Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

House prices to keep falling for years

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Both sides are right.

What you have to understand in real-estate is there are cultural differences between countries.

Here in Australia we have a very high home ownership ratio relative to the US (I can't remember the exact ratio but it is something like we have double the ownership rate of the US per capita and even more so than in England where it is very low).

Because of that cultural difference the demand for houses here in Australia (particularly major capital cities) will always be high (Australian's are basically coastal fringe dwellers). With a net immigration (also into those cities) you have a constant demand for housing.

robots and most property people understand is that in the long term (> 10 years) houses will appreciate in *intrinsic* value due to those demands. Hence why the double in 7 year rule.

The doom sayers on the other hand are right but for different reasons - it is the credit bubble added on top of the *intrinsic* value of housing that causes negative equity. What goes on here is that people (often highly leveraged due to low credit ratings or just starting out - hence outer suburbs where housing is cheaper) buy into the market late in the game at the point of highest rate of credit creation then the credit gets withdrawn. At this point the non-intrinsic value disappears as no new buyers come into play at the inflated figures (remember banks are not lending as much) and we hear cases of "negative equity maaaaate".

Those successful in real-estate have either learnt this or got lucky and entered the cycle early in the game - they have either positive or neutral equity. Either that or their gearing ratio is low enough that the outgoings are not killing their investment.

If you can hold on until either the intrinsic value of property goes up and/or the bubble value comes back again (as it will eventually) you will make money.

In the US there is an excessive supply problem in a lot of cities (caused by credit creation allowing developers to build more than demand really wanted). With a different cultural and legislative environment their housing problem - loss of equity is different to ours.

Question here is - is real-estate money easy money? I personally (my opinion) don't think so - but I am more a business and stock market focussed investor. For me having to look after tennants, spend weekends running around looking at run down properties then fixing them up is not my idea of fun. My fun is going to Sydney staying at the Intercon, dressing up to go to the Opera and spending quality time with my wife and family. Easy money is having companies and other people work for me rather than me subsidising someone to live in a house. But that is a personal preference. Some do enjoy being covered in plaster and paint on their weekends :rolleyes:

However I will say to be in the stockmarket you do need to be a bit smarter about the economy than owning houses here in Australia. It is relatively easier to own investment property and make money than it is to do the same with shares particularly in times like these if you don't understand the game.

hello,

great post lakemac,

i wouldnt have clue what happens in the future,

we have to live somewhere and your "own home" is an option

thankyou
robots
 
We do have both! Both sides just seem to go to whichever thread is getting posts at the time. Personally I think the discussion would be pretty bland if there weren't a debate going on:2twocents

As for downrampers ruining the discussion, that's your opinion, I'm sure many people think just the opposite.



Yes your absolutely right robots, there are ways around these things, I'm sure some have done it. Generally they will slip up eventually though so if you're right, I'm sure we'll find out later. In the meantime it would be great if the thread wouldn't be sidetracked by people accusing others of having multiple usernames. That goes for a few other people posting on here too:2twocents

Understood. If anything its probably more the post whoring and off topic that combine with the bickering to give bad first impression of the thread.
 
Well, I think you should.

Makes it look like a bit of a joke compared to the moderating in other parts on here.

I'll mention it to Joe, though think it would be an absolute nightmare for us mods so can already guess how he'll react:2twocents



Basically you are giving the ok for anyone here to ramp on the XAO thread as far as I'm concerned.

basically I am. Whiskers has been doing it for months and look how far it's got him:)
 
Mr Burns, release the hounds, on moronic.

I could crush him like an ant. But it would be too easy. No, revenge is a dish best served cold. I'll bide my time until ... Oh, what the hell. I'll just crush him like an ant.
 
I could crush him like an ant. But it would be too easy. No, revenge is a dish best served cold. I'll bide my time until ... Oh, what the hell. I'll just crush him like an ant.

You could always release the robotic Richard Simmons first:2twocents
 
Now now, you might need me to offer you shelter in the coming depression.
Buy now. You snooze you lose. ;-)
 
You could always release the robotic Richard Simmons first:2twocents

I was saving that for later !!!

I think you're the one who deleted a previous offensive post of mine.

I may require the odd bit of editing as the troglodytes do enrage me from time to time.
 
I was saving that for later !!!

I think you're the one who deleted a previous offensive post of mine.

I may require the odd bit of editing as the troglodytes do enrage me from time to time.

Cause you know we are right. Leverage up and buy some nice sunglasses because the future is bright.
 
I was saving that for later !!!

I think you're the one who deleted a previous offensive post of mine.

I may require the odd bit of editing as the troglodytes do enrage me from time to time.

and yet if you were to have them killed, you would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you.

Cause you know we are right. Leverage up and buy some nice sunglasses because the future is bright.

Don't you think you've made your point already?
 
Sorry I was deliberatley post whoring. I saw robot do it about 5 times tonight and figured Id found the one thread on the entire internet where its the done thing. :confused:

Despite the fact that the bears don't like him, they all missed him when we gave him an enforced holiday a while back so we let him back in. Do you think you'll be missed by the bears and we'll let you back in? You are quite welcome to keep going and find out!
 
Anyone have a real thought to add to this instead of just trolling?

robots (and others) maybe you can educate the trolls (and myself):

what does your typical investment in property look like?

I have asked these questions in other places so I will repeat them here so we can all learn.

Firstly what LVR do you use?
What kind of area do you invest in (eg. high value suburbs vs high yield ones - usually regional areas)?
The LVR and area will give an idea of the cost/return from any given investment. I am curious as to what the experts use.

Are the properties ready to rent or do they require refurbishment? If they need a touch up how much additional investment (as a percentage of initial property price) do you put in to fix it up?

If you are negative gearing any given property how do you fund that? From another business, wages, other investments?

Next, how do you expand the portfolio? Is it buy borrowing against the increased equity in the existing properties or do you sell and bring in other peoples money to do what Steve McKnight's original double up strategy does? (He waits till the equity increase covers two new deposits plus taxation plus selling/buying costs of two new properties). That way he doubles his portfolio size every time and at the same time sucks in more external equity giving him higher deposit figures.

So can we have some real answers and all learn something here?
 
and yet if you were to have them killed, you would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you.

Look at them frink stuffing their faces with donuts on my time! That's right, keep eating...Little do they know they're 'drawing ever closer to the poison donut!
There is a poison one, isn't there frink?

Err...no, sir. I discussed this with our lawyers and they consider it murder.
 
Anyone have a real thought to add to this instead of just trolling?

robots (and others) maybe you can educate the trolls (and myself):

what does your typical investment in property look like?

I have asked these questions in other places so I will repeat them here so we can all learn.

Firstly what LVR do you use?
What kind of area do you invest in (eg. high value suburbs vs high yield ones - usually regional areas)?
The LVR and area will give an idea of the cost/return from any given investment. I am curious as to what the experts use.

Are the properties ready to rent or do they require refurbishment? If they need a touch up how much additional investment (as a percentage of initial property price) do you put in to fix it up?

If you are negative gearing any given property how do you fund that? From another business, wages, other investments?

Next, how do you expand the portfolio? Is it buy borrowing against the increased equity in the existing properties or do you sell and bring in other peoples money to do what Steve McKnight's original double up strategy does? (He waits till the equity increase covers two new deposits plus taxation plus selling/buying costs of two new properties). That way he doubles his portfolio size every time and at the same time sucks in more external equity giving him higher deposit figures.

So can we have some real answers and all learn something here?

Well yes somey can get all scientific and confuse themselves into buying but most investors dont but I dont expect any of those types on this thread. You dont need to.

In essence you are making a bet on price rises. A leap of faith. You know what a bet is right? You just have to trust us agents that its a goldmine.

If you are buying a home, which is not an investment unless you intend to downsize, then just buy somethink you like. Its pretty simple really.
 
Anyone have a real thought to add to this instead of just trolling?

robots (and others) maybe you can educate the trolls (and myself):

what does your typical investment in property look like?

2 units, live in one rent the other

I have asked these questions in other places so I will repeat them here so we can all learn.

Firstly what LVR do you use?

bought first one on 90% in 1998, rocked up to bank got the loan CBA, second one 2 yrs ago, put up 40k so around 80% lvr, CBA

What kind of area do you invest in (eg. high value suburbs vs high yield ones - usually regional areas)?

area was where i could afford to buy, bayside as I have a preference for it from lifestyle

The LVR and area will give an idea of the cost/return from any given investment. I am curious as to what the experts use.

Are the properties ready to rent or do they require refurbishment? If they need a touch up how much additional investment (as a percentage of initial property price) do you put in to fix it up?

home has had money put in 20k, invest rented, not putting in yet

If you are negative gearing any given property how do you fund that? From another business, wages, other investments?

wages/job humble building worker

Next, how do you expand the portfolio? Is it buy borrowing against the increased equity in the existing properties or do you sell and bring in other peoples money to do what Steve McKnight's original double up strategy does? (He waits till the equity increase covers two new deposits plus taxation plus selling/buying costs of two new properties). That way he doubles his portfolio size every time and at the same time sucks in more external equity giving him higher deposit figures.

i and I say i, am mainly looking to move in time from one place (home) into the investment, make home and rent first home out, this is long term plan, may never get anything else

So can we have some real answers and all learn something here?

Hello,

i am in it for mostly lifestyle and if money comes along then so be it, looking for greener pastures in 20-30yrs when i can walk this fine country with ease

so investment was bought mainly for future "lifestyle" decision, moving to different bayside area, downsizing as such

very much a believer in your home being your biggest investment, wouldnt have a clue what happens in the future

thankyou
robots
 
Hello,

i am in it for mostly lifestyle and if money comes along then so be it, looking for greener pastures in 20-30yrs when i can walk this fine country with ease

so investment was bought mainly for future "lifestyle" decision, moving to different bayside area, downsizing as such

very much a believer in your home being your biggest investment, wouldnt have a clue what happens in the future

thankyou
robots

There you go!
 
hello,

great night, the discussion has been awesome

have a great day tomorrow, enjoy the moment, love thy neighbour and please spread the word that everything is fine here in Australia

thankyou very much, robots has left the building

thankyou
robots
 
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