Has the 100 year Jihad (war) begun ... ???

[orr]

Could be just a coincedence of course;


"Two Chinese warships have docked at Iran’s principal naval port for the first time in history."

As reported in the Nytimes today.
Just in for a bit of R&R?

The 'Tony Speacial', for lunch down, in the mess today and bigger mess tomorrow. 'Kurd Sandwich'
Followed for brekky tomorrow 'Gulf of Tonkin Re-hash'.......

High Terror Alert Game stats so far;

Australians Murdered By Fanatics.............................. 0
Australian Women Murdered by their Partners.............. 3.2

 

[Sir Osisofliver]

I'm seeing a lot of comments along the lines of "why don't moderates speak out?" without anybody actually finding out if they are...which doesn't seem to be a particularly balanced view of the topic. There are moderate voices that are deploring what is happening in regards to ISIL. There's a couple of examples I can think of off the top of my head that have been in the news a few times...

#Notinmyname

Dr Jamal Rifi - Grand Mufti of Australia

Mohamed Elomar's own Dad

A quick google of the topic brings up plenty of examples from all over the world of moderate Muslims condemning the actions of ISIL. I'm concerned over the apparent bias I'm seeing in the thread. I work closely with an Iranian Muslim guy...he's one of the nicest guys I know, so I get concerned when I see comments that brand all Muslims with the "they are all extremists" brush. Seems short-sighted. People are just people.

Cheers

Sir O

 

[Tisme]

If Islam is well structured then surely the extremists can't hide behind the dogma even without "an independent judiciary, backed up by a parliament and ultimately the defence forces, to handle the judgements"?

Well they can and they do because they break the laws.

I was reading the drivel that is the Courier Mail this morning and the editor (I think he was germinated and raised from a seed packet of Yates "Grand LNP" ) decided to wax lyrical about how we are tolerant society, predicated on a history of freedom, fair go, classlessness, mateship, work ethic and apparently we are an Anglo-Irish tradition at that.

I don't know what history books they taught at Christopher Dore's school, but I'm pretty sure Ray Martin's reinventions of the great Aussie bloke wasn't compulsory reading.

Australia as I was lessoned was at best struggle street for much of it's history, with landed gentrified squattocracies (the bedrock of the Libs) running workers ragged while they headed to the ocean for the summer breezes. The Irish were trouble makers at best and plagued the mining fields with their not so funny shenanigans. As late as the 20th century the Lawsons, Bango Patersons, CJ Dennis', etc were still at it with the bush versus city versus hand to mouth poverty.

The truth is that Australia has always had big government involvement because we had a big place with only a few people to develop it. The running gang battles, the ethnic tensions with and expulsion of Chinese, Kanakas, etc, the inequity of the genders, the aborigines, the blue collars, the living hell hostels for migrants etc seem to be conveniently ignored when it comes to fabricating a myth to engender some kind of fantastical society of "fair go".

It wasn't niceness that caused Governor Philip and the succeeding Govs to share equitably the food store with covs and cons alike, but survival of the colony; however he is the "fair go" origin bloke IMO that planted the seed in between flogging people for not behaving. Macquarie was another fella who seemed to have had his ruling class epaulettes tarnished in favour of nation building with his notion of best man for the job attitude.

It's the govt who decided to square things up for the working class after the capitalists had hijacked our birth rights for profits, by introducing world firsts like arbitration commissions, basic wages, fair days pay for a fair day's pay. etc.

All we ever asked for was that anyone who came here didn't scab on his work mates, learned English, absorbed the racial taunts without protest, assimilated into our part of the British Isles, had a healthy distrust of any politician who made the mistake of thinking he was one of us and you just didn't sh!+ the mob. Barracking for the right team also didn't hurt. If we were all going to be marooned on a desert island with aggressive neighbours to the north we had to get on and be seen to be fair while trying to shake down fools with money and means.

That's Tisme's eye of the past. Maybe things weren't so candy canes and fairy floss before Al Grassby, but no matter how we look at the past the all pervasive smell from Govt is all over our psyche and it's govt that needs to show mature leadership, not playing new jet setting kid on the UN block to whip up international ferment for war.

We don't need Chris Dore's romantic notions of a matey nation built on the sweat of blokes (sans women and natives) who did it for a fair go and obsequious devotion to LNP neo nationalism; the obvious paper thin corollary being that the narks on the outer promising to cause mayhem because their feelings have been hurt cum insulted, should understand we (Rupert Murdoch) are merely humouring them for now, but tread carefully.

That these new mice that now roar with swords, practice a ubiquitous slavishness to a book of words written by empire building bloodlusting blokes who hadn't conceived of human cultural evolution, industrial revolutions, knowledge flourishes and that smarts is not the preserve of those with rat cunning, speaks heaps about how people will opt for a lazy way out everytime their comfort zones are threatened...and as usual there's no better way of copping out than to blame others, look for a green light in a religious book of sky fairies and omnipotents written by millennia dead bludgers. It breaks the boredom of the same thing day in day out; putting on a uniform and going to war for some cause, whatever cause in the name of an invisible delinquent landlord who hasn't had the good sense to fence in his sheep from spoiling the crop ..... and that's just the Catholics !

 

[SirRumpole]

Funny how we haven't heard anything from Israel about this ISIL business.

You would have thought they would be one of the first in, considering how important the US is to them in terms of arms and money.

 

[luutzu]

Could be just a coincedence of course;


"Two Chinese warships have docked at Iran’s principal naval port for the first time in history."

As reported in the Nytimes today.
Just in for a bit of R&R?

The 'Tony Speacial', for lunch down, in the mess today and bigger mess tomorrow. 'Kurd Sandwich'
Followed for brekky tomorrow 'Gulf of Tonkin Re-hash'.......

High Terror Alert Game stats so far;

Australians Murdered By Fanatics.............................. 0
Australian Women Murdered by their Partners.............. 3.2

China is setting up permanent bases in the South China Sea, claiming some 90% of that blue water with gas reserves estimated to be able to supply its current need for 100 years, with 10% or so of the world's fisheries and through which 1/3 of the world's trade passes.

It is funding oppositions in Burma, its one time friend who recently join our side; Trying to make nice with India, and making nice with Vietnam after its recent oil rig fumble; It's been hard at work in Africa securing oils and mineral resources... when its second aircraft carrier battle group is ready by 2017...

It's going to be an interesting century.

 

[luutzu]

Funny how we haven't heard anything from Israel about this ISIL business.

You would have thought they would be one of the first in, considering how important the US is to them in terms of arms and money.

Israel is one of those friends you help but can't really use.

To be fair, I heard from Stephen Walt that if Israel join any alliance the US try to form with Arab states, the Arabs would get out and will not join.

That and the latest incursion into Gaza costs it $50 million per day, or $2.5 billion for 50 days. Add to that the impact on its agricultural industry, its tourism industry, the Boycott Divest Sanction movement gaining traction against its goods... its economy isn't doing too good.

Funny thing is they expect Gaza to be a quick win, like it always was... just in and out in 5 or 10 days. They didn't expect the tunnels and the resistance.


Our PM is making it out like we're going in, drop a few bombs and a few humanitarian packets and be home before Christmas.

Obama just upset Assad, aim to bomb his country and arm its rebels. Why would Syrian rebels fighting against Assad want to fight ISIS for the West? You would imagine that they're smart enough to keep ISIS the goose that get you aid and funding from a superpower, not help kill the golden goose and be left to your own devices own the job's done.

 

[DB008]

Islamic State urges Muslims to kill Australian ‘unbelievers’

AUSTRALIA has received a direct threat from Islamic State fighters in a chilling new video recording, which the government believes is genuine.

The 42-minute propaganda video, which has been circulated on social media, urges Muslims to launch attacks on civilians in a number of countries including France, Australia and Canada, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation News reported.

The audio, which is in Arabic but translated in an 11-page document online, calls on Muslims everywhere to attack anyone involved in the US-led coalition against it.

In the video, which has been uploaded to Twitter, IS spokesman Abu Muhammad al-Adnani said Muslims should kill “disbelievers” in countries that support “in any manner” the military action against the group in Iraq.

“If you can kill a disbelieving American or European ”” especially the spiteful and filthy French ”” or an Australian, or a Canadian, or any other disbeliever from the disbelievers waging war, including the citizens of the countries that entered into a coalition against the Islamic State … kill him in any manner or way however it may be,” Adnani is heard saying, according to the translated document.

“Do not ask for anyone’s advice and do not seek anyone’s verdict. Kill the disbeliever whether he is civilian or military, for they have the same ruling.”

He also tells supporters they are “like predatory warriors” who “face death bare chests”.

http://www.news.com.au/national/islamic-state-urges-muslims-to-kill-australian-unbelievers/story-fncynjr2-1227066847053

 

[Macquack]

The Muslims community should be given the ultimatum.

Are you with us or against in our way of life?.....if you are with us then accept our way of life....if you are against us then go back to where Islam is practiced in your home country,

What about the Commos, Noco, what about the Commos?

Have you given up on your quest to rid Australia of the Reds under the Bed?

Is Muslim bashing your new flavour of the month?

At least make up your mind who you hate the most.

 

[Julia]

Our PM is making it out like we're going in, drop a few bombs and a few humanitarian packets and be home before Christmas.

That is your interpretation, given your entrenched political stance.
I took no such message from what he has said. Actually, entirely to the contrary. By criticising Abbott and the government you are saying our intelligence services are mistaken/entirely worthless/choose your own expression.
I suppose in such a free country as Australia you have the right to make such an assertion.

Make the most of it.

 

[banco]

Funny how we haven't heard anything from Israel about this ISIL business.

You would have thought they would be one of the first in, considering how important the US is to them in terms of arms and money.

If you knew anything about the middle east you'd know that the last thing the US would want in the world would be Israel openly taking military action against ISIS alongside US.

 

[luutzu]

That is your interpretation, given your entrenched political stance.
I took no such message from what he has said. Actually, entirely to the contrary. By criticising Abbott and the government you are saying our intelligence services are mistaken/entirely worthless/choose your own expression.
I suppose in such a free country as Australia you have the right to make such an assertion.

Make the most of it.

I don't think I have a political stance, if by that you mean Labor or Liberal or Greens... I'm just sceptical.

A few weeks ago, Abbott said there won't be boots on the grounds; last week he send off 600 special forces [?] with a few F-16s. So OK, I'm wrong that he won't expect them to be home before Christmas.

With regards to the raids... I have no opinions worth anything there. Though it's a bit of a coincidence that it happen just before the military send off and within the news cycle of debates on bills to increase our intelligence and AFP powers and funding.

I just heard on ABC's Q&A that the agencies have been on to this group since May this year. That since an attack is imminent, they have to act. Coincidentals or politically convenient as it might appear, safety first.

So I make no judgment about our security agencies, I don't know the facts and trust that they are doing the right thing. Though I wouldn't put politics above anyone's decisions, especially when it's not harmful to help a gov't who's trying to give you more power and more money.

With regard to my criticism of the gov't. It's with this drive to war, this fear-mongering and this idiotic Terror Alert system. Have nothing to do with ASIO or what they interpret or know.

The agencies should tell the gov't the risks and their assessments... the gov't does not need to scare the public with it. Unless the gov't is asking us to enlist and go to the front line, what use is it to the people to know that at any time, any place, they could be kidnap and murder? Telling ordinary people to be alert make none of us any safer, and less safe for the non-terrorist Muslim-Australians.

The US, under Obama, had removed Bush's Terror Alert. I'm pretty sure the NSA and CIA etc. are working just as hard and brief the gov't on important security issues/threats without the public needing to know about the levels.

 

[luutzu]

Islamic State urges Muslims to kill Australian ‘unbelievers’



http://www.news.com.au/national/islamic-state-urges-muslims-to-kill-australian-unbelievers/story-fncynjr2-1227066847053

I'm not trying to make light of that threat or any threat by terrorists, but you know who's winning the war when only a few words from one side make the other side arms themselves to the teeth, looking at tossing away some unimportant liberties like not being locked up without charge; and have one neighbour turn against another.

I think the retired Soviet comrades are kicking themselves that they got into the arms race, the space race, the nuclear race... and ended up broke where all they needed was a couple millions, a few dozen terrorists, a lot of chatters and the West would just slowly go broke covering every inch of their territories.

 

[bellenuit]

I only saw parts of Q&A tonight, but was shocked by the naivety of some of the panellists in regards to the origins of and reasons for the coming into being of ISIS and other such organisations.

This is a talk by Ayaan Hirsi Ali in Yale last week. The Muslim Students Association protested her presence and the Yale Atheists, Humanists, and Agnostics, who organised the forum (Clash of Civilizations: Islam and the West), initially withdrew her invitation but following protests from many other atheists and others re-invited her.

In the talk she gives a great insight into why Islam is what it is today (it wasn't always that way) and explains a lot about the reasons for what is happening today in the Middle East.

Her talk starts about the 10 minute mark.

 

[Tisme]

I don't think I have a political stance, if by that you mean Labor or Liberal or Greens... I'm just sceptical.

A few weeks ago, Abbott said there won't be boots on the grounds; last week he send off 600 special forces [?] with a few F-16s. So OK, I'm wrong that he won't expect them to be home before Christmas.

.

Takes a lot of support sappers and logistical staff to man the planes, manipulate the drones and back up each SAS advisor.

History would suggest the announcements of deployment are probably after the initial expeditionary crew have landed and set up a defensive ...which makes sense. I would suggest we have been on the ground for some time and a Xmas return is rather ambitious, given the next election is still 2 years out, which gives Julie plenty of time to insult and apologise to plenty more world leaders (which according to News Corp is a winner with the women voters of Oz).

 

[Tisme]

, looking at tossing away some unimportant liberties like not being locked up without charge; and have one neighbour turn against another.

I think you will find it's new LNP policy to restrain the rights of citizens, because their homework says we equate behavioural boundaries with safety. Law and Order is always the bellwether agenda for political parties, coupled with the far right attitudes of the Libs that means licences to do anything, fines for being impudent and VLAD style legislations.

We aren't the same country we were 40 years ago and we are socially poorer for it, IMO. Back then a man could count on bikini clad girls wandering the city malls, but now we are distracted by burlap wearing, wannabe Bedouin women chattels too ashamed to show themselves for fear of drawing attention to themselves and their possessive husband's ire. And we Anglo/Celtic/Norman/Nordic/Franco/Italiano/Germanic/Greco/Slavic/Russo/Oriental/etc Australians whose ancestors were put through the rigours of the Aussie new migrants assimilation grinder are too polite to make comment in case we make them feel uncomfortable ...FMD !!!

 

[Craton]

I'm seeing a lot of comments along the lines of "why don't moderates speak out?" without anybody actually finding out if they are...which doesn't seem to be a particularly balanced view of the topic. There are moderate voices that are deploring what is happening in regards to ISIL. There's a couple of examples I can think of off the top of my head that have been in the news a few times...

#Notinmyname

Dr Jamal Rifi - Grand Mufti of Australia

Mohamed Elomar's own Dad

A quick google of the topic brings up plenty of examples from all over the world of moderate Muslims condemning the actions of ISIL. I'm concerned over the apparent bias I'm seeing in the thread. I work closely with an Iranian Muslim guy...he's one of the nicest guys I know, so I get concerned when I see comments that brand all Muslims with the "they are all extremists" brush. Seems short-sighted. People are just people.

Cheers

Sir O

Good points Sir O.
I certainly don't consider all Muslins to be extremists. Biased from my point of view because I didn't see, hear much in the media from the Muslim community speaking up against the ISIL movement until the end of last week. Not that I'm glued to the media...

Now, must say, I do think the media has played into feeding the frenzy helping to whip up support for deployment of our armed forces. Clearly a far more balanced approach by our media is needed and hopefully, that is now occuring.

 

[Craton]

Well they can and they do because they break the laws.

<snip /> ..... and that's just the Catholics !

Wow, that's a fantastic diatribe, got that off your chest now?

This, however, put a smile on my dial...

We aren't the same country we were 40 years ago and we are socially poorer for it, IMO. Back then a man could count on bikini clad girls wandering the city malls, but now we are distracted by burlap wearing, wannabe Bedouin women chattels too ashamed to show themselves for fear of drawing attention to themselves and their possessive husband's ire. And we Anglo/Celtic/Norman/Nordic/Franco/Italiano/Germanic/Greco/Slavic/Russo/Oriental/etc Australians whose ancestors were put through the rigours of the Aussie new migrants assimilation grinder are too polite to make comment in case we make them feel uncomfortable ...FMD !!!

Thing is, ISIL doesn't make me laugh...

 

[noco]

Funny how we haven't heard anything from Israel about this ISIL business.

You would have thought they would be one of the first in, considering how important the US is to them in terms of arms and money.

Israel is too busy coping with ISIL"s brother Hamas.

 

[noco]

What about the Commos, Noco, what about the Commos?

Have you given up on your quest to rid Australia of the Reds under the Bed?

Is Muslim bashing your new flavour of the month?

At least make up your mind who you hate the most.

Some women give birth to natural comedians and some bear 'would be comedians'.

On a more serious note, communism is perhaps the lesser of two evils although they have the same intentions of world domination......Modern Communism in Australia today now execute their business in a more subtle way as did the self confessed communist Julia Gillard did in her short term which was plain to see by all.....a total disaster......Communism now go under the shadow of the Green/Labor party left wing socialist who practice democratic socialism with the support of the remaining content of the unions.....They just nibble their way without the naive really knowing what is going on......however, we must be thankful for the fact that modern communism have in recent times not used intimidation and fear......but when it is all boiled down communism has failed in the past and will fail again.

I probably do not need to comment on Islam as there has been enough in the media for you to see for yourself....Islam is very mixed up political society at the moment as much they really don't know who they are....on the one hand we have Islamic moderates living in Australia who condemn the radicals who in turn do not take any notice of the moderates......then we have in the middle East 3 or 4 different Islamic groups fighting amongst themselves like one big happy family who cannot agree who is right and who is wrong so they talk to each other with guns......

So at this stage I guess we have to get our priorities in order to deal with the worst of a bad bunch.

So Macquack, how do you see it all or should we just transfer your post the ASF joke thread?

 

[luutzu]

I think you will find it's new LNP policy to restrain the rights of citizens, because their homework says we equate behavioural boundaries with safety. Law and Order is always the bellwether agenda for political parties, coupled with the far right attitudes of the Libs that means licences to do anything, fines for being impudent and VLAD style legislations.

We aren't the same country we were 40 years ago and we are socially poorer for it, IMO. Back then a man could count on bikini clad girls wandering the city malls, but now we are distracted by burlap wearing, wannabe Bedouin women chattels too ashamed to show themselves for fear of drawing attention to themselves and their possessive husband's ire. And we Anglo/Celtic/Norman/Nordic/Franco/Italiano/Germanic/Greco/Slavic/Russo/Oriental/etc Australians whose ancestors were put through the rigours of the Aussie new migrants assimilation grinder are too polite to make comment in case we make them feel uncomfortable ...FMD !!!

Good writing. Took me a few times to read to understand, but that's just me.

Was out driving my son and on the corner of Haldon St, Lakemba parked a police van. I saw some pamphlets on the table and a young officer was answering questions to a lady, saying hello to a young Muslim man as he went by. I think the cop peaked inside my car as I stopped at the lights in front of him.

While I think that police van is just there as community outreach of some sort, I'm not sure how that looks to young Arab youths, and am pretty sure it could be turn and misinterpreted by people who want to convince and misguide others.

Increased police presence is a sign that the community is not safe - hence they are there to keep us safe. That put people on edge, put officers on edge... and soon, either some accident or misfires happen or people will just be complacent. Both of which will not be good for our safety or our freedom. Imagine getting all these false alarms.. it's just normal that after a while, you start to kind of put down your guard or ignore it.

A quote from Abbott's security speech to Parliament:

Regrettably, for some time to come, the delicate balance between freedom and security may have to shift.

There may be more restrictions on some so that there can be more protections for others.

Creating new offences that are harder to beat on a technicality may be a small price to pay for saving lives and for maintaining the social fabric of an open, free and multicultural nation.

I guess restrictions on "some" mean some other people, not us so it's OK. And I thought the law is all about technicality.

It's a very slippery slope we're on. When is it too early to lock people up without much evidence to charge them?
A Pre-Crime Unit is a good plot line in Minority Report, not very healthy for a free and open society.

How long will "some (body else)" among us will have to take a few restriction and detention without charge for the team? For some time to come? Like this 100 years war on terror?