Gouged at the pump

I don't know what the price of fuel is at your place but where I'm at,just south of Perth it is $1.15 @ litre. Now that might sound an alright price compared to the $1.60 it has been in the past, but if you take into account that the barrel price it was then ($140) and the barrel price at the moment ($42), Something doesn't add up. Anyone else feel shafted or is it just me?

nick2fish said:

I don't know what the price of fuel is at your place but where I'm at,just south of Perth it is $1.15 @ litre. Now that might sound an alright price compared to the $1.60 it has been in the past, but if you take into account that the barrel price it was then ($140) and the barrel price at the moment ($42), Something doesn't add up. Anyone else feel shafted or is it just me?

Click to expand...

I filled up a week or two ago at 1.02, but when in Bundaberg (Qld) earlier today I thought I saw some 1.16's on the signs.

I did hear something about Singapore cutting production to maintain profit... not quite sure how that affects us, except that the oil companies have previously said our local price is related to the Singapore price.

Earlier we had higher than expected because of a refinery breakdown in Brisbane.

Needs to be kept a close watch on.

Hi everyone who feel shafted or unfairly primed at the pump!

I am an OZ PR living in Perth and I was from Singapore.
The truth is - currently, Singaporean drivers are paying SGD$1.50 plus average at the pump in Singapore.

While this may not make you and I feel any better at being ripped off by the oil company, AUD$1.00 ish is certainly better than SGD$1.5 ish.

having said that, oil companies learn too from the stock market that good things go down slowly and bad things go up like a lift!

So, while we did enjoy a relatively brief period of 90 plus AUD cents per liter at the pump, it wasn't loooooooooooooooong lasting!

Hmm, we're ripped off again.............as always...................
Perhaps we should buy more oil and gas shares??????????
sigh...........agathos.

agathos said:

Hi everyone who feel shafted or unfairly primed at the pump!

I am an OZ PR living in Perth and I was from Singapore.
The truth is - currently, Singaporean drivers are paying SGD$1.50 plus average at the pump in Singapore.

While this may not make you and I feel any better at being ripped off by the oil company, AUD$1.00 ish is certainly better than SGD$1.5 ish.

having said that, oil companies learn too from the stock market that good things go down slowly and bad things go up like a lift!

So, while we did enjoy a relatively brief period of 90 plus AUD cents per liter at the pump, it wasn't loooooooooooooooong lasting!

Hmm, we're ripped off again.............as always...................
Perhaps we should buy more oil and gas shares??????????
sigh...........agathos.

Click to expand...

Hi Agathos

I heard from a friend it is really expensive to drive a car in Singapore. Not just due to the fuel price! Is car rego or obtaining a drivers licence really expensive in Singapore?

124.5 cents at my local Caltex in Adelaide... it is a bit steep huh?

im on LPG... costing me 6.3c/km (compared to about 14c/km on ULP)

Yep......My worry is that when oil barrel prices resume their upward trend what is going to be the effect on pump prices then?

Like if oil is $42 a barrel as it is today and you are buying it at 124c ltr and then if oil doubles to $84 a barrel will we then be paying 248c ltr ?

Fuel watch ... what a joke
I honestly wouldn't mind if the barrel price was relative but my oil stocks are down and I'm/We are getting stung at the pumps

nick2fish said:

Yep......My worry is that when oil barrel prices resume their upward trend what is going to be the effect on pump prices then?

Click to expand...

The trend for oil and there petrol/diesel will only ever be up, we're running out of the stuff. Grab a motorbike, or pushbike and have a small car as a backup if frugality is important and public transport is not an option.

Petition your minister to invest in electric car technologies and large renewable electricity plants (massive solar power stations, and for gods sake, kick hot rock along ! with a nation wide DC backbone for transport) as the only long term solution (as in the need to start now) Here's an idea, if they had a spare $10Billion they could start us down the road... oh wait, they pissed that up against the wall recently didn't they

We get ripped off all the time and the pathetic morons who "run" this country just smile, have a discussion and do nothing.

The oil companies have very persuasive people to deal with our half wit pollies and they get away with murder.

The price should be controlled, if the petrol companies wont do it the Govt should.

Agree totally, 10c either side of the Singapore Tapis price would be fine.
While the refineries are ripping of consumers inflationary pressures remain and the reserve bank policies can't be as aggressive as they should be

The accusations about oil companies "ripping people off", "making excessive profits" etc have been around for years and always accompanied by one other significant factor - a total lack of evidence.

The fact that the ACCC has conducted numerous enquiries and found nothing doesn't seem to convince the conspiracy theorists who, of course, believe that, therefore, the ACCC must somehow be "in on it".

Why don't we consider some real facts.

There are numerous measures of company financial success, but I think that, in this instance, a fair measure is return on capital employed (ROCE) - or the amount of money made as a proportion of the amount invested in the business.

First of all, let's get a bit of scale. For us investors, a comparable ROCE would be the return we would expect from our investments as a proportion of the amount invested. If we were to invest, say, $1million, a return of 8% in a year might seem satisfactory (but hardly earth shattering). How about if we invested $1billion? Obviously with more money working for us we might anticipate a bit of a better return. How about 12%? 14%?

Now, let's look at BP's annual report for 2007.

Net profit for the year is stated as US$21.2billion. Wow! that sure is a huge amount.

But let's look at how much capital BP employed in order to get that return.

Fixed assets were US$140.2billion and working capital of US$1.8billion, giving a capital employed of US$142billion.

A profit of US$21.2billion gives a return on capital employed of 14.9%.

Now, this is a nice return, but hardly "raking it in" territory. The problem is that people focus in on the rather large US$21bn profit without realising that it has taken an absolutely huge capital investment to get that return.

On the retail (pump) front, margins are typically very slim. Why do you think independents are going out of business left, right and centre? It's because, even at a service centre level. the required investment is large (safety, regulations etc) and the pickings (margin on pump price) is small.

It might be nice to think we are being ripped off as this, somehow, justifies our right to whinge that prices are high. But, in reality, it just isn't the case. We should be asking the government to stop wasting taxpayers money on more enquiries, or ridiculously ineffective schemes like Fuelwatch, and concentrate on other industries where there may be a problem.

Im theorising that the Government cant afford to lose any fuel "revenue" so will now turn a blind eye as it tumbles into the abyss.

Thanks Gilbo, You make some good points. I totally agree on the companies right to make a fair return on investments. But my point is that if barrel prices double (as they will surely do) doses that mean that the price per litre will as well. Exchange rates aside (minus 10 or so %) double would mean 248c ltr at $84. If it went to say $168 a barrel that on todays profit pricing would mean we would be paying a massive 500c a litre.

So when oil is cheap the consumer only benefits by a slightly reduced price but when expensive the oil companies reduce profit slightly but still ensure we get stung.
Are not All petrol companies also oil producers (independents excepted) so are making good profits on high oil prices.
Yet most oil producers are not petroleum sellers
I just can't believe they get away with it

And Numbercruncher you are 100% totally correct...again

A doubling in the price of oil does not translate to a doubling in the price of petrol there are other components that go into the pump price which are not directly related to the oil price.

A significant one is the federal excise which is levied at a fixed rate.

This morning in Sydney ulp is $1.28 per litre at the woolworths/caltex outlet. The barrel price of crude oil is approx US$42.00 and the Aussie dollar is approx US$0.65. Last week ULP was arround $0.92 per litre and the Barrell price of Oil and the Aussie dollar were pretty much on par with what they are today.

The Oil Company/Woolworths outlets bumped the price of ulp up for the Aussie Day long week end, held the price up on Tuesday/Wednesday at $1.06per litre then banged it up to $1.28 today. This takes profiteering to new levels of extortion. Currently the Govt component is fixed where it used to be a %. in the old days as the fuel price went up so did the Government income. However, when prices went up last time the government agreed to cap it's charges.

The real test as to how much we are currently being ripped off would be to run three graphs on the same sheet, comparing: the price of oil since the start of the Iraqi invasion; the value of the aussie dollar versus the US$ for the same period; and the price of ulp for the same period. Then we would be able to show conclusively if the price formula has been fiddled with, where the cost per litre of ulp went from below $0.60 per litre to over $1.60 per litre but never managed to fall much below $1.00 per litre when the price of oil tumbled.

Another sneaky rip of that caltex/woolworths are doing is the price of 98ron fuel. There was a standard 10c premium on this fuel against ulp for years. Late last year caltex/woolworths increased the premium to 11c and at the start of January 09 they increased the premium to 13c. So much for the big companies looking after the little people in tough economic times. When I complained at the petrol station, the staff responded that there was nothing they could do and then they said, "the price of ulp should only be arround $0.65 anyway".

Hi, Nulla Nulla nice post and answers a few questions...but asks more...
Cheers

nick2fish said:

I don't know what the price of fuel is at your place but where I'm at,just south of Perth it is $1.15 @ litre. Now that might sound an alright price compared to the $1.60 it has been in the past, but if you take into account that the barrel price it was then ($140) and the barrel price at the moment ($42), Something doesn't add up. Anyone else feel shafted or is it just me?

Click to expand...

I get what your saying, Your saying that because the oil price has dropped 66% the price of fuel at the bowser should drop 66%, this simple expectation is flawed.

Firstly the Aussie dollar has slumped, so it now takes more aussie dollars to by the same amount of US$ it did 6 months ago, and since oil is traded in US$ a big chunk of the oil price slump wont flow through.

Secondly the cost of refining a barrel of oil is largly a fixed cost, for example lets say it costs $10 to get a barrel of oil from the feild to the pumped ( transport, wages, taxes, insurance, plant and equipment etc etc),...

so if oil was $150 a barrel the minimum mark up to break even is less than 7%

But if oil is $50 a barrel it will still cost $10 to refine it ( because all the other costs remain the same) so the minimum mark up would be 20%.

Plus refiners are refining less fuel (hence the oil price drop) so if they are refining and selling less litres then the cost per barrel might even increase to $12 meaning an even larger break even mark up.

this also applies to retailers of fuel @ $1.60/litre they may be making 5cents per litre and @ $1/litre they will probally still be making 5cents per litre, so that the actual percentage markup increase as the price drops but the $value remains the same.

Also I don't know how taxes on fuel work, but if it is a set amount of say 30cents per litre it has the same effect.

Electric cars are just around the corner ... we can soon break free from these little extortionists ....

My local BP I drive past most days on the way to the local Independent servo has shot up from 106.9c to 126.9c in a few days.

Independent was selling 10% Etho blend at 114.9c

SupaKRudd's price watchdogs are obviously toothless ragdolls.

This pretty well sums it eh...

Shell announces record £22BILLION profit... as drivers wait for plummeting oil price to show at the pumps

By Ray Massey
Last updated at 12:20 AM on 30th January 2009

Oil giant Shell was accused of unprecedented 'greed' today as it announced record annual profits of £22billion - the biggest in UK and European corporate history.

Shell's profits gushed at the astonishing rate of £700 a second, £42,000 a minute, £2.5m an hour, or £60million a day last year as oil prices peaked at a record $147 a barrel in July before falling back to $41 today.

But as Britain's motorists endured fresh price rises at the pumps, Shell bosses judged their record results were merely 'satisfactory.'

Shell's profits bonanza sparked renewed demands for a windfall tax on the oil companies who have been under fire for 'dragging their feet' and failing to slash prices at the pumps when oil prices subsequently plummeted.

Today motoring groups pointed out that pump prices were rising again by up to 2p a litre to £1 a litre.

The AA pointed out that Shell's profits were almost equal to the amount the Government takes off motorists each year in fuel duty.

Shell said its profits for the final three months of 2008 were down 28 per cent to 'just' £3.34billion as the economy and oil prices plummeted.

But that garnered little sympathy from angry unions or Britain's 33 million motorists suffering the worst economic downturn for a lifetime - with the prospect of yet more misery to come.

Fuel companies must be pissing themselves laughing.

"Hey fellas if you feel like a laugh we've got Wayne Swan on tape telling us the keep our prices down"

Same scene at the banks.