Is Shorten PM material?

[noco]

I am sure Shorten will be a great asset for the coalition fo some time to come.

 

[MrBurns]

I am sure Shorten will be a great asset for the coalition fo some time to come.

Yes the mealy mouthed little backstabber is fooling no one , Labor are finished.

 

[Whiskers]

40% in favour of Bill Shorten from the party membership.

That is the key point out of all this... but then to only achieve the collective vote of 52%, I'd think most people in senior management would appreciate the difficulty of trying to run an organisation without strong ground floor support and resign as a mark of appreciating the core mandate for a leader of people.

He's going to go the same way as Gillard for a very simple reason... his personal ego is bigger than his political sense.

Either Labor's not even listening to its own or Bill's the sacrificial lamb.

Not sacrificial lambs... Bill and his cohorts are suicidal lambs. Sacrificial implies 'dying' for a greater cause... Shorton is killing the Labor brand in an attempt to further his own cause.

The other concerning number is that only abt 74% of ballots from membership were supposedly returned and counted. I'd like to see an audit of that to confirm that the old fashioned vote rigging from the union days, which Shorton is very familiar, hasn't returned.

Maybe members of political parties can enlighten me here, but doesn't that turnout sound a bit low... especially for a party so gripped in leadership controversy? I mean when deeply contentious issues come up in an organisation you pay membership for, it's a natural tendency for them to want to have their say.

The bottom line, Shorton is not PM material.

He can only lead when others accept him as their leader, and he has only as much authority as his subjects give to him... his subjects, the grass roots, give him a 4 out of 10... that ain't authority!

And to finish on a psychology note;

“Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.”
― Peter F. Drucker​

 

[Julia]

Shorton is killing the Labor brand in an attempt to further his own cause.

What do you mean?

 

[Knobby22]

I actually think Shorten will be good for Labor as he knows how to argue sensitively.
He will argue the case well as an opposition leader which will ensure the Libs don't take the voters for granted.

I think the Drucker quote suits him.

“Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.”
― Peter F. Drucker

If you look at his record in parliament, it is pretty good, particularly compared to most of the others. There were no panic policies and the other crazy stuff such as what we saw from Gillard and Rudd.

And remember, it was the ones who knew him best who voted for him.

 

[wayneL]

Well, I was prepared to give him some time, with the odd disparagement, just to keep my typing fingers honed.

But with his insistence on fighting our Tones on the carbon rip-off, he's lost me. As far as I'm concerned he has proven himself an imbecilic douchebag... An idiot of the highest order, not worthy of the oxygen he robs from the rest of us.

No brain, no honour.

 

[Whiskers]

What do you mean?

The labor grass roots (brand) punished the parliamentary party ivia the ballot box for bad tax policy, back room faction deals and leadership turmoil.

Forget about the caucus vote, they are part of the problem as evidenced by the faithful deserting them at the ballot box.

The message in the membership numbers clearly indicates the Labor 'brand' disowned Gillard and warmed back to Rudd... and even further warmed on news of getting more say in the party.

The surge in new membership after it was declared Rudds leadership ballot rule changes would apply caught my attention. It is conceivable that as widely represented, a surge in labor membership wanting to get involved in a transforming more accountable party was the reason. But, given Shortens union history and the unaudited way ballots and branches were and arguably still are stacked, there must be some doubt in the 74% turnout figure.

There are 43,823 party members eligible to vote via postal ballot to elect the leader. Although membership dipped during the final year of Julia Gillard's prime ministership, it surged when Kevin Rudd returned as prime minister.

Since the election, membership has continued to climb, especially in the biggest states. In NSW, Labor has gained 764 members.

In Queensland, the party has recruited 580 new members. And in Victoria, the party has added about 500 new members. It is because the party is serious about giving members a say.

Shorten and his key followers was clearly a substantial part of everything the membership disowned... to the extent they would resign from the party.

How on earth he expects to win the support of swing voters when he cannot even command a majority, not even a healthy minority of his own party is evidence of his egotism, impulsive, unforseen political suicide... not sacrificial, because the party will rebuild after he is gone.

At the risk of being branded a Rudd fan again, I would point out my commentary is from a tactical, psychological, coach perspective. For a strong government we need a strong opposition of keep account. Neither side of politics is immune from this problem.

While Rudd certainly had some bad policies and made mistakes, his integrity in the face of his party faithful was never badly damaged. The main reason for that was and still is, his passionate loyalty to the notion of popular leadership, as opposed to the back room faction stacking and deal making in the face of and against the wishes of the party faithful. The explanation could be akin to preferring their bus to be driven by a passive drunk they like and can persuade to some extent, than an aggressive drunk they don't like and won't listen to them.

Further cause for concern now that Shorten has the wheel is Labor's national president Jenny McAllister...

Some inside Labor are debating whether or not to enfranchise the one million union members affiliated to the party, adding a third component to the leadership electoral college. Union members are given a vote in the elections of the British and New Zealand Labour Party leaders.

"There is an ongoing role for unions in the party," says McAllister.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...-move-on-leader/story-fnbcok0h-1226733816353#

Dare I say it, Shorten and his caucus associates couldn't fuel the ground for another Rudd comeback better if they tried.

Insult the intelligence and wishes of your grass roots to this extent, especially if it transpires there is any irregularity in the vote or attempt to undermine grass roots wishes by empowering Shortens union mates... then there is only one inevitable result.

This is looking a lot like fate setting up a membership presidential style voting system that may eventually spread to government.

 

[Whiskers]

I actually think Shorten will be good for Labor as he knows how to argue sensitively.

Isn't there a contradiction there Knobby?

I agree he can be persuasive, but sensitive... about as sensitive as a snake oil salesman!

I think the Drucker quote suits him.

“Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.”
― Peter F. Drucker

He certainly gets in the face of the media to try to saturate that view, but wait until he has to weather some critique from the other side and see what dirty linen gets exposed.

If you look at his record in parliament, it is pretty good, particularly compared to most of the others. There were no panic policies and the other crazy stuff such as what we saw from Gillard and Rudd.

But he has unspoken policies none the less... and talking about crazy... wasn't his switching to Gillard the key to all their troubles. He didn't speak out against the badly designed taxes so he shares ownership with that.

As manager of the largest faction, he certainly didn't get that right.

And remember, it was the ones who knew him best who voted for him.

I presume you mean in caucus.

That's the really crazy part... pretending a corrupt caucus is in the best interests of the party... pretending to be labor leader with 40% of membership first preference is not the right thing.

 

[Julia]

Interesting observations, Whiskers. Thanks for the response.

 

[Knobby22]

I agree he can be persuasive, but sensitive... about as sensitive as a snake oil salesman!

Well we shall see.

I presume you mean in caucus.

That's the really crazy part... pretending a corrupt caucus is in the best interests of the party... pretending to be labor leader with 40% of membership first preference is not the right thing.

Well Lib Prime Ministers are voted 100% by the caucus.

Would you have the branches having all the choices?
Imagine if they wanted to vote Kevin back in.....what a horrible thought!

 

[Knobby22]

Well, I was prepared to give him some time, with the odd disparagement, just to keep my typing fingers honed.

But with his insistence on fighting our Tones on the carbon rip-off, he's lost me. As far as I'm concerned he has proven himself an imbecilic douchebag... An idiot of the highest order, not worthy of the oxygen he robs from the rest of us.
.

It's the only stick he has at present and he is getting hit so has to fight back.
He knows the Tories have to drop the ball on this one as they won't have the cash.
He needs to get other directions though but I don't think TA will throw him a bone. TA is actually acting quite measured which is pleasing.

 

[noco]

I actually think Shorten will be good for Labor as he knows how to argue sensitively.
He will argue the case well as an opposition leader which will ensure the Libs don't take the voters for granted.

I think the Drucker quote suits him.

“Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.”
― Peter F. Drucker

If you look at his record in parliament, it is pretty good, particularly compared to most of the others. There were no panic policies and the other crazy stuff such as what we saw from Gillard and Rudd.

And remember, it was the ones who knew him best who voted for him.

But it won't matter with Shorten because if he hasn't heard something whether it is right or wrong, he will still agree with it.
Anyone that takes him for a fool is no mug.

 

[Whiskers]

Well Lib Prime Ministers are voted 100% by the caucus.

True, but they... and even past Labor leaders... have done a better job of keeping true to the grass root policy wishes.

Would you have the branches having all the choices?

Not the branches, straight from the horses mouth... the membership. There is still a degree of branch stacking and candidate stacking, even in the Libs.

Why not the membership having all the say in voting rights on leadership?

 

[Julia]

It's the only stick he has at present and he is getting hit so has to fight back.
He knows the Tories have to drop the ball on this one as they won't have the cash.

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense on the above, but what does the government especially need cash for?

Seems to me Abbott et al are doing two things at present:

1. putting Clive Palmer in his place by implying they're uninterested in whether or not PUP will support the repeal of the carbon tax, at least at this stage, by making it clear they're quite prepared to go to a DD on this, thus exposing Clive Palmer's unattractive threats for what they are - more egocentric grandstanding.

2. making the opposition accountable for any stand they take on maintaining the carbon tax, regardless of the reality that they achieved only about a third of the vote in an election where the carbon tax repeal was front and centre.

Re Bill Shorten's election as leader, I 've simply never understood why anyone would consider him leadership material in the first place. He looks insignificant and he sounds the same, with his somewhat prissy way of speaking.

Already, just hours after the announcement of deputy and members of the shadow front bench, various Labor members are publicly shouting their disaffection with the process and the results, notably Anna Burke who seems somewhat more than a little miffed at being passed over. They just can't seem to help themselves with the infighting.

 

[MrBurns]

I thought Rudd was prissy but I think the lisping Shorten outdoes him....almost.

He's in big trouble already, I never thought I'd like Anna Burke but good on her.

Shorten is already backstabbing his way through his term as Labor leader.

 

[sptrawler]

I thought Rudd was prissy but I think the lisping Shorten outdoes him....almost.

He's in big trouble already, I never thought I'd like Anna Burke but good on her.

Shorten is already backstabbing his way through his term as Labor leader.

Interesting that Labor insiders call him "showbag Bill", apparently they think he is all front and no substance.

It will be interesting to see if it proves correct, we may well end up with Tanya and Penny in charge.lol

 

[Knobby22]

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense on the above, but what does the government especially need cash for?

Seems to me Abbott et al are doing two things at present:

1. putting Clive Palmer in his place by implying they're uninterested in whether or not PUP will support the repeal of the carbon tax, at least at this stage, by making it clear they're quite prepared to go to a DD on this, thus exposing Clive Palmer's unattractive threats for what they are - more egocentric grandstanding.

2. making the opposition accountable for any stand they take on maintaining the carbon tax, regardless of the reality that they achieved only about a third of the vote in an election where the carbon tax repeal was front and centre.

Re Bill Shorten's election as leader, I 've simply never understood why anyone would consider him leadership material in the first place. He looks insignificant and he sounds the same, with his somewhat prissy way of speaking.

Already, just hours after the announcement of deputy and members of the shadow front bench, various Labor members are publicly shouting their disaffection with the process and the results, notably Anna Burke who seems somewhat more than a little miffed at being passed over. They just can't seem to help themselves with the infighting.

I was referring to the alternate plan - direct action. The Libs won't be able to afford this.
I agree the infighting in the Labor party is pathetic. In fact many of their parliamentarians are pathetic. They need urgent reform if they ever want to get back in power.
I don't think he sounds prissy. Maybe it's the Melbourne accent?

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Interesting that Labor insiders call him "showbag Bill", apparently they think he is all front and no substance.

Have you a source for this?

 

[MrBurns]

Interesting that Labor insiders call him "showbag Bill", apparently they think he is all front and no substance.

It will be interesting to see if it proves correct, we may well end up with Tanya and Penny in charge.lol

Not sure when the next polls are out but they will be interesting.

 

[drsmith]

Listing to the ABC's AM this morning, one gets the impression Stephen Conroy is still throwing around the red underpants, if only within the walls of Labor.

 

[IFocus]

I actually think Shorten will be good for Labor as he knows how to argue sensitively.
He will argue the case well as an opposition leader which will ensure the Libs don't take the voters for granted.

I think the Drucker quote suits him.

“Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.”
― Peter F. Drucker

If you look at his record in parliament, it is pretty good, particularly compared to most of the others. There were no panic policies and the other crazy stuff such as what we saw from Gillard and Rudd.

And remember, it was the ones who knew him best who voted for him.

Good summary Knobby it was Shorten who got the NDIS up but can he be an effective opposition leader remains to be seen....toughest job in the parliament bar none.

- - - Updated - - -

I was referring to the alternate plan - direct action. The Libs won't be able to afford this.
I agree the infighting in the Labor party is pathetic. In fact many of their parliamentarians are pathetic. They need urgent reform if they ever want to get back in power.
I don't think he sounds prissy. Maybe it's the Melbourne accent?

- - - Updated - - -

There is also some problems around the timing of repealing the tax money wise either way the Coalition will have to burn some one along the way likely to be tax payers I suspect.

- - - Updated - - -

Listing to the ABC's AM this morning, one gets the impression Stephen Conroy is still throwing around the red underpants, if only within the walls of Labor.

Conroy is a major factional player and always been a divisive one he will be a problem child.