Has the 100 year Jihad (war) begun ... ???

[Craton]

I like what GG posted starting with:

I have tried not to reply to this thread, but failed, so here goes.

An observation/question as Islam is portrayed so negatively.

We live in a dynamic and ever changing world. I don't think that with the vast accumulation of knowledge and with the social change the world has gone through since the Christian/Islam scriptures were written, that these "bibles" would have the same relevance to us now without some adjustments.

Christianity has accepted this fact and has changed/is changing (E.G. allowing women into the clergy) as acknowledgement that our time is vastly different from the days of the Old and New Testaments.

Thus I ask, has Islam adopted to the ever changing dynamics of the modern, interconnected world or does Islam steadfastly refuse to change with the times?

 

[luutzu]

I like what GG posted starting with:

An observation/question as Islam is portrayed so negatively.

We live in a dynamic and ever changing world. I don't think that with the vast accumulation of knowledge and with the social change the world has gone through since the Christian/Islam scriptures were written, that these "bibles" would have the same relevance to us now without some adjustments.

Christianity has accepted this fact and has changed/is changing (E.G. allowing women into the clergy) as acknowledgement that our time is vastly different from the days of the Old and New Testaments.

Thus I ask, has Islam adopted to the ever changing dynamics of the modern, interconnected world or does Islam steadfastly refuse to change with the times?

Religion, by definition, does not, could not, change with the time - it's the words of God, and unless God comes back to Earth and tell another Prophet or Christ returns and said otherwise, it is as written.

What could change is the attitudes of its practitioners/followers. Most are selective in what they get out of the religion. Some kinda ignore the "help the poor", "it is easier for a camel to walk through the eye of the needle than for a money changer to enter the kingdom of heaven" [?]... and some use it to unite their soldiers and wage Jihad and Crusades.

If you use the same measure as most does nowadays and see Islam as violent because of the terrorists - waging war, hating women and what not... use that measure on Christianity or any religion, and you'll see how insane all religion is, how violent and repressive all of them are, still is.

I mean, the English-speaking people are not just English from England now right? It's the world language pretty much. English and Spanish being spoken in places that are not England or Spain... that didn't happen because the natives find these two language pleasing and superior to theirs.

We don't go to the ME to spend blood and trillions building a democracy there do we? A lot of towns and cities could do with a couple billions or trillions. I could do with a couple million that costs each tomahawk missile.

If we think it's tough right now in Australia, what with having to call in the bomb squad and putting terminals in lock down because some guy forgot his bag or too busy with an iPad... imagine living in one of the Arab countries and seeing terrorists (and some civilians) being blown up from the sky every now and then. You'd probably think differently about Western democracy and enlightened Christian values.

----
In our Western democracies... Women didn't get to vote until some 80 or 100 years ago. Before that they were, literally, the property of their father or their husband.

So all these talk of Christianity being enlightened now, more progressive... it's all rubbish fed and believe by Christians. All the advances and liberties in Christian societies are so because it manages to separate Church from State. Even with that separation, "the gays" still have problems being seen as equal citizens with equal rights.


Don't know, we ought to be a bit nervous with deciders who actually believe in some invisible God... whether they call that dude God or Allah or Yahweh.

 

[luutzu]

John Oliver on Drone Strikes - We've turned clear blue skies into a terrifying, imminent death from above.

Towards the end, there's this 13 year old Pakistani kid whose grandmother was killed in a strike said he prefer dark cloudy skies, that during such time, he can be at ease for a while because he know drones can't fly or see in that weather - I think he's probably wrong about that soon.

 

[Craton]

Religion, by definition, does not, could not, change with the time - it's the words of God, and unless God comes back to Earth and tell another Prophet or Christ returns and said otherwise, it is as written.

Thanks for the reply luutzu.
Of course, how could I forget the term, "...it is written".

What could change is the attitudes of its practitioners/followers. Most are selective in what they get out of the religion. Some kinda ignore the "help the poor", "it is easier for a camel to walk through the eye of the needle than for a money changer to enter the kingdom of heaven" [?]... and some use it to unite their soldiers and wage Jihad and Crusades.

If you use the same measure as most does nowadays and see Islam as violent because of the terrorists - waging war, hating women and what not... use that measure on Christianity or any religion, and you'll see how insane all religion is, how violent and repressive all of them are, still is.

I mean, the English-speaking people are not just English from England now right? It's the world language pretty much. English and Spanish being spoken in places that are not England or Spain... that didn't happen because the natives find these two language pleasing and superior to theirs.

Yeah, a lot of wrong has been and is still being done in the name of religion. I was thinking that the Buddhists weren't included but then remembered the Tibetan monks and the Chinese. I also cringe at what the West has done when I look down the annals of history. From the Crusades, the New World to our very own indigenous tribes.

Just an aside. I thought it was a toss up between English and French as the world language?

We don't go to the ME to spend blood and trillions building a democracy there do we? A lot of towns and cities could do with a couple billions or trillions. I could do with a couple million that costs each tomahawk missile.

Ditto

If we think it's tough right now in Australia, what with having to call in the bomb squad and putting terminals in lock down because some guy forgot his bag or too busy with an iPad... imagine living in one of the Arab countries and seeing terrorists (and some civilians) being blown up from the sky every now and then. You'd probably think differently about Western democracy and enlightened Christian values.

Both sides very much likes the us and them attitude, propagated and nurtured.

----
In our Western democracies... Women didn't get to vote until some 80 or 100 years ago. Before that they were, literally, the property of their father or their husband.

So all these talk of Christianity being enlightened now, more progressive... it's all rubbish fed and believe by Christians. All the advances and liberties in Christian societies are so because it manages to separate Church from State. Even with that separation, "the gays" still have problems being seen as equal citizens with equal rights.

Christianity being enlightened?
Not until the Pope allows access to the archives in the Vatican!

Now don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think we of the West are perfect but at least with the separation of Church from State and over time, came the freedoms we have and to express our views which are allowed to exist without fear of a beheading.

Don't know, we ought to be a bit nervous with deciders who actually believe in some invisible God... whether they call that dude God or Allah or Yahweh.

To me, the idea of an invisible God seems too far removed from the world of today compared to yesteryear. Religion means little to me as I rebelled against my Catholic upbringing a long time ago however, because of these brain washed morons, religion still impacts on me like the god bothers that knock on my door. Worse, the fanatical extremists of Islam.

So there lies the issue, the clash of religion against people, not people against people. Although, more and more it's drones against people. That being so, there will never be peace!

 

[Value Collector]

Religion, by definition, does not, could not, change with the time - it's the words of God, and unless God comes back to Earth and tell another Prophet or Christ returns and said otherwise, it is as written

Even a new prophet wouldn't change religion, it would just cause a new religion to spring up.

Eg, Jesus coming didn't change the Jewish, Muhammad coming didn't change the Catholics, and Josesh smith didn't change the muslims, catholics or jews.

prophets are always around, the current religions just reject them, then they start a new splinter group, hence the 10's of thousands of religions.

 

[bellenuit]

Schoolgirl jihadis: the female Islamists leaving home to join Isis fighters

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-islamists-leaving-home-join-isis-iraq-syria

 

[Value Collector]

John Oliver on Drone Strikes - We've turned clear blue skies into a terrifying, imminent death from above.

Towards the end, there's this 13 year old Pakistani kid whose grandmother was killed in a strike said he prefer dark cloudy skies, that during such time, he can be at ease for a while because he know drones can't fly or see in that weather - I think he's probably wrong about that soon.

Why would you have to know the name of the person before you authorise a drone strike, they get hung up the "they don't know who it was" statement, you don't need to stop and check someones ID, finger prints and next of kin to recognise them as a combatant.

 

[luutzu]

Why would you have to know the name of the person before you authorise a drone strike, they get hung up the "they don't know who it was" statement, you don't need to stop and check someones ID, finger prints and next of kin to recognise them as a combatant.

I always assume that drone strikes are only use when we have intel on the ground, that the intel calls up and say start your drones, the bad guy is there and in that car and good to kill.

For all I know that's how drone strikes are carried out. But from Oliver's take, doesn't sound like that's how it is.
That drones are flown 24/7 and we see what look suspicious and guess that that's the bad guy/s and kill.

There's a recent article from a former Drone pilot/controller - from Salon.com, directed from HuffingtonPost. Not sure of its authenticity since the author is anonymous, but he claims that his team of 100 drone pilots, based in the US, flew these drones 24/7, in 12 hour shifts and on some days, see nothing and some day see devastating damages and death.

That 10 of his teammates have been caught drink driving, two committed suicide, and marital and family issues... the pressure to decide life and death from a black/white, grainy monitor screen... it can't be easy on the conscience.

 

[luutzu]

prophets are always around, the current religions just reject them, then they start a new splinter group, hence the 10's of thousands of religions.

True. Stand corrected.

New prophets tend to rise from its critics, from those who know too much about too many religion and thought they could do one better

One might even stop collecting under valued stocks and start collecting lost souls. haha

There's Lincoln who made speeches pointing out the flaws and insanity in the Bible in his younger years, then when running for politics and his opponent made too much of an issue of him being Godless... change his tune and became America's most religious president.

 

[luutzu]

Thanks for the reply luutzu.
Of course, how could I forget the term, "...it is written".



Yeah, a lot of wrong has been and is still being done in the name of religion. I was thinking that the Buddhists weren't included but then remembered the Tibetan monks and the Chinese. I also cringe at what the West has done when I look down the annals of history. From the Crusades, the New World to our very own indigenous tribes.

Just an aside. I thought it was a toss up between English and French as the world language?



Ditto


Both sides very much likes the us and them attitude, propagated and nurtured.



Christianity being enlightened?
Not until the Pope allows access to the archives in the Vatican!

Now don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think we of the West are perfect but at least with the separation of Church from State and over time, came the freedoms we have and to express our views which are allowed to exist without fear of a beheading.


To me, the idea of an invisible God seems too far removed from the world of today compared to yesteryear. Religion means little to me as I rebelled against my Catholic upbringing a long time ago however, because of these brain washed morons, religion still impacts on me like the god bothers that knock on my door. Worse, the fanatical extremists of Islam.

So there lies the issue, the clash of religion against people, not people against people. Although, more and more it's drones against people. That being so, there will never be peace!

I think for most people who follow it, religion is a positive thing. But yea, problem with being religious is at some point, some in power will abuse it and take you and your country to war over it, or make decisions that god might like but the modern world shouldn't.

You've raised interesting points... Will try to discuss it when I can think straight.

 

[Value Collector]

I always assume that drone strikes are only use when we have intel on the ground, that the intel calls up and say start your drones, the bad guy is there and in that car and good to kill.

For all I know that's how drone strikes are carried out. But from Oliver's take, doesn't sound like that's how it is.
That drones are flown 24/7 and we see what look suspicious and guess that that's the bad guy/s and kill.

There's a recent article from a former Drone pilot/controller - from Salon.com, directed from HuffingtonPost. Not sure of its authenticity since the author is anonymous, but he claims that his team of 100 drone pilots, based in the US, flew these drones 24/7, in 12 hour shifts and on some days, see nothing and some day see devastating damages and death.

.

Drones are used for all sorts of missions, it's amazing at the number of applications they have in the modern theatre of operations, troops on the ground can request drone support to take a fly over video of a route they have to patrol prior to the mission, so they have an idea of the routes vuneralable points etc and can plan for them.

Drones can conduct routine patrols along main transport routes looking for people planting road side bombs, or laying in ambush etc,

Take aerial photogaraphy of villages and compounds prior to our troops raiding or patroling through.

Troops can request drone support during a contact, so drones can be an eye in the sky providing information about enemy and civilians movements that the troops on the ground can't see.

If needed the drones can provide information and limited fire support into contacts when helicopter support is unavailable.

Drones are also used in all sorts of special operations and surveilance missions. but just like a helicopter, they will be opportunistic and attack targets that present them selves.

eg, If an armed drone is tasked to make a video of a route fly over for an upcoming patrol and happens to catch some one laying a roadside bomb they will probably attack them.

That 10 of his teammates have been caught drink driving, two committed suicide, and marital and family issues... the pressure to decide life and death from a black/white, grainy monitor screen... it can't be easy on the conscience

Yes, it could be a very high pressure job sometimes, and you don't have to be on the ground to suffer PTSD. PTSD is a fact of life for all sorts of groups involved in high pressure situations, whether they be troops on the ground or helicoter and drone pilots and crews.

 

[SirRumpole]

Drones are used for all sorts of missions, it's amazing at the number of applications they have in the modern theatre of operations,

Indeed yes, they provide a lot of video at football matches.

A few of them to take out some Hawthorn players last week would have been good.

 

[dutchie]

A few of them to take out some Hawthorn players last week would have been good.

LOL

 

[Calliope]

Then there are the Greens. Adam Bandt just couldn’t help himself in Canberra yesterday as raids occurred in his electorate. He simultaneously demanded a briefing and rushed to offer a diagnosis of the problem and blame the government ”” even while police were still at locations collecting evidence. Mr Bandt referred to high unemployment and cuts to programs, suggesting we ask why people were “feeling disengaged and disconnected” from society. “I’m very, very worried that, at a rate of knots under this government, we’re going in the opposite direction and that is only going to fuel division and disaffection

,
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...tremists-funding/story-e6frg71x-1227075757887

 

[luutzu]

Drones are used for all sorts of missions, it's amazing at the number of applications they have in the modern theatre of operations, troops on the ground can request drone support to take a fly over video of a route they have to patrol prior to the mission, so they have an idea of the routes vuneralable points etc and can plan for them.

Drones can conduct routine patrols along main transport routes looking for people planting road side bombs, or laying in ambush etc,

Take aerial photogaraphy of villages and compounds prior to our troops raiding or patroling through.

Troops can request drone support during a contact, so drones can be an eye in the sky providing information about enemy and civilians movements that the troops on the ground can't see.

If needed the drones can provide information and limited fire support into contacts when helicopter support is unavailable.

Drones are also used in all sorts of special operations and surveilance missions. but just like a helicopter, they will be opportunistic and attack targets that present them selves.

eg, If an armed drone is tasked to make a video of a route fly over for an upcoming patrol and happens to catch some one laying a roadside bomb they will probably attack them.



Yes, it could be a very high pressure job sometimes, and you don't have to be on the ground to suffer PTSD. PTSD is a fact of life for all sorts of groups involved in high pressure situations, whether they be troops on the ground or helicoter and drone pilots and crews.

Oh yea, I've heard of various types and sizes of drones, for various purposes. Was referring to those Predator Drones, those attack ones carrying Hellfire missiles or something.

I thought those were mission specific whereas the surveillance ones are 24/7. But that might not be the case... where Predator Drones are also 24/7.

Whatever is the case, to the people in those countries, it's all the same. That we, the West, does not respect their sovereign borders and wages war on them at will, war that in most cases hasn't been declared on their country at all.

Reminds me of that scene in "Dr Strangelove" where the US fly a dozen or so B52s around and above the USSR, carrying nukes and will unload whenever the order came.

While the current drone programme is not Mutually Assured Destruction, it's still pretty insane to me. A few foreign policy experts I've watched said drones are the most effective terrorist-creating machine ever used by the US. The idea that we are able to watch, follow and kill any enemy, anywhere, in any country (besides the big guys)... that might sound like a good idea, probably up there with the ultimates in power projection... but I don't know.

It might be better that if we have to offend a country's sovereignty, their airspace and kill bad guys on their territories... drone strikes is not exactly a surgical, silent way to do bad things to bad people (and a few collateral damages) - for good reasons or otherwise, disrepecting people's armed forces and security forces... maybe do it for big targets like bin Laden, or to prevent clear and present danger. Do otherwise might not be effective, and we can forget about morality or international law.

 

[DB008]

Islamic State beheads British aid worker Alan Henning in new video

AN internet video released on Friday purports to show an Islamic State fanatic beheading British hostage Alan Henning and threatening yet another American captive, the fourth such killing carried out by the extremist group now targeted in US-led air strikes.

The video mirrored other beheading videos shot by the Islamic State group, which now holds territory along the border of Syria and Iraq. It ended with an Islamic State fighter threatening a man they identified as an American, Peter Kassig, who, like Henning, was a volunteer in an aid convoy.

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/islamic-state-beheads-british-aid-worker-alan-henning-in-new-video/story-fnh81ifq-1227079715916

 

[noco]

I could not stop listening to Brigitte Gabriel about radical Islam in Lebanon who is now an American citizen.

She it explains so well what is happening in the Western World and I sure hope the Americans sit up and take notice before it is too late.

She talks about the infiltration of the Western World and how the children in America are being brain washed particularly in the universities.

She talks about how the Muslims have dominated the Christians in Lebanon.

This is a must listen from beginning to end.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo&noredirect=1

And this is what they are saying about Obama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VC4ea24_mQ

 

[noco]

Where is Ed Kusek during the past weeks with all this Islamic radical disturbance?

Ed Kusek the Muslim LABOR MP who took his oath on the Koran when he was sworn into parliament.

Ed Kusek is very conspicuous by his absence......not one word of criticism on his Muslim radical brotherhood.

 

[DB008]

I could not stop listening to Brigitte Gabriel about radical Islam in Lebanon who is now an American citizen.

She it explains so well what is happening in the Western World and I sure hope the Americans sit up and take notice before it is too late.

She talks about the infiltration of the Western World and how the children in America are being brain washed particularly in the universities.

She talks about how the Muslims have dominated the Christians in Lebanon.

This is a must listen from beginning to end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo&noredirect=1

Brigitte Gabriel - Put her on Q & A.....

 

[DB008]

Front Page "The Independent" - UK