Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

I don't know what it will take to get people to reassess their view that CC is not that real or not that significant or just a hoax. As I have discovered in discussions on AF with some posters they have made it clear there is no evidence that will cause them to reassess.

2023 has been a turning point with the climate. A step change if you like.

Astounding’ ocean temperatures in 2023 intensified extreme weather, data shows​

Record levels of heat were absorbed last year by Earth’s seas, which have been warming year-on-year for the past decade


Damian Carrington Environment editor
@dpcarrington
Thu 11 Jan 2024 19.00 AEDTLast modified on Thu 11 Jan 2024 19.02 AEDT


“Astounding” ocean temperatures in 2023 supercharged “freak” weather around the world as the climate crisis continued to intensify, new data has revealed.

The oceans absorb 90% of the heat trapped by the carbon emissions from the burning of fossil fuels, making it the clearest indicator of global heating. Record levels of heat were taken up by the oceans in 2023, scientists said, and the data showed that for the past decade the oceans have been hotter every year than the year before.

The heat also led to record levels of stratification in the oceans, where warm water ponding on the surface reduces the mixing with deeper waters. This cuts the amount of oxygen in the oceans, threatening marine life, and also reduces the amount of carbon dioxide and heat the seas can take up in the future.

Reliable ocean temperature measurements stretch back to 1940 but it is likely the oceans are now at their hottest for 1,000 years and heating faster than at any time in the past 2,000 years.

A work colleague came back from Kathmandu and came to work today. She grew up there.

She was shocked. There was no snow on the surrounding mountains in the middle of winter - she showed me the photos.

She grew up there and brought thermal layers etc expecting it to be bitterly cold but said she just went around in an ordinary coat, not at all like it used to be.

Knobby22 said:

A work colleague came back from Kathmandu and came to work today. She grew up there.

She was shocked. There was no snow on the surrounding mountains in the middle of winter - she showed me the photos.

She grew up there and brought thermal layers etc expecting it to be bitterly cold but said she just went around in an ordinary coat, not at all like it used to be.

Click to expand...

Not surprised only two glaciers in the Himalayas gaining ice (likely to have changed by now) the rest losing it, Nepal region has lost 30% of its ice from memory.

The beat goes on. Global temperatures being broken every month - by a "mile".
I wonder what Donald Trump would make of this ? Probably sack the BOM for spreading fake news

Earth's warmest January on record extends run of unprecedented temperatures to eight months​

By ABC meteorologist Tom Saunders
Posted 1h ago1 hours ago, updated 1h ago1 hours ago

Last month was the hottest January on record.(ABC News: Kenith Png)

Link copied


Global temperatures through January were the warmest on record at 1.66 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels, according to data released by the Copernicus Climate Change Service (C3S).

The month was 0.12C above the previous warmest January in 2020 and extends the run of record warm months to eight, following similar unprecedented temperatures from June to December last year.

​

basilio said:

The beat goes on. Global temperatures being broken every month - by a "mile".
I wonder what Donald Trump would make of this ? Probably sack the BOM for spreading fake news

Earth's warmest January on record extends run of unprecedented temperatures to eight months​

By ABC meteorologist Tom Saunders
Posted 1h ago1 hours ago, updated 1h ago1 hours ago
View attachment 170461
Last month was the hottest January on record.(ABC News: Kenith Png)

Link copied


Global temperatures through January were the warmest on record at 1.66 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels, according to data released by the Copernicus Climate Change Service (C3S).

The month was 0.12C above the previous warmest January in 2020 and extends the run of record warm months to eight, following similar unprecedented temperatures from June to December last year.

View attachment 170460​

Run of unprecedented temperatures continues after warmest January on record

Global temperatures through January have been the hottest on record, extending the run of unprecedented temperatures to eight months. For Australia, it's the third hottest January on record.

www.abc.net.au

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I was listening to a professor yesterday and he basically said that we are in the 5 stages of grieving and still in the second stage and a long way from acceptance.

All the stuff being done is on the edges and ineffective. Nuclear can't get up because of cost, fossil oil and gas are getting expensive to get but are still great sources so will be hard to replace.

Electricity only makes up 20% of the green house gas problem and that is what everyone is addressing and even with what is happening it really does not help much.

Industrial processes are a massive problem. He said we need other strategies and much better technology. Batteries aren't going to help much and in energy density are not good and very energy intensive to create. Electric cars aren't going to help much.

According to him we will go a lot higher in temperature and also suffer recession transitioning. We haven't even slowed the temperature rise down.

Even if we all decided to act together we couldn't succeed. He said a lot more but I have only cherry picked a few points.

Sobering stuff. It's going to get very rough.

Knobby22 said:

All the stuff being done is on the edges and ineffective.

Click to expand...

Bingo - at the moment what's being done is "look busy" rather than actually getting it done.

Because it's a reality that actually getting it done is rather dry and boring, it's not "sexy" in media or political terms and much of it doesn't even involve new technology, just the comprehensive use of the technology we already have.

Taking the science of climate as being as stated there, so not entering into that debate just focusing on how to deal with it assuming it's correct.

Knobby22 said:

I was listening to a professor yesterday and he basically said that we are in the 5 stages of grieving and still in the second stage and a long way from acceptance.

All the stuff being done is on the edges and ineffective. Nuclear can't get up because of cost, fossil oil and gas are getting expensive to get but are still great sources so will be hard to replace.

Electricity only makes up 20% of the green house gas problem and that is what everyone is addressing and even with what is happening it really does not help much.

Industrial processes are a massive problem. He said we need other strategies and much better technology. Batteries aren't going to help much and in energy density are not good and very energy intensive to create. Electric cars aren't going to help much.

According to him we will go a lot higher in temperature and also suffer recession transitioning. We haven't even slowed the temperature rise down.

Even if we all decided to act together we couldn't succeed. He said a lot more but I have only cherry picked a few points.

Sobering stuff. It's going to get very rough.

Click to expand...

A reality check no one wants to know about.

Elsewhere such analysis is called climate hysteria. Perhaps the belief is if people really did understand how irrevocably xucked we are the population would go into despair or rage.

There is another option. Climate scientist Dr Guy McPherson came to the conclusion some years ago humanity was not capable of turning the boat on global warming. His very bleak view made him effectively an outcast even in the world of climate scientists. His view is
"Lets live well while we can "

basilio said:

Elsewhere such analysis is called climate hysteria. Perhaps the belief is if people really did understand how irrevocably xucked we are the population would go into despair or rage.

Click to expand...

Taking the science to be correct, without debating that argument, I'll just ask a question:

Who's placing climate change as their actual top priority?

Who?

My observation is there's a lot of people talking about it but scratch beneath the surface and they're not actually seeing climate as the top problem to fix. Rather, they're seeing climate as a convenient means by which to win the argument for something else.

Politicians use climate to get elected, they don't use getting elected to fix climate.

Business uses climate to sell products. You'll never find them saying "just use less".

Others use it as a convenient justification to push everything from jacking up the price of land to socialism and even music.

If I use the analogy of crime well I'm not seeing any real genuine effort to stop crime. Rather, what I'm seeing is it used as a means to justify employing more police, building more prisons, hiring more judges and as a means of selling everything from deadlocks, safes, insurance and CCTV through to law degrees. Actually stopping crime doesn't seem to be anyone's real focus however.

I'm not a climate scientist so I take an open mind there. I do find it frustrating, and perhaps somewhat telling, however that anyone who tries to actually fix the problem is sure to run into opposition from pretty much everyone.

Some scream loudly that something needs to be done, others say there's no need to worry, but when it comes to the crunch not much separates them. They're united in not actually doing anything beyond using it as a convenient justification for other things.

Smurf1976 said:

You'll never find them saying "just use less".

Click to expand...

The ultimate solution.
We seem to be using more - e.g. monster trucks everywhere instead of Utes.

Since about 2006 scientists have been aware of a number of climate change tipping points. All the historical evidence show that climate changes don't necessarily happen in a gradual some what predictable way. The link below explores these tipping points .

What is concerning is recent scientific research that indicates the Atlantic Ocean circulation system is slowing dramatically. Where to now ?

Atlantic Ocean circulation nearing ‘devastating’ tipping point, study finds​

Collapse in system of currents that helps regulate global climate would be at such speed that adaptation would be impossible

Jonathan Watts
@jonathanwatts
Sat 10 Feb 2024 06.00 AEDTLast modified on Sat 10 Feb 2024 16.08 AEDT

The circulation of the Atlantic Ocean is heading towards a tipping point that is “bad news for the climate system and humanity”, a study has found.

The scientists behind the research said they were shocked at the forecast speed of collapse once the point is reached, although they said it was not yet possible to predict how soon that would happen.

Using computer models and past data, the researchers developed an early warning indicator for the breakdown of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (Amoc), a vast system of ocean currents that is a key component in global climate regulation.
They found Amoc is already on track towards an abrupt shift, which has not happened for more than 10,000 years and would have dire implications for large parts of the world.

... The new paper, published in Science Advances, has broken new ground by looking for warning signs in the salinity levels at the southern extent of the Atlantic Ocean between Cape Town and Buenos Aires. Simulating changes over a period of 2,000 years on computer models of the global climate, it found a slow decline can lead to a sudden collapse over less than 100 years, with calamitous consequences.

The paper said the results provided a “clear answer” about whether such an abrupt shift was possible: “This is bad news for the climate system and humanity as up till now one could think that Amoc tipping was only a theoretical concept and tipping would disappear as soon as the full climate system, with all its additional feedbacks, was considered.”

It also mapped some of the consequences of Amoc collapse. Sea levels in the Atlantic would rise by a metre in some regions, inundating many coastal cities. The wet and dry seasons in the Amazon would flip, potentially pushing the already weakened rainforest past its own tipping point. Temperatures around the world would fluctuate far more erratically. The southern hemisphere would become warmer. Europe would cool dramatically and have less rainfall. While this might sound appealing compared with the current heating trend, the changes would hit 10 times faster than now, making adaptation almost impossible.

“What surprised us was the rate at which tipping occurs,” said the paper’s lead author, René van Westen, of Utrecht University. “It will be devastating.”

A novel approach to addressing the spike in Climate Change related natural disaster iaround Queensland.

Government to Finally Address Increased Risk of Extreme Weather Events by Removing Queensland From Map​

After years of inaction, the Federal Government has finally announced a plan to reduce the incidence of flooding and cyclones in Australia, saying it will remove Queensland from all official maps by the end of the year.

Environment Minster Tanya Plibersek said a range of options had been considered, including taking steps to reduce the effects of climate change. But in the end it was agreed that pretending the problem didn’t exist would be easier.

“This plan allows us to keep our fossil fuel projects in place, while dramatically reducing extreme weather events in this country,” Plibersek told journalists today. “Had this plan be in place last December, for example, Cyclone Jasper would never have hit the Australian mainland. That’s a pretty impressive outcome I think you’ll agree”.

Opposition Leader Peter Dutton was unable to comment on the proposal because his electorate no longer exists.

West Australia being absolutely clobbered with the current heat wave.
Temperatures records are being smashed as distinct from just broken

basilio said:

West Australia being absolutely clobbered with the current heat wave.
Temperatures records are being smashed as distinct from just broken

WA heatwave: Perth breaks records with seven February days above 40C

Extreme temperatures see WA have top 15 hottest places in world over past 24 hours with heatwave expected to peak on Tuesday with 47C weather forecast

www.theguardian.com

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Not only the high temps but so many of them bit of a precursor to the new normal coming... god help us!

IFocus said:

Not only the high temps but so many of them bit of a precursor to the new normal coming... god help us!

Click to expand...

It's only the second highest temperature ever recorded in WA. Nothing to see here.

The killer blow will be if electricity supplies fail during these extended heatwaves.

One of the issues overlooked when discussing global heating is that the climate doesn't need to be critically hot all the time to make a place uninhabitable. Stretches of extreme temperature can doing lasting damage to the environment through uncontrollable fires, and widespread mortal stress on the ecosytems. For example at what stage would sheep and cattle succumb to extreme temperatures ? What about native animals ? People ? Have many episodes of unlivable temperatures would make places to difficult to continue living in ?

Famous Swiss ski resort closes forever due to climate change.

Knobby22 said:

Famous Swiss ski resort closes forever due to climate change.

Swiss ski resort Rüschegg Eywald falls victim to climate change

Rüschegg Eywald boasts the fourth longest ski lift in Switzerland. This year, it didn't open once.

www.bbc.com

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Very thought provoking. To realise that in barely 30 years global warming has completely altered the temperatures of this region to stop any significant snowfalls.

How much extra pollution was generated by an hour long traffic jam?


All city-bound lanes on the West Gate Bridge have reopened and police have arrested three protesters who allegedly used a truck to block morning traffic, causing hour-long traffic delays.
Members of Extinction Rebellion allegedly stopped traffic in the centre of the bridge at 7.45am on Tuesday, climbing onto the truck’s roof to unfurl banners that say “climate breakdown has begun” and “declare a climate emergency”.

sptrawler said:

How much extra pollution was generated by an hour long traffic jam?

Serial climate protesters jailed for blocking West Gate Bridge

A Sydney activist is among the three climate demonstrators who allegedly blocked inbound lanes on Tuesday morning, triggering a 25-kilometre traffic jam.

www.theage.com.au

All city-bound lanes on the West Gate Bridge have reopened and police have arrested three protesters who allegedly used a truck to block morning traffic, causing hour-long traffic delays.
Members of Extinction Rebellion allegedly stopped traffic in the centre of the bridge at 7.45am on Tuesday, climbing onto the truck’s roof to unfurl banners that say “climate breakdown has begun” and “declare a climate emergency”.

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Angering people doesn't help your cause.
They all got arrested. Good behaviour bonds aren't enough disincentive. Big fines should be given also.
We need laws where you get a criminal record, even if its temporary (3 years). The book should be thrown at them.

Knobby22 said:

Angering people doesn't help your cause.
They all got arrested. Good behaviour bonds aren't enough disincentive. Big fines should be given also.
We need laws where you get a criminal record, even if its temporary (3 years). The book should be thrown at them.

Click to expand...

Well people could have had important places to be, ambulances may have been held up, as you say angering people does nothing for their case.

Just highlights their lack of consideration for other people, while trying to highlight other people's lack of consideration regarding climate change, just another example of entitlement syndrome IMO.