Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

[kahuna1]

Good,

approximately 5% of the time you actually have a point, is probably missed

Always refreshing to see your lack of education/intelligence on display.

Even admitting it more amusing !!

 

[IFocus]

Like I said, am in no way au fait on this.

So... If we took some sodium hydroxide with a ph of 14 and added just enough sodium carbonate, itself a base, to raise the solution to 13, are we to describe that process as acidification? Even though no acidic substances at all were added?

Likewise if we have some hydrochloric acid to which we add some acetic acid to increase the ph, are we said to be alkalizing (basifying?) that solution?

At the extremes of scale you put up the discussion would be about the fall / rise / change in pH and makes no difference whats added.

As the ocean pH is 8 ish next to 7 neutral and moving lower for a general population explanation alkaline / acid to me would be used in the description.

In my day to day work with process / chemical engineers / chemists some with PhD's also dealing with the various government departments that did the regulatory audits etc this would be normal.

Rederobs exact explanation is what you would use if you were siting exams or writing a research paper.

If you want to claim its propaganda go for it.

Nice distraction from the fact its happening, causes are well understood (basic science no models required) not aware of any fossil fuels money backing distention and no plans to stop.

Like I keep saying its end game, CC is SFA in comparison and alarmingly its not that far to cross the line of no return.

 

[wayneL]

Good,


Always refreshing to see your lack of education/intelligence on display.

Even admitting it more amusing !!

I think my insult was better. No prize for second go, mate

 

[rederob]

At the extremes of scale you put up the discussion would be about the fall / rise / change in pH and makes no difference whats added.

Not strictly true.
Concentration levels of respective solutions affect each outcome, so in each case - using the solutions in WayneL's examples - the the results could have been the opposite. However, his examples did include the pH direction, so you are otherwise correct.

 

[wayneL]

At the extremes of scale you put up the discussion would be about the fall / rise / change in pH and makes no difference whats added.

As the ocean pH is 8 ish next to 7 neutral and moving lower for a general population explanation alkaline / acid to me would be used in the description.

In my day to day work with process / chemical engineers / chemists some with PhD's also dealing with the various government departments that did the regulatory audits etc this would be normal.

Rederobs exact explanation is what you would use if you were siting exams or writing a research paper.

If you want to claim its propaganda go for it.

Nice distraction from the fact its happening, causes are well understood (basic science no models required) not aware of any fossil fuels money backing distention and no plans to stop.

Like I keep saying its end game, CC is SFA in comparison and alarmingly its not that far to cross the line of no return.

I have Red blocked, not interested in what it has to say.

But you misconstrue my intention dprobably intentionally>. My intention is to understand, but also understanding for people not up on the vagaries of ph.

The average schmuck believes the oceans have become acidic, via the acidification terminology. This is not the case.

This is similar to the extreme weather narrative , which (at this point) a load of old cobblers.

Perceptions are important and easily manipulable.

 

[kahuna1]

Always refreshing to see your lack of education/intelligence on display.

And again ...

The average schmuck believes the oceans have become acidic, via the acidification terminology. This is not the case.

I did think PH falling was becoming more acidic. Not in your case ... apparently.

I am falling off my seat ...

 

[IFocus]

I have Red blocked, not interested in what it has to say.

Shame .....you are in a echo chamber then Red is one of the more astute and accurate posters here at least he must be I agree with his premise almost entirely

 

[IFocus]

"The average schmuck believes the oceans have become more acidic, via the acidification terminology. This is not the case. "

Afraid they have (helped you out there with "more" for the sake of accuracy )and they will be acidic some time in the future of course humans will be long gone before that point is reached.

 

[Sdajii]

And again ...

The average schmuck believes the oceans have become acidic, via the acidification terminology. This is not the case.

I did think PH falling was becoming more acidic. Not in your case ... apparently.

I am falling off my seat ...

This whole topic is basically just irrelevant semantics (the issue of acidification/alkalinity reduction is important, but that argument about the semantics is stupid).

Whatever you call it, it's a bit of a concern.

He does have a bit of a point, the public is being lead to believe the ocean is acidic (most people probably assume it was/should be neutral). I personally wouldn't even think about complaining about the term 'acidification' for the mechanism causing the reduction in ocean pH though. If a strong basic solution was diluted with a weaker basic solution and the pH dropped, I'd think maybe there was validity in complaining about it being called acidification, nit picking as it is, but with the current chemistry going on, yeah, it's fair enough to call it acidification and it's the word I would choose to describe it.

Arguing over terminology and getting all smug pretending to fall off your seat or whatever is pretty pathetic though.

Technically, pH lowering while still being alkaline isn't becoming more acidic. It's closer to being acidic. To say something is more acidic means it is actually acidic. Acidification through the production of carbonic acid as the ocean absorbs atmospheric CO2 can legitimately be called acidification in my opinion, but you can't correctly say it's becoming more acidic until it actually becomes acidic.

Either way, it's a silly point to split hairs over.

 

[kahuna1]

Technically, pH lowering while still being alkaline isn't becoming more acidic

What is it becoming if NOT closer to the acidic end of the scale ?

dazzle us ?

Can a crab form a shell at a PH level below 7 ?

In say 2150 ? even at a mildly acidic state ... Coke at PH of 4 ... overnight takes away the top layers of a penny ... overnight. How about living in yes milder PH levels but ALL the time ??

 

[wayneL]

Shame .....you are in a echo chamber then Red is one of the more astute and accurate posters here at least he must be I agree with his premise almost entirely

I disagree with you there.

I hate to split hairs again, but an echo chamber does not admit any contrary thought. I have him blocked, not because I think his intellectual points are unreasonable (even if I think some of them are wrong), it is because of the excessive and unreasonable ad hominem and unreasonable debating style.

I would point out that Komrade Red is the only one blocked. You, bas, kahuna, and all the other commies here are not.

That is not an echo chamber.

 

[Sdajii]

What is it becoming if NOT closer to the acidic end of the scale ?

dazzle us ?

Less alkaline.

Can a crab form a shell at a PH level below 7 ?

Yes. Crabs and other crustacea do live in acidic water. But if you are asking if hypothetically an actually acidic ocean would be catastrophic, then yes, it would be catastrophic. There's no one saying that's at all likely though.

In say 2150 ? even at a mildly acidic state ... Coke at PH of 4 ... overnight takes away the top layers of a penny ... overnight. How about living in yes milder PH levels but ALL the time ??

I'm not sure if you're naive or deliberately trying to misrepresent the chemistry. I strongly suspect the former.

 

[wayneL]

Can a crab form a shell at a PH level below 7 ?

That would actually be pretty cool. Shelling crabs is messy and a pain on the 4ss.

 

[kahuna1]

You, bas, kahuna, and all the other commies here are not.

Now I am communist !! Brilliant.

From the Smithsonian ... by 2100 ...
Generally, shelled animals—including mussels, clams, urchins and starfish—are going to have trouble building their shells in more acidic water, just like the corals. Mussels and oysters are expected to grow less shell by 25 percent and 10 percent respectively by the end of the century

https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/invertebrates/ocean-acidification

let alone 2150 ...

but who cares ?

Soft shell crabs year round or a feat for things in the sea that like crab meat !!

 

[rederob]

...it is because of the excessive and unreasonable ad hominem and unreasonable debating style.

When he really means that whenever asked for evidence for his claims, he can't offer it. As these very claims he makes are also without evidence... unless he claims his opinions as facts.

He does have a bit of a point, the public is being lead to believe the ocean is acidic (most people probably assume it was/should be neutral).

Most people are not good at science.
Most people do not know that rain (precipitation if you prefer) is slightly acidic.
Most people would not know which of the major food groups were basic or acidic.
Most people think that drinking a glass of milk can relieve heartburn, whereas milk fats are acidic and can stimulate the stomach to produce more acid.
Most people won't put their unfounded ideas in writing.
But some posting regularly here make claims that have been shown to be false, and repeat them ad nauseum in their blissful ignorance.

 

[IFocus]

I disagree with you there.

I hate to split hairs again, but an echo chamber does not admit any contrary thought. I have him blocked, not because I think his intellectual points are unreasonable (even if I think some of them are wrong), it is because of the excessive and unreasonable ad hominem and unreasonable debating style.

I would point out that Komrade Red is the only one blocked. You, bas, kahuna, and all the other commies here are not.

That is not an echo chamber.

Haha clearly I m not trying hard enough

We grow a lot when we can deal with those things that irk, note its more about us than the irker.

Remember its just black writing on a screen nothing more.

 

[IFocus]

Now I am communist !! Brilliant.

Mark the scale for this is any one who criticises Trump or is politically left of Genghis Khan or has a social conscience is a commie........wear it with pride you are normal.

 

[rederob]

kahuna1 said: ↑
What is it becoming if NOT closer to the acidic end of the scale ?
dazzle us ?

Less alkaline.

Except that this may not be true.
Basification and alkalinity are very different chemical features.
Given we were talking about oceans, then absorption of CO2 leads to a lowering of pH, but also actually raises the alkalinity by causing dissolution of carbonates.

My intention is to understand, but also understanding for people not up on the vagaries of ph.

That would be difficult. You do not understand chemistry.
And you do not understand climate, as per this:

This is similar to the extreme weather narrative , which (at this point) a load of old cobblers.

You could, of course, offer evidence for this claim.
But like most of your posts, they are rubbish.

 

[qldfrog]

I disagree with you there.

I hate to split hairs again, but an echo chamber does not admit any contrary thought. I have him blocked, not because I think his intellectual points are unreasonable (even if I think some of them are wrong), it is because of the excessive and unreasonable ad hominem and unreasonable debating style.

I would point out that Komrade Red is the only one blocked. You, bas, kahuna, and all the other commies here are not.

That is not an echo chamber.

I have to say Redor.. was one of the person i ignore the fastest.
I have no will whatsover to ever meet him/her and discuss anything with that person not based on his her ideas but on the overall attitude
I am pained at the positions of others fallen prey to propaganda or over reading of negative guardian garbage, and enjoy reading more scientific input of others.

 

[qldfrog]

Mark the scale for this is any one who criticises Trump or is politically left of Genghis Khan or has a social conscience is a commie........wear it with pride you are normal.

Or you are a muppet who may one day learn to think by yourself?
But for the time being, enjoy following the masses..can not go wrong and feel so good