Imminent and severe market correction

[rub92me]

What annoys me mostly is the dumb generalisations about all groups, i.e. all Gen Y are selfish and irresponsible. Complete rubbish.

What a dumb generalisation Mostly rubbish perhaps?

 

[Julia]

Stop being picky, it WAS the baby boomers generation that brought in all the crap that we have to put up with today including low doc loans, easy credit, plastic shopping bags, global warming (if it is caused by humans) toxic waste and lots of other evil stuff.

I'll be picky if I like! I really dislike being characterised as part of the cause of the crap you describe above.
Let's remember that the baby boomer generation is generally agreed to encompass people born from 1946 to 1964, far too great a span of years to classify every person born in that time as having similar characteristics.

And you need to make up your mind: you say baby boomers 'brought in all the crap....... including global warming'. Then your next phrase expresses doubt that it is in fact caused by humans!

Easy credit? When I first applied for a mortgage after being divorced, it was still not unheard of for the bank manager to request the loan be guaranteed by a 'responsible male'. Yes, really!

Now we've got school kids needing to wear radiation suits in the playground because we created the hole in the ozone layer,

Nothing like a little exaggeration if it bolsters your case.

we also have a special day where they can wear gloves and pick up all the **** we leave lying around and when they're not doing that they're learning how to make plants grow without water.

All generations participate in cleaning up rubbish. Every day I collect plastic bags from the beach in the hope of saving the occasional turtle life.

No running in the sprinkler for them, we fixed that too.

Oh for god's sake, get real. The water shortage is directly related to successive governments failing to plan for increased population.
Anyway, kids can run in the sprinkler where I live to their hearts' content.

 

[MrBurns]

Well Julia you are a part of that generation even if you personally didnt do anything wrong, I'm the same but 'm part of it and take responsibility along my peers, we messed up bad and the kids will pay for it.

including global warming'. Then your next phrase expresses doubt that it is in fact caused by humans!

If it is caused by humans then it was the baby boomers generation.

 

[Julia]

There are always exceptions to any generalization. You are to be commended for your lifestyle/actions and your friends julia.. especially given what has been happening around you. In a way your lucky that your social circle is made up of responsible/sensible and less materialistic people than the general public. Imagine the situation where people buy goods they cant afford like fancy cars and boats then their friends see this get jealous, then do the same then others see.. and it spreads like wildfire...

So individuals have no personal responsibility with regard to their choices?
Impossible not to get swept up in the "let's have it all now' maelstrom?
Sorry, Kransky, but I find that a fairly pathetic excuse.

if you read sites like nakedcapitalism you would read the crazy stories out of the US like i have. People who with regular income levels were buying very expensive houses even multiple houses all on loans, then buying boats and having multiple cars on loans too... living very extravagantly. You would not believe the insane stuff that has been going on esp in the US.

I don't need to read sites like 'nakedcapitalism' to know what has been happening. It has been all over the mainstream media for more than a year.
We are currently seeing the human reality of this in the Storm Financial thread.

Who put a gun to the heads of the people you refer to above, or forced them to sign up for more than they could afford? No one.

Who is more at fault the greedy bastards who made the loans to get bonuses or the sheep that were too busy trying to look/get rich to understand that money for nothing wasnt going to last forever? I dont know...

I'd say it's pretty hard to differentiate between the two when it comes down to being realistic.

Kransky, I'd be interested to know your own age group, and your views about personal responsibility, general ethics etc.

I guess all our attitudes are influenced by several factors, possibly primarily by the way we were brought up. My parents experienced the latter part of the Great Depression and consequently took the view that rewards had to be worked for. As a kid and a young adult, I put things I wanted on layby.
You've probably never heard of layby? It was when you couldn't afford something, so you had the store put it aside until you could afford to pay for it in full. Credit? Never!

So it's a whole different philosophy to what applies these days where it seems to be often a case of "I want it so I'll have it now. No need to think about paying for it, just put it on the card."

Obviously credit is a fundamental part of our lives. Businesses are failing because they can't refinance. Soon more and more individuals will be finding the same as jobs are lost.

But, hey, each to his own. If the need to have the latest model car, biggest house, latest designer clothes is what does it for you, then good luck to you.
(Not you specifically, Kransky, but all the people who are immersed in this competitive culture.)

 

[TheAbyss]

Well Julia you are a part of that generation even if you personally didnt do anything wrong, I'm the same but 'm part of it and take responsibility along my peers, we messed up bad and the kids will pay for it.

Lo doc loans were created because a lot more workers were under contract rather than salaried so they did not have the usual criteria to obtain a home. This is what a lo doc loan is for. The fact that some people commenced using these loans to obtain investment properties they couldnt ever afford so they could do a quick reno and sell it again does not dispute the need for a lo doc loan for a plumber or handyman to use one to buy a home.

The guilty are the users not the provider. If you gamble is it the Casinor or TAB's fault? Whether it is credit or gambling you cannot blame the supplier. Look in the mirror, you will find the one responsible. In the end it is each individual to make their own decisions. Anyone who wants to take the responsibility for the wrong decisions of others has other issues that they need to resolve.

Our kids will make their own decisions, some good some bad just like the generations before them. Some will learn from them and some will not. Thats what creates a society. It is not up to the parents to take responisibility for their childrens choices in life. Our role is to ensure they are informed enough to be able to make a decision.

Perhaps a new thread should be started and everyone can throw brick bats at the generations of bygone eras and the current ones. If that doesnt suit you, you can always shoulder some responisibility for the worlds ills and listen to the plaudits and platitudes from the masses.

 

[kransky]

You have lost me Kransky. Making generalisations against any group is fraught with danger. I suggest you point out specifics rather than taking out your trusty shot gun and letting rip.

Gees.. why are people so protective of their generation? Arent you taking it a bit personally? Your not responsible for the actions of others who happen to be of a similar age..

baby boomers were those born from 1946 to 1964... so those that are 45-63 years old right now.

The real growth in housing and stock prices and thus credit happened from about 2001 after the tech bust onwards to today. So BBers were 37-55yo when this started.

http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,28323,24868470-462,00.html

http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=100573&t=01001019292467236494

http://blogs.domain.com.au/2007/08/blame_it_on_the_boomers.html

I am not the judge and executioner.. i am simply expressing what i have heard/read..

 

[kransky]

Julia i am not excusing people for what they do.. i am just trying to understand how/why they do what they do.. (ie overspend)

imo 99% of people have very little knowledge of economics/finance so i find it hard to be overly critical of them.. except i am disappointed by their greed.

I think those in power are more responsible for this by creating the conditions that led to the current problems. Rates stayed too low after 2001 and everyone jumped on the housing bubble ride. The crooks who lied to poor groups in the states to buy houses they should obviously not have are also to blame.. but they too know little of the consequences of their actions.. what if prices kept going up and up and up.. everything possibly seemed ok from their perspective... the blame goes to greenspan/bernanke etc etc

I started from very humble beginnings as my family emigrated to OZ when i was 5 with 2 suitcases of clothes. I am in my early 30s. I take a very cautious approach with spending money. I dont own a house and my car is 8 years old.

 

[nunthewiser]

Itsa late at night , ima fulla bourbon.................. BUT has got this profdound fact to share , even tho many here already know it


blame Billy Clinton


gawd bless the free world

 

[TheAbyss]

Gees.. why are people so protective of their generation? Arent you taking it a bit personally? Your not responsible for the actions of others who happen to be of a similar age..

baby boomers were those born from 1946 to 1964... so those that are 45-63 years old right now.

The real growth in housing and stock prices and thus credit happened from about 2001 after the tech bust onwards to today. So BBers were 37-55yo when this started.

http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,28323,24868470-462,00.html

http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=100573&t=01001019292467236494

http://blogs.domain.com.au/2007/08/blame_it_on_the_boomers.html

I am not the judge and executioner.. i am simply expressing what i have heard/read..

Sounds like a lot of positives were initiated by the boomers then. I guess it depends on your perspective. Given the maturing age of the boomers, most would have been in their business prime in 2001 and perhaps the bulk have stepped back somewhat and doing the life style change these days and have handed over to the next generation at the upper levels while we concentrate on matters closer to home. Is this what has caused the current financial climate? Perhaps the keys were handed over prematurely?

I commend you on taking the time to read and listen to information. My advice would be to digest that information, form some ideas of your own and then use that as your base line. We are all able to do internet research and susbscribe to what we are interested in so just repeateing commentary is repetition that doesnt do justice to your intellect. Your posts are usually well thought out and i am not targetting you i just do not appreciate being a target nor watching others being targetted for no reason other than when they were born.

Julia i am not excusing people for what they do.. i am just trying to understand how/why they do what they do.. (ie overspend)

imo 99% of people have very little knowledge of economics/finance so i find it hard to be overly critical of them.. except i am disappointed by their greed.

I think those in power are more responsible for this by creating the conditions that led to the current problems. Rates stayed too low after 2001 and everyone jumped on the housing bubble ride. The crooks who lied to poor groups in the states to buy houses they should obviously not have are also to blame.. but they too know little of the consequences of their actions.. what if prices kept going up and up and up.. everything possibly seemed ok from their perspective... the blame goes to greenspan/bernanke etc etc

I started from very humble beginnings as my family emigrated to OZ when i was 5 with 2 suitcases of clothes. I am in my early 30s. I take a very cautious approach with spending money. I dont own a house and my car is 8 years old.

Yet you are active in the stockmarket and have a fancy car as your avatar. Is this because you want to improve your life style and be able to support loved ones when required or are you a credit using waster of money evolving from your humble upbringing? One could generalise you into either class or in fact a raft of others.

My solitary point is that you should not generalis epeople as after all we are all unique, just like everybody else. be specific.


We could make a lot of generalisations about migrants but that would not be fair so why do you insist that it is fair to generalise baby boomers or any other group Kransky?

 

[kransky]

if you read my original post on this issue 3949 you will see that i made a definite effort to say that not all BBers are responsible.. Its stupid and pointless trying to "blame" a generation. There is nothing to be gained. And it was never my aim.

Undoubtedly some of those younger and older than the BBers have had a hand in this too...

I just dont see why people are so offended by comments that are so obviously a generalization.

generalization:

a proposition asserting something to be true either of all members of a certain class or of an indefinite part of that class.

to say something very basic, based on limited facts, that is partly or sometimes true, but not always

 

[MrBurns]

if you read my original post on this issue 3949 you will see that i made a definite effort to say that not all BBers are responsible.. Its stupid and pointless trying to "blame" a generation. There is nothing to be gained. And it was never my aim.

Undoubtedly some of those younger and older than the BBers have had a hand in this too...

I just dont see why people are so offended by comments that are so obviously a generalization.

generalization:

a proposition asserting something to be true either of all members of a certain class or of an indefinite part of that class.

to say something very basic, based on limited facts, that is partly or sometimes true, but not always

Anyone who takes personal offense because you blame a generation for something is a bit slow, you can except a generation was to blame without taking personal responsibility, I dont make plastic bags or do anything wrong but I fully accept it's my generation that is responsible for the world as it is today................I mean who else can you blame ?

 

[TheAbyss]

Back to the topic,

Generalisation - Oi, The US markets were up last night = Pretty generic information with no substance and of little value.

Fact - Did you note that mid session last night the US dollar retreated which saw commodities rise and subsequently stocks lifted in their wake?

Can you tell which is more worthwhile reading?

Generalisations can stay in the general thread perhaps and i wont read them there.

 

[sassa]

Generalisations can stay in the general thread perhaps and i wont read them there.

Along with punctuation errors.

 

[knocker]

When do we get to short the **** out of the market next?

 

[CanOz]

When do we get to short the **** out of the market next?

Short selling ban on Financials extended to something like March 6th.

CanOz

 

[kransky]

i have been looking to short for a while now... shorted the s n p at 820 2 days ago... didnt take a profit at 803 as wasnt on the computer.. then scraped a profit in mid last night.

not sure what the best strategy is due to the market volatility... slowly keep adding to a growing short position ignoring price variations? or wait for few day rally and short a fair bit then take a profit on medium size falls or small ones.

except i wannt to be in when the s n p goes down to 600 or 500... it will come imo... i dont think we are bottom of eco and earnings news by a longshot.

 

[IFocus]

i have been looking to short for a while now... shorted the s n p at 820 2 days ago... didnt take a profit at 803 as wasnt on the computer.. then scraped a profit in mid last night.

not sure what the best strategy is due to the market volatility... slowly keep adding to a growing short position ignoring price variations? or wait for few day rally and short a fair bit then take a profit on medium size falls or small ones.

except i wannt to be in when the s n p goes down to 600 or 500... it will come imo... i dont think we are bottom of eco and earnings news by a longshot.

Kransky if I can suggest set targets to take profits or if you want to try and catch a bigger move leave a partial position on.

Personally I keep with all on all of and walk away start looking for the next setup and don't get hung up on missed profits as I didn't miss anything if they were not in my method.

Cognitive dissonance is the death of any trader

 

[sinner]

I reckon best strategy is to average into NYSE:SDS. Looking on doing this myself, wish FX and gold weren't so distracting.

 

[sassa]

Technically, the Nasdaq and S&P both closed above some important resistance today (although just barely for the S&P) which is good for the bulls. It would be nice however for the market to be able to hold a rally/breakout like this just once without the government (or should I say taxpayers) getting involved and sponsoring it. That's one reason I still doubt this move and don't plan on playing it. We are also definitely overbought now on some short-term indicators and the others I watch like the McClellan are getting there very quickly as well. Maybe this time will be different - maybe this will be the rally that sticks. But everytime we have had one of these rallies where we get overbought with very little leadership, they have quickly failed, and that's still what I expect to happen here.


There is no good fundamental news right now -- that is, the employment picture still stinks, people are spending less, manufacturing is cratering, housing is in a hole...you get the idea. There is no fundamental reason for the rally. That leads me to think this just isn't sustainable.

Let's also remember an important rule: the market will make an ass out of you whenever possible

http://www.bonddad.blogspot.com/

 

[Aussiejeff]

Short selling ban on Financials extended to something like March 6th.

CanOz

By then, the Japanese economy should be totally screwed. Good timing for a "short" storm in Oz?

Massive losses and cutbacks struck top Japanese companies on Friday, with electronics giant NEC alone shedding 20,000 jobs, as dire forecasts poured in from firms worldwide.

Japan announced a triple slump in key economic data, with industrial output, consumer spending and employment all sharply down, and said there was no end in sight to the bad news.

The data echoed gloomy reports on the health of the economy in the United States, where President Barack Obama took aim at what he called the "shameful" bonuses given to Wall Street bankers during the financial crisis.

December's 9.6 per cent drop in industrial output from the previous month was the steepest such decline on record, raising fears Japan's economy suffered its biggest contraction in decades in the fourth quarter of 2008.

"The problem is very serious," Economics Minister Kaoru Yosano said. "As to when the economy will bottom out, it is impossible to predict at this time as the problem is not only domestic but global."

Japan's unemployment rate jumped to 4.4 per cent in December, the country's highest rate in three years, while household spending tumbled 4.6 per cent as consumers tightened their belts.

Analysts say Japan's economy now looks set to log its worst quarter since the oil crisis in 1974.

News of the global slowdown was no surprise to Japanese companies, which announced a raft of gloomy earnings data on Friday that underlined the severity of the crisis facing Asia's largest economy.

Electronics giant NEC said it was slashing 20,000 jobs worldwide to cope with the economic crisis and forecast a loss of $US3.2 billion ($A4.91 billion).

http://compareshares.com.au/show_news.php?id=S-547764