Internet Filtering: Australia heads further towards totalitarianism

[Julia]

[Unfortunately it sounds like we do live in a country of blind, ignorant, cradle to grave Socialistic, "Im not ready to take responsibility for my own actions" losers.]

Ha!

You think you've got it bad, try living in New Zealand!

The Government here has just announced they will be placing water regulators on all of our shower heads to "limit" households water use.

Good Heavens! Is this a national edict? My relatives in Christchurch tell me it has rained all year. In all the years I lived there water shortage was the last thing likely to be a problem.

 

[[t..o..m]]

You still haven't explained how this proposed legislation is going to 'protect children' or 'stop the sickos getting to our kids'.

If parents allow the internet into their homes then it is their responsibility to filter it using software, or alternatively, to monitor their children's internet usage. Parents need to take responsibility for what their children are exposed to in their own homes!

This legislation isn't going to do anything to protect children that can't already be done by the parents themselves. It is a gross infringement upon the civil liberties of ordinary Australians and I hope that other concerned Australians will actively resist this heavy handed government interference in their lives.

Totally agree. The government is slowly taking away the freedoms that we currently hold to have total control over what we see, hear, and think. Media has already been censored in certain way's to stop important news and information being broadcast to the public. Instead they populate the airways with big brother and aussie idol to keep the general public numbingly oblivious to world events.

The Internet is the only thing we have left where people can display and comment on any information they like. With this freedom taken away it would be a sad day for the whole human race.

 

[MattB]

My mate has just visited from Israel and has said Australia feels very slow and stiff regarding information... he said information just 'flows' in Israel (and in most euro countries they do busniess with) and his business finds it hard to deal with Australia due to the lack of regular connectivity we have.

This censorship could be attributed to securing votes to the grossly ignorant Australian population when it comes to the internet... painting this horrible picture about pediphiles and pr0n sites... it makes sense like this, because there's still many Aussies on DIALUP or that don't even have the internet!

When I was a kid, we all used to play in parks... guess what, sometimes someone would drive past in a car and beckon us to come over... and guess what, we didn't and ran away. Oh what else... yeh, walking down to the corner shops as kids to buy sweets... plenty of dangers along the way, crossing roads, not talking to strangers... etc etc....

There are almost identical parallels with the internet... the park is now a chat room where you get your scary person who might come on to lure someone away... it's just a different playing field. ....and guess what, if someone asked for our details on the net, we wouldn't hand them over.

Strange, we didn't have our parks and corner shops censored, even though pedo's have molested kids in our very own towns! *gasp*...

I can only attribute this to ignorant paranoia amongst those who don't know how to deal with something "new" - c'mon my grandma surfs the net now, surely you parents,with a vested interest in your children, can catch up if your honestly that afraid - just like my Mum would watch us playing sport in the park rather than getting the government to "filter" people who are allowed to goto parks (or something similarly whacky). I get the feeling this censoring is done out of fear and ignorance... not practicality.

 

[Julia]

You think you've got it bad, try living in New Zealand!

The Government here has just announced they will be placing water regulators on all of our shower heads to "limit" households water use.

With apologies to others for being so off topic in this thread, as I suspected, this comment is rubbish. Apparently the Greens in NZ have simply made this suggestion. That's a very far cry from suggesting some little person from the big brother NZ government is going to go from house to house in NZ placing regulators on shower heads.

Not sure about the rest of the country, but in Christchurch they don't even pay anything for water, it's so plentiful.

 

[DJZ]

Dont be sorry discussion is a very important part of a forum to talk about the issues and its good to hear the negative and posative sides whether you agree or disagree.
If ever i have children i will let you know how i go looking after them but until then i will stick to making money
Guess its just like the jurdiciary system some of the crimes people get away with i would be quite happy to be the executioner and pull the switch but because we live in your so called cotton wool society we allow these dip****s to walk the streets and prey on our kids, and its because of people like you yelling dont take away a persons liberty that they are able to freely walk the streets.
Governments need to get tough on these morons and if it means taking away your internet who cares we survived without it 15 years ago and mind you our lives were more active then too .
Sometimes youve gotta give to gain ,just like the stock market

What?

My cotton wool society? Your the one pushing for a cotton wool society, in which PC reigns supreme, people cant do the things they enjoy, Government has total control, and criminals are let back on the street, as we cant protest because the government has us nicely hamstrung.

You just don't get it do you?

The less government control, and the more Societal control the better!

How is internet filtering going to protect anyone to begin with, its not like people become pedophiles by watching pr0n? You still haven't explained that, and you cant, because it wont!

And no I dont yell about protecting criminals liberties, you just have no understanding of the concept of freedom do you? I believe in Human rights, The right to your Life, Liberty and the fruits of your labour. If somebody infringes upon these rights than the full weight of the law should be brought down upon them. The laws within society should be based upon those rights, and enforced heavily . . But . .Why should I be punished, and MY freedoms be limited because a small minority of people use something in a way, to infringe upon other peoples freedoms? Why not catch the people who are actually committing the crime?

Should all cars be banned because they can Kill, or because pedophiles can use them to kidnap children, How about all knives, or maybe computers should just be banned, thats a pretty foolproof method? Should kids be banned from walking in the streets unaccompanied, should they be restricted in everything they do, just to keep them safe? Is it the Governments responsibility to take these matters in their hands in the first place? I think not.

If you understand history and the totalitarian regimes through out it, you would understand that freedoms are always restricted in the guise of protecting you from yourself!

I'm guessing you like living in a nanny state, and not taking responsibility for your own actions, either that, or you simply do not understand the principle behind what I'm saying.

And no, you do not have to relinquish your hard fought for freedoms to gain security, that is a joke, Benjimin Franklin even knew that hundreds of years ago

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjimin Franklin

Its about Freedom, Its about not being punished for something someone else did, and its about Government being to lazy to actually do the hard work to catch these people, and instead they implement a populist scheme to keep the lemmings happy.

 

[kitehigh]

Well said DJZ, you articulated exactly what I was thinking of the situation as well.

People do get complacent with their freedoms and than they wake up one day an realize they have no freedoms whatsoever.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

[DJZ]

Well said DJZ, you articulated exactly what I was thinking of the situation as well.

People do get complacent with their freedoms and than they wake up one day an realize they have no freedoms whatsoever.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Exactly, that is what I fear, people too willingly give up their freedoms when they are scared of something.

I really like your Quote too its so apt in this day and age, the more I think about thinks though the more I understand the saying, "The more things change, the more things stay the same"

and another good one "The only thing to Fear is Fear itself" - FDR

 

[awg]

Re this filtering.

So what is classified as "illegal pr0n"?...stats I have read indicate a significant % of Internet traffic is linked to sexually explicit websites.

If it includes consensual sex acts between adults as depicted on x-rated videos etc, that would probably cause a lot of filtering!

As for protecting kids, if you expect you could stop pedophiles grooming them via ordinary internet contact, then it would'nt work at all.

my understanding of how pedos work is to ingratiate with the kiddie by at first pretending to be something they are not, then offering them things they want. this is done on non-sex sites

and if u think u can monitor your childs internet use, you can only really do that till they are about 13.

after that they either know of ways to circumvent your monitoring, or object so strenuously to any perceived invasion of their privacy, that the trouble caused significantly outweighs the risk, in my opinion

 

[mantronic]

Freedom has been diminishing since sept 11

 

[Smurf1976]

Governments need to get tough on these morons and if it means taking away your internet who cares we survived without it 15 years ago and mind you our lives were more active then too .

I don't believe we've ever been in the situation of having no proper investigative media or uncensored internet. We had one, now we have the other but take that away and we've got nothing.

 

[Smurf1976]

With apologies to others for being so off topic in this thread, as I suspected, this comment is rubbish. Apparently the Greens in NZ have simply made this suggestion. That's a very far cry from suggesting some little person from the big brother NZ government is going to go from house to house in NZ placing regulators on shower heads.

It's not as off topic as you might think. The recent water problems in much of Australia are an outstanding example of how the population can easily be brainwashed with propaganda.

Just look at how many people think this is some sort of "new" crisis due to climate change that can best be solved with a water tank in every house.

Those who know the reality of the water industry know that shortage was the inevitable consequence of ending the construction of major water infrastructure but allowing underlying demand to continue to rise. Government made the crisis then did an outstanding job of shifting the blame.

Inflation is another one. Governments and central banks have create it on a day to day basis. But they've done a brilliant job of blaming workers and unions who by their very nature are incapable of actually causing inflation. Heck, government propaganda has even confused most as to what inflation actually is!

 

[Smurf1976]

and if u think u can monitor your childs internet use, you can only really do that till they are about 13.

after that they either know of ways to circumvent your monitoring, or object so strenuously to any perceived invasion of their privacy, that the trouble caused significantly outweighs the risk, in my opinion

It's a real worry if you still need to be "protecting" 13+ anyway. It's not as if they're not starting to experiment with sex and drugs at age anyway, they are, so I don't see how a computer is going to do much harm.

 

[cruise61]

It's a real worry if you still need to be "protecting" 13+ anyway. It's not as if they're not starting to experiment with sex and drugs at age anyway, they are, so I don't see how a computer is going to do much harm.

And this comment just goes to show how far from reality you all are .

Guess its good they havnt censored my ability to see what the net has created .

If censoring gets rid of pathetic comments like this im definately all for it .

 

[lakemac]

Someone once said that knowledge is power.
Remove knowledge and you remove power.
Most if not all totalitarian governments and religions brutally enforce this.
By restricting knowlede you create fear.
When you have fear then it becomes easy to get people to prefer security over freedom.
Security of the state. Enforcement of thinking by the state. For the state.

Ask anyone who lived thru Hitler, Mousolini (sp?), Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Howard (ok maybe going a bit too far but just consider the growth in the tax act under howard...). All those and more control their population by controlling information.

For those who have studied war and the like, the control of information in war is paramount.

The maintenance of and/or the re-aquistion of true personal freedom often requires bloodshed and bloodshed often against their own government. Anyone who has ever studied history understands this.

People who run for government in my opinion have a fatal flaw - they are control freaks. They can only operate if they maintain control over the population. And they do that by keeping them scared and keeping them in the dark.

The dark ages were called that for a reason.

Anyone that thinks Australia is free is kidding themselves. Just try getting divorced. Just try leaving the country. Just try opening a bank account. Australia has become a socialist country. Politicians control your every move. Welcome comrades to your fearful new world...

 

[awg]

insofar as "protecting 13 yr olds"

no moral judgement or criticism, or offence to any other poster

just an example

13 yr old boy downloads title similar to "big blackie rapes 13 yr old pre-teen"

a fairly reasonable title for many young lads to be interested in, as i am sure some posters will understand.

responsible adult scans computer and notices title.

patiently explains that sex education is fine and dandy, but downloading such titles may draw to the attention Federal Police , as such a title may well contain child pornography.

Could neccesitate responsible adult having to make extremely difficult explanation to unbelieving authority.

sometime later, reponsible adult fully scans computer again.
notices other possibly illegal titles..explanation recieved that slightly older (15 yr friend) probably did this, while they were all having their fun.

somewhat concerned and annoyed, but understanding liberal minded adult, does the following: Subjects said 13 yr old to extremely detailed and embarrassing (mainly to him) explanation of exactly what type of pr0n he is allowed to download.

tells him if titles containing material of bestiality or under 16 pr0n is ever detected on PC again, very serious consequences will entail, especially as I dont really want to go to jail.

I know for an absolute fact this problem has affected some other people I know.

In the good old days, you got your sex education from Ribald.

I think anyone can see from this lovely little tale that Monitoring of content could have some dire consequences.

and yes, i know i could install net-nanny etc, ( easily overridden), and no, you cant be looking over your kids shoulders all the time

 

[lakemac]

awg (any relation to the wire industry btw???) taking your thoughts further I have often noticed that legislation trying to control one thing inevitably leads to yet more legislation to control further things that were created by the first lot (I come back to the tax laws, family law, petrol price controls, you name it the government can fix er f... it up. If we don't get it right the first time we can always paper over it with more later on.

I am so over government control... Got to go now, have to check my BAS returns...

 

[Smurf1976]

And this comment just goes to show how far from reality you all are .

Guess its good they havnt censored my ability to see what the net has created .

If censoring gets rid of pathetic comments like this im definately all for it .

WHAT is wrong with my comment? It is NOT normal, in Australia in 2008, to find anyone turning 18 who isn't already been there, done that as far as anything that might cause them harm is concerned. And to a very large extent the same could be said of those aged 16.

What, exactly, are we protecting teenagers from? Knowledge?

Filtering the internet isn't going to change a damn thing. Teens got up to plenty of trouble with smoking, drinking, the opposite sex and then driving before most had even heard of the internet.

And the abuse of children has been going on for years everywhere from the home to the church, again before anyone had heard of the internet. Tough policing with proper sentencing can do a bit of good but a bit of software isn't going to stop a determined criminal any more than a primative lock will keep out a determined thief.

The biggest risk of all though is if the software is imperfect, something that's near certain as most will realise. It's one thing to know something is dangerous and act accordingly. It's far more dangerous to think it's been made safe not realising it hasn't. If it fails, and the risk of that is very real, then that will be happening in an environment where the other controls (eg parents) have already been inactivated because it was supposedly safe. That's the worst possible outcome if you're worried about children and it's not a far fetched scenario.

 

[awg]

hi folks,

i dont like govt interference, the less the better.

but it seems to me things are going in the opposite direction

was a good doco on TV a while back, which detailed how in the "land of the free" good ole USA, that phone and Internet traffic was hugely monitored, on the pretext of detecting terrorism. Much of it "secret" and unknown to public or legislators

on the balance of probabilities, I think we will have more monitoring and govt interference, due to technological advances, and the ability of govt to exert more control..power corrupts!!!

I am not uptodate with the security laws in Oz, but i would be fairly certain they would give more power for secret monitoring than ever before.

If i had to vote for or against Internet filtering, I would vote against. haha

I gave an example as a salutory experience of what can and does happen.

I used pr0n as an example, peer-to-peer such as Limewire is full of it.

I do not state a moral judgement on kids or adults accessing material that the majority probably would not approve, such as info on how to use drugs, make explosives, view extreme pr0n, or even exchange radical views..these are now facts of life.

I have discussed this with many parents and (non-parents as well)
It is by no means restricted to teenage boys or "devos"

the responses are so incredibly varied..many people "dont want to know"
,or have time, or care, some are very strict etc.

ps I posted my BAS yesterday

 

[Spaghetti]

If you compare search engine results from today to 10 years ago there is already dramtic improvement in accessible content. You would really need an url address to visit sites that are inappropiate. So for a child to just happen across a pr0n site for example would be quite remote. Seems the internet is self regulating so no need for government intervention.

 

[derty]

And this comment just goes to show how far from reality you all are .

Guess its good they havnt censored my ability to see what the net has created .

If censoring gets rid of pathetic comments like this im definately all for it .

cruise - you seem to have quite a blinkered view on life, I might go as far as to say that you have already imposed a self-censorship on what you class as reality.

reality is that children as young as 10 and 11 are having sex nowdays, many kids have had sex by 13 and much more experiment with oral sex etc.

The world is changing, media and advertising sexualises our children at a young age these days. Would you like to censor that too? I'm not a big fan of it, I think that their methods are insidious. But that's progress, and sometimes there are a few steps backwards. Look at every main phase in popular youth culture and you will see the adults of that time saying that they youth has no respect, society is doomed and the world is becoming full of criminals. Then those youth grow up to say the same of their youth.

To stop this you will need much more than internet censorship. You will need a whole raft of draconian laws. You could give police wide ranging powers and place incentives for people to inform on their debaucherous neighbours. A widespread campaign of fear might help and lets enlist the support of right-wing Christianity to show the populace the way forward.

Well that doesn't sound much like progress to me.

And cruise, paedophiles aren't created by the internet. Most paedophiles are a result of being the victims of paedophilia as a child. So the people who created the current crop of paedophiles did not have the internet.

so stop going lalalallalalallaaaa and take you fingers out of your ears and have a good look around.