Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

[sptrawler]

I’d give environmental groups a pretty hard smack with the spoon too.

As a general rule I’m not keen on “I told you so” stuff but I’ll make an exception.

Environmentalists got their wish and Hazelwood power station is now permanently closed. Alglesea, Northern, Morwell, Playford B, Redbank and Wallerawang C are shut too.

Meanwhile emissions went up and environmental groups who pushed for the closure of Hazelwood and others are suspiciously silent on the issue.

If it was up to me then I’d remove politicians and green groups alike, neither grasps the issue properly, and put professional scientists and engineers in charge of coming up with a workable national plan and implementing it.

To do that I’d set up a properly structured Commission, with the authority to own and operate businesses, enter contracts with the private sector and to raise funds. I’d give parliament a simple yes / no role in approving major investment decisions but with no ability to alter the details.

That approach built the energy system we’ve got today and would have a far better chance of delivering what we need going forward when compared to what we’re actually doing now.

Note that this approach doesn’t necessarily mean natuonalising anything although that is an option if needed.

Add to that 640MW of coal shut down in W.A, with Muja A/B, Kwinana A & C, wow we really are having a real effect.
I think not, the only effect we are having is on the reliability and cost of electricity.
If we can't transition to a completely 'green' electricity supply in Australia, in the next 15 years, we will become a third world economy.
Just my opinion, but we have pushed all the chips in, I hope we win.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Going back to the original post Global Warming if it exists is not unstoppable.

gg

 

[SirRumpole]

This is the intensity of the fires in California last summer. It is what will be facing us this summer and even more so as temperatures increase.
Hellfire

Scary stuff allright

Lets hope people heed the warnings and put safety first.

 

[sptrawler]

Good article plod.

A government owned retailer would keep the private companies honest like Medicare does to the private health funds.

FFS another NBN, please no, another taxpayer funded bail out to supply what we already paid for.
Christ I need to get onto the age pension, I'm sick of paying for these brain farts.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Scary stuff allright

Lets hope people heed the warnings and put safety first.

What a silly post.

Of course people are going to do that you muppet.

gg

 

[SirRumpole]

What a silly post.

Of course people are going to do that you muppet.

gg

I hope you are right but people still die in bushfires you muppet.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

People still die in bushfires you muppet.

You are a silly person.

gg

 

[SirRumpole]

FFS another NBN, please no, another taxpayer funded bail out to supply what we already paid for.
Christ I need to get onto the age pension, I'm sick of paying for these brain farts.

No one complained about power prices before privatisation did they ?

The power just appeared at reasonable prices.

 

[SirRumpole]

You are a silly person.

gg

Just someone who doesn't live in Disneyland.

 

[sptrawler]

No one complained about power prices before privatisation did they ?

The power just appeared at reasonable prices.

Right to put it in simplistic terms, the Power Stations Make the money, They produce the goods.
The network just costs money, because all it does is take the product from the generator, and give it to the user.
And you think it is a great idea, to become the owner of the non income generating backbone at the tax payers cost, well that probably goes without saying, you have to be a tax payer to be pissed off.
The NBN was a typical example of that, the telco's got an upgraded system at the taxpayers expense, so the telco's could charge you more for a better service you paid for. FFS
Didn't you read how much renewables has to be put in, in the near future 100GW, how the fluck does the tax payer fund that? And find enough money for welfare? They won't find it from SMSF's trust me.
All this rah rah socialist $hit works well, while you have someone else's money to pay for it.
Where Australia has chosen to go, can't be funded through taxes, it is an enormous excercise and the Government needs to oversee it not become involved in it. IMO
As smurp says, it needs to handed over to engineering, not politics.

 

[SirRumpole]

Right to put it in simplistic terms, the Power Stations Make the money, They produce the goods.
The network just costs money, because all it does is take the product from the generator, and give it to the user.
And you think it is a great idea, to become the owner of the non income generating backbone at the tax payers cost, well that probably goes without saying, you have to be a tax payer to be pissed off.
The NBN was a typical example of that, the telco's got an upgraded system at the taxpayers expense, so the telco's could charge you more for a better service you paid for. FFS
Didn't you read how much renewables has to be put in, in the near future 100GW, how the fluck does the tax payer fund that? And find enough money for welfare? They won't find it from SMSF's trust me.
All this rah rah socialist $hit works well, while you have someone else's money to pay for it.

I stand by my original comment. All this stuff about power prices only happened after the grid was privatised.

Do you deny that ?

You can rant all you like, but it was a cr@p decision to sell the stuff off in the first place.

So a few government owned gas power stations and pumped hydro providing baseload is a rubbish idea is it ?

What do you think of Snowy Hydro 2.0 ? Do you object to your taxes going into that ?


FFS your hero Abbott was saying we the taxpayers should buy Liddell back. Great idea to buy a power station that 's falling apart, but I guess you approve of that ?

 

[luutzu]

Right to put it in simplistic terms, the Power Stations Make the money, They produce the goods.
The network just costs money, because all it does is take the product from the generator, and give it to the user.
And you think it is a great idea, to become the owner of the non income generating backbone at the tax payers cost, well that probably goes without saying, you have to be a tax payer to be pissed off.
The NBN was a typical example of that, the telco's got an upgraded system at the taxpayers expense, so the telco's could charge you more for a better service you paid for. FFS
Didn't you read how much renewables has to be put in, in the near future 100GW, how the fluck does the tax payer fund that? And find enough money for welfare? They won't find it from SMSF's trust me.
All this rah rah socialist $hit works well, while you have someone else's money to pay for it.

It's called socialised expense but privatised profit. Or, Capitalism

Tax collection for the purposes, as claimed, "for a civil society" is socialism. Just that in practise, tax do get collected but its distribution goes to the top with hope that it'll trickle down.

 

[luutzu]

I stand by my original comment. All this stuff about power prices only happened after the grid was privatised.

Do you deny that ?

You can rant all you like, but it was a cr@p decision to sell the stuff off in the first place.

So a few government owned gas power stations and pumped hydro providing baseload is a rubbish idea is it ?

What do you think of Snowy Hydro 2.0 ? Do you object to your taxes going into that ?


FFS your hero Abbott was saying we the taxpayers should buy Liddell back. Great idea to buy a power station that 's falling apart, but I guess you approve of that ?

Talking to my brother in law the other day from the UK. He said the gov't there is planning to privatise the rail network, again.

The same network Virgin and Co bought a couple decades ago when it was privatised. Branson milked the crap out of the network, firing people in a drive for "efficiency", cut back on maintenance and paying themselves crapload of dividends... Soon enough the system goes to heck so it's socialised again.

Sounds like the gov't, using taxpayers cash, have fixed it up good and proper. Now it's time to talk about gaining efficiency by giving it away to entrepreneurs.

 

[sptrawler]

I stand by my original comment. All this stuff about power prices only happened after the grid was privatised.

Do you deny that ?

No, but you seem to imply it was only the LNP that did it, when both Parties did.
The other thing is, in hind sight with the advent of renewables, the taxpayer would have been left with stranded assetts if it wasn't privatised. Imagine trying to sell a coal fired Power Station now?
You have a one dimensional take on it all, probably from lack of knowledge of how the Power System works.
If all the of the power generation was owned by the taxpayer, they would have to fund the transition to renewables, from consolidated revenue or from higher electricity charges.

You can rant all you like, but it was a cr@p decision to sell the stuff off in the first place.

Both sides of politics sold off, or made Government Power Generation an impost, rather than a service. You try and imply it is was only done by the LNP, when both sides have done it.

So a few government owned gas power stations and pumped hydro providing baseload is a rubbish idea is it ?

Don't try and degrade my input, I worked in the industry and as you know, I have said endlessly that base load is the problem.
Quoting the obvious doesn't in any way, show you understand the underlying issues, it just shows you can parrot other people's knowledge with none of your own.

What do you think of Snowy Hydro 2.0 ? Do you object to your taxes going into that ?

That doesn't deserve an answer, you already know my thoughts on Pumped Hydro and H2 storage, you really are proving GG was right.

FFS your hero Abbott was saying we the taxpayers should buy Liddell back. Great idea to buy a power station that 's falling apart, but I guess you approve of that ?

If you don't have enough gas available over East, to supply the 2,000MW Liddel supplies, of course it makes sense, you muppett.

 

[SirRumpole]

No, but you seem to imply it was only the LNP that did it, when both Parties did.

I did not mention either Party you are seeing things that don't exist.

Both sides of politics sold off, or made Government Power Generation an impost, rather than a service. You try and imply it is was only done by the LNP, when both sides have done it.

See previous answer.

If you don't have enough gas available over East, to supply the 2,000MW Liddel supplies, of course it makes sense, you muppett.

Well lets get the opinion of an expert shall we ?

Turnbull tries to keep Liddell open.

He'll need a lot of luck to make that work.

Liddell is akin to an elderly person reliant on a walking frame to get about and an assortment of drugs to keep them alive. They might be around 5 years from now but 10 is seriously pushing it. There's a fair bit of speculation that it might not even make it to 2022 given how it's going at the moment and in the recent past. If it does then it'll be like the marathon runner who falls over the finish line and collapses in a heap, it's not going to run another few km just for fun that's for sure.

Liddell is 46 years old now and from an engineering perspective pretty much at end of life. Much the same problems that Hazelwood had in a technical sense and would cost serious $ to properly fix. The plant has officially been de-rated from 2000 MW to 1800 MW but struggles to get much over 1600 MW and then only if all 4 units are actually running. Suffice to say the load shedding in NSW earlier this year was directly because Liddell fell in a heap on those days.

Wallerawang (1000 MW) was in better shape. Newer, two units commissioned in 1976 and 1980, and in overall better condition. It has been permanently closed however.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eration-and-storage.29842/page-90#post-958544

Liddell power station has attracted much attention in recent times.

Just thought I'd mention that unit 3 hasn't been running for a while and unit 4 failed suddenly whilst at full load last night.

That leaves unit 1 running at 300 MW max and unit 2 is running at 420 MW max.

All were originally rated at 500 MW but are presently rated at 420 MW due to condition etc.

There's supply from other sources without problems at the moment so no panic but it would be fair to say that Liddell isn't going too well. 1 out of 4 units fully operational, 1 out of 4 running with issues, 2 out of 4 not running at all.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...ration-and-storage.29842/page-122#post-992028

I don't doubt the technical competence of the owners (AGL) but ultimately Liddell is already at the point where it's worn out and struggling to keep going.

They did a patch up last year but still struggled to keep it going when the weather got hot. Half the plant failed outright, the other half couldn't get up to full capacity, and load shedding in NSW was the result.

Right now Liddell is three quarters operational as such. Of the 3 (of 4) units operating they're running at 84% of capacity and that's as hard as they're able to push it really.

Going forward unit 2 (idle at present) will run again yes but others will have outages. And there's no chance they'll push it up to full output even in an emergency. It just can't get there and if it did then there's a fair chance of bad things happening. It's not in good shape.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eration-and-storage.29842/page-90#post-958544

Liddell will be a great investment won't it ?

It will be running untill 2022 anyway, and after that it's stuffed.

Kermit.

 

[sptrawler]

Liddell will be a great investment won't it ?

If they are going to blow it up, it will cost Fluck all, the generators will still be good, the only problem will be the boilers and they can be replaced.
The civil ground works, cement footings etc will still be used, so it will just be a boiler swap out. That will cost a lot less than replacing everything.
ASK smurph.
North Power Station at Port Augusta, was relatively young by coal fired standards, it was blown up.
Because of stupid ideology, it represented the past, so it had to go how dumb was that? It was offered to the Labor Government of SA for nothing, they said blow it up.
Like I've said, the only way that renewables will be viable as base load, is through hydro and H2.
Batteries are a stop gap, but we have been through that endlessly.
At the moment, we are ffking 80GW short in renewables, do you realise how much that is?
Yet just blow up another 2GW Power Staion, because it seemed like a good idea at the time. FFS

By the way I noticed you didn't address my comment on stranded assetts, that the taxpayer would have to ffking cop, and the fact they would have to foot the whole bill, for the transition to renewables.

 

[SirRumpole]

At the moment, we are ffking 80GW short in renewables, do you realise how much that is?

Do you realise I didn't mention renewables ?

I said gas and pumped hydro.

And I did make a mistake, I said retailer when I should have said generator(s).

 

[sptrawler]

Do you realise I didn't mention renewables ?

I said gas and pumped hydro.

And I did make a mistake, I said retailer when I should have said generator(s).

Like I said, it just shows your lack of depth of knowledge, luckily Karma will happen. IMO

 

[SirRumpole]

Like I said, it just shows your lack of depth of knowledge, luckily Karma will happen. IMO

Oh dear me I said the wrong word by mistake, so velly solly.

But it indicates a lack of comprehension on your part when you assumed things I didn't say.

 

[sptrawler]

Oh dear me I said the wrong word by mistake, so velly solly.

But it indicates a lack of comprehension on your part when you assumed things I didn't say.

I just wish, the politics would get out of the generation issue, I worked in generation from 15 years old, to retirement through most aspects of it.
To see it degenerate to a sideshow, where everyone and his dog has an opinion and knows the answers, is really sad.
I thought it would have been better, to have stayed in Government hands, but now with hindsight and the advent of renewables, it would have cost the taxpayer a massive amount of money.
Selling the assetts, to those who could afford them when they were at their most valuable, was probably a good move. They wouldn't be able to get the same return now.
Like I have said before, there are Government Dept's looking 25 years ahead, I would think this sell off was pre emptied.
Also I probably shouldn't have called you a muppett, just get the rusted on jacket off.