GTP - Great Southern Plantations

[Forenth]

I wonder if any directors / management sold any shares in the last few weeks. Rhodes etc took their 'performance rights' share options not long ago, 2 ½ million shares for $0.00. Do they still hold them now when they're becoming absolutely worthless? Based on 'performance' they should be made to pay into the company... negative growth should mean negative 'performance rights'.

If GTP are going under then have they left just enough cash in the kitty to pay themselves out? Their contracts say they're entitled to 12 months pay if they leave the company.

Also, now is the time for investors who haven't yet been fleeced of their investments to look for a new RE and to resist all attempts to extinguish the leases so the land can be dumped. Anyone out there with some industry exposure? Maybe for projects close to harvest a new RE steps into GTP's role and gets their return without the years of waiting, Gunn's or someone. As for more recent projects a RE would be taking on a longer term commitment.

Suggestions?

 

[Jonnyjunkfood]

I think common sense finally prevails. MIS schemes have been locking up prime agricultural land with forrestry products (an industry which is already struggling with low prices) at the expense of food production. These guys were ruining rural australia. Now we can return to genuine agribusiness.

 

[pist'n broke]

This ought to teach a big lesson to those fools who voted 'Yes' to sell their Cattle for worthless shares, and to those who accepted Individual Offers to switch their investments for shares in the company.

KPMG considered this a 'fair and reasonable' deal!
Who were the real fools? The largely financially naive investors (like me) or the well paid financial advisers and 'independent' experts?
No points for guessing who's going to be screwed.:swear:

 

[moreld]

Nothing new to add just providing a link to a few of my thoughts.
Great Southern calls in administrators
As a GTPGA and GTPGB holder I will be attending the first creditors meeting.

Finally! I've been saying for a while that GTP is a POS going to zero. For years I've been warning friends not to invest in MIS and yet I stupidly invested in GTP's debt, GTPGA and GTPGB (TREES2 and TREES3). Stupid, stupid, stupid. I knew it was a bad business, arguably a complete scam and certainly it had all the hallmarks of a Ponzi scheme and yet I thought I'd get my money back. What an idiot. Lesson learnt, **** stinks and sticks to everything you can't step in it and end up smelling like roses.

 

[Belrose]

I think common sense finally prevails. MIS schemes have been locking up prime agricultural land with forrestry products (an industry which is already struggling with low prices) at the expense of food production. These guys were ruining rural australia. Now we can return to genuine agribusiness.

I agree that GTP overpaying for agricultural land didn't do the small communities where it was held much good, but I do think that planting trees and rehabilitating exhausted farm land was a much better solution than pouring more and more petrochemical fertilisers on it to try and make it go just one more harvest. I think "ruining rural australia" might be overstating the facts just a tiny bit. Rehabilitating the earth and ensuring that there is one to support all these people to grow food for is surely of some importance?

Honestly, very few people in Australia are starving - in fact 68% of adult men and 55% of adult women are overweight or obese according to the National Health Survey of 2007-08. I am sure that the numbers are even worse currently as this has been an escalating trend for quite some time.

I'll just sit back now and wait for all the antagonists to this view to flame me. Sigh.

Well that's my 2 cents worth anyway.

 

[The_Bman]

Look on the bright side, at least the plot owners will have a few hundred thousand carbon credits!

I am a plot owner

 

[Johnathon123]

Like I said before it's going to be one hell of a ride

With 20/20 hindsight you have to wonder why anyone would invest in this - it is amazing when you look at the numbers just how many people did (including me)

Do you think as investors we have any chance to recoup the investment

Even is better than nothing

 

[The_Bman]

It was a win win for me at the time. I could defer my tax and instead of the taxman taking my money I could replace my car.

Now we'll need some tax advice, not sure if this could be classed as a capital loss.

 

[mikes]

if the insurance premiums are paid up, a bush fire might save tree investors

still hoping that (my debt investments) gtpga and gtpgb might get a couple of cents in the dollar.

 

[Fatcat]

Anyone heard from their financial adviser in recent days? Mine hasn't responded to email queries. Suspect he is sunning in the Carribean on the back of the fat commissions.
Still umming and arring whether to sack the little grub.

 

[bv2726]

Anyone heard from their financial adviser in recent days? Mine hasn't responded to email queries. Suspect he is sunning in the Carribean on the back of the fat commissions.
Still umming and arring whether to sack the little grub.

After what I have been advised to do by my financial advisor(s) over the years...I reckon I am quite capable of stuffing up my own finances entirely on my own, without paying anyone any commisions to help me along.

In other words...I am through with any financial adviser. I can do better alone.

 

[jiml]

A piece in the 'West today indicated commissions to the carpet baggers (read finanacial advisers) was something like $62M last year. It would suggest that once they had creamed off 10% it was 10% less to be invested. It was also obvious that once the sector extended into avacados, olives, grapes cattle etc, the govt would close the tax loophole flood gates on the basis of a) lost revenue and b) a distortion of the agricultural sector which was clearly have a negative impact on dejure famers rather than those more intersested in tax minimisation. Clearly competion between the major players in the sector GTP, Timbercorp Gunns etc pushed up the price of land thus increasing costs. It would appear the business plan relied upon continued investment until at least midaway through the second cycle and possibly the end of that cycle. Basically relying upon a wing and a prayer rather than prudent financial management and conservative forecasting. While the current financial situation has been less than helpful, GTP was in serious trouble early in 2008 (and perhaps earlier). it will intersting to read the views of the receivers once they had a thorough look at the books and the business plan. My guess is the real losers will be the shareholders...It seeems unlikely there will be a return to the secort by investors (once caught twice shy) and the fact that tax paid money inthe bank is a safer bet than tax deferred for 10 years. I suppose the questiion at the moment is will the value of assets meet the loan book?

 

[drsmith]

As much as I thought Great Southern would ultimately go under I am a little suprised it happened this quick.

It's only been a few months since it got it's paws on the cattle and some of the forestry scheme assets.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Isn't it really interesting.....

The current theory seems to be that you can throw up practically any money making story and if it is successful in conning enough people, it's success saves it from robust scrutiny.

In effect the marketplace is rewarding the the best and greediest sociopaths.

Yep. But the market is now wearing the cost of not doing it's own research. And guess what...the same thing happens every day of the week.

Do not invest in something unless you a) understand it or b) can afford to lose what you are gambling.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Sorry, I have to ask where Investor1 is hiding...??? Gone very quiet since arguing the merit of swapping trees/cows for shares...how did that logic go again?

 

[wooduk]

A Senate inquiry into forestry and mining operation on Tiwi Islands has started this afternoon in Darwin.

Aussie Rules great Maurice Rioli is a traditional owner now living on Melville Island.

MAURICE RIOLI: Most TIs would say is it worth it, considering land use payments for the land? Lease payments for the land are a lot lower than mainland plantations in other parts of Australia where a hectare block would be for, you know, can be leased for up to $100 a hectare, I understand in some place $50 per hectare.

Here I understand it started off at $16 per hectare. I question, like many others, is it all worth it for what they've done to the land?

WELL,WELL how about that on the LEASE PAYMENTS!!!!!!

sourced from ABC Online

 

[pist'n broke]

A piece in the 'West today indicated commissions to the carpet baggers (read finanacial advisers) was something like $62M last year. It would suggest that once they had creamed off 10% it was 10% less to be invested. earlier).

Well, I asked our FA outright.
Seems commissions on woodlots were 5.5% up to 2005/06 project, 11% for later projects.
Does that suggest that (at least from 2006/07) he should have been highly suspicious?
No wonder our FA always had that gleam in his eyes when we signed on the line. Bloody good rate of pay.
The same guy declined to give any advice on 'Project Transform', apart from supporting the KPMG line. We voted NO, because it seemed an obvious ripoff.

The FA 'industry' should accept a fair share of the flying fecal matter. The tax dodging investors were not the only greedy fools.

I'd suggest a re-count of the cattle project votes. Or have the paper shredders been to busy the last 2 weeks?
NOT happy! Maybe a tiny bit wiser though.

 

[The Shadow]

Dennis & Co Class Action - Business Spectator 19th May 2009

Lets hope the deal is reversed and justice prevails!!

 

[SDE]

I wonder if Project Transform can be reversed as it was a transaction that occurred within 6 months of the company going into administration (and likely liquidation)

 

[slim pickins]

I hate saying I told you so......... but i did!

to all those who voted yes to this share fiasco.... you've had warnings of the coming demise on this forum. too bad.

my only regret is that they went under so quickly and have not had to face the numerous lawsuits comign their way.

MIS investors, i would not panic just yet. the management rights will be sold to someone by the administrators. alternatively, teh trees will be chopped down and sold for money.... money that will be distributed to us.

anyone who thinks otherwise... well as fas as i know you cant just take the trees that are not yours... if you do its called theft.. and the trees are insured against theft. so stolen trees = insurenace payout.

also.... an apocalyptic fire sweeping across australia destroying all before it... that would help as well as the trees are insured against fire.

Investor 1....... where are you... how is your share portfolio doing.... let me guess you never had any shares in GTP or if you did... you got out just in time.... heheheheheheh.

please do you have any more buy reccomendations.... i'll short every one of them