never had sex?

What if Jesus IS the only way to everlasting life ... ???

Everlasting life? Exactly what is that! Please explain. Life where exactly? In the clouds? Where exactly do you go? Give me a GPS coordinate.

What if the way, that we live our lives here on earth,
actually DOES determine our destiny, beyond death ... ???

I live according to my cultures laws the best way I can, which allows me to be the best person I can be in this life, and achieve happiness and contentment for myself and those around me. Exactly what is beyond death? St Peter waiting at the Pearly Gates?

For some, it would seem like cheap insurance to believe in God
... just in case, Jesus IS the way to everlasting life ... yes???

Cheap insurance it is NOT! I can't start with the pain and suffering religion and specifically Christainity has caused to people over the centuries.

P.S. ..... where are you going, when you die ... ???

My ashes will be distributed in the ocean, my memories will live on in those who knew me. Nothing else. Once that's in perspective I can concentrate on THIS life, and make the most of it.


The onus of proof is on the claimant, these rediculous statements only prove you have NO claim.

And yes, I know the answer to all of this is to have Faith. The usual way Christains get out of having to seriously consider all the unanswerable questions.