Global Warming - How Valid and Serious?

[spooly74]

...plus your evidence is skewed as the best temperature recording system in the world is in the US and many of those stations have been moved to different location, are situated near hot ashphalt, are to low to the ground or funnily enough situated next to air conditioners.

have you got a link to verify this info ... cheers

 

[numbercruncher]

have you got a link to verify this info ... cheers

lol my thoughts exactly, and do these Brillant American "scientists" place these devices all over the world? and do they always hunt out places on asphalt beside airconditioners to gather this data for the "agenda" ?

 

[numbercruncher]

Anyway once Dubbya gets ousted from his Ivory tower im almost sure our American cousins will come fight the good fight, and as for China it will be comply or face "climate" tariffs on your "stuff".

Actually i think the world is nearly big enough,powerful enough and united enough on this issue to now force both these guys if needed, tax them into submission

 

[white_goodman]

have you got a link to verify this info ... cheers

have a look at the youtube i posted 2 or so pages back it was in 4 parts...

also how mnay world animal species do you think have become extinct since the 1970's due to global warming???

 

[spooly74]

have a look at the youtube i posted 2 or so pages back it was in 4 parts...

Will do !

also how mnay world animal species do you think have become extinct since the 1970's due to global warming???

Couldnt give a rats!
99% of all species that lived on this planet have become extinct. I`m only worried about mankind in the GW debate.

 

[white_goodman]

Will do !

Couldnt give a rats!
99% of all species that lived on this planet have become extinct. I`m only worried about mankind in the GW debate.

well it would surprise you that 1000's were predicted to be extinct but since 1970 only 7 species have become extinct.....take that global warming alarmists

 

[chops_a_must]

well it would surprise you that 1000's were predicted to be extinct but since 1970 only 7 species have become extinct.....take that global warming alarmists

You do realise there is a big time lag for declaring animals extinct don't you?

 

[2020hindsight]

Anyway once Dubbya gets ousted from his Ivory tower im almost sure our American cousins will come fight the good fight, and as for China it will be comply or face "climate" tariffs on your "stuff".

Actually i think the world is nearly big enough,powerful enough and united enough on this issue to now force both these guys if needed, tax them into submission

nc, agreed

I love the way Australia is doing it now,
and USA will no doubt do it when they are finally dragged screaming to the signing table....

"and we are determined to take a position of LEADERSHIP on this matter"

wow ,lol, I'd call it following rather than leading , but let em feed their egos and their electoral bases I guess

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

the US, and Kazakhstan are the only signatory nations, not to have ratified the act.

The Kyoto Protocol is an agreement made under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). Countries that ratify this protocol commit to reduce their emissions of carbon dioxide and five other greenhouse gases, or engage in emissions trading if they maintain or increase emissions of these gases.

The Kyoto Protocol now covers more than 170 countries globally and more than 60% of countries in terms of global greenhouse gas emissions. As of December 2007, the US, and Kazakhstan are the only signatory nations, not to have ratified the act. This treaty expires in 2012, and international talks began in May 2007 on a future treaty to succeed the current one.[4]

At its heart, the Kyoto Protocol establishes the following principles: ... etc

 

[white_goodman]

You do realise there is a big time lag for declaring animals extinct don't you?

well i know theres a big difference between thousands and seven...but valid point

 

[numbercruncher]

Look even if this small extremist fringe group of people denying climate change turned out to be correct, we need to clean up our planet and stop treating it like a toilet ..... I like that Indian proverb ...


"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money."


Dont you love how the deniers are now the Extremists and the acceptors are now considered realists represented by main stream society ?

 

[numbercruncher]

nc, agreed

I love the way Australia is doing it now,
and USA will no doubt do it when they are finally dragged screaming to the signing table....

"and we are determined to take a position of LEADERSHIP on this matter"

wow ,lol, I'd call it following rather than leading , but let em feed their egos and their electoral bases I guess

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

Heya 2020,

Yes lol let them feed the ego, guess theyve got some claim to it especially in comparison to the "alternative".

Yes hopefully they dream up a import tax large enough to place on goods manufactored in "non Kyoto" places to force them !


Heres the Mrs doing her bit to fight the good fight, only 6200m2 to go, wonder if shell make it in for dinner ?

 

[noirua]

I remember it well! The days when Mum had the same shopping bag that was passed down to her and went shopping, NO PACKAGING, and therefore no litter, no big dumps, and No need to be concerned about waste. And, And, And because of this there was less water used and less power required.

Global warming is caused also by the dreaded "AIR CONDITIONING" in houses and CARS.

Also all those freezers, washing machines, dryers.....you name it, it's there, and all of these items are causing global warming.

Get serious guys, we're the ones causing global warming, due to waste and lazyness.

 

[2020hindsight]

ok - Here's what NASA have on their website
http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/global_warming_worldbook.html

Here's graph of temp to 2000
http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/9929/a001008_pre.jpg

We are not just talking about Global Warming / Climate Change

We are talking RAPID Global Warming - totally unprecedented in history...

Global Warming Global warming is an increase in the average temperature of Earth's surface. Since the late 1800's, the global average temperature has increased about 0.7 to 1.4 degrees F (0.4 to 0.8 degrees C). Many experts estimate that the average temperature will rise an additional 2.5 to 10.4 degrees F (1.4 to 5.8 degrees C) by 2100. That rate of increase would be much larger than most past rates of increase.

Scientists worry that human societies and natural ecosystems might not adapt to rapid climate changes. An ecosystem consists of the living organisms and physical environment in a particular area. Global warming could cause much harm, so countries throughout the world drafted an agreement called the Kyoto Protocol to help limit it.

Causes of global warming

Climatologists (scientists who study climate) have analyzed the global warming that has occurred since the late 1800's. A majority of climatologists have concluded that human activities are responsible for most of the warming. Human activities contribute to global warming by enhancing Earth's natural greenhouse effect. The greenhouse effect warms Earth's surface through a complex process involving sunlight, gases, and particles in the atmosphere. Gases that trap heat in the atmosphere are known as greenhouse gases.

The main human activities that contribute to global warming are the burning of fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas) and the clearing of land. Most of the burning occurs in automobiles, in factories, and in electric power plants that provide energy for houses and office buildings. The burning of fossil fuels creates carbon dioxide, whose chemical formula is CO2. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that slows the escape of heat into space. Trees and other plants remove CO2 from the air during photosynthesis, the process they use to produce food. The clearing of land contributes to the buildup of CO2 by reducing the rate at which the gas is removed from the atmosphere or by the decomposition of dead vegetation.

A small number of scientists argue that the increase in greenhouse gases has not made a measurable difference in the temperature. They say that natural processes could have caused global warming. Those processes include increases in the energy emitted (given off) by the sun. But the vast majority of climatologists believe that increases in the sun's energy have contributed only slightly to recent warming.

The impact of global warming
Continued global warming could have many damaging effects. It might harm plants and animals that live in the sea. It could also force animals and plants on land to move to new habitats. Weather patterns could change, causing flooding, drought, and an increase in damaging storms. Global warming could melt enough polar ice to raise the sea level. In certain parts of the world, human disease could spread, and crop yields could decline.

Harm to ocean life

Through global warming, the surface waters of the oceans could become warmer, increasing the stress on ocean ecosystems, such as coral reefs. High water temperatures can cause a damaging process called coral bleaching. When corals bleach, they expel the algae that give them their color and nourishment. The corals turn white ...

Changes of habitat

Widespread shifts might occur in the natural habitats of animals and plants. Many species would have difficulty surviving in the regions they now inhabit. For example, many flowering plants will not bloom without a sufficient period of winter cold. And human occupation has altered the landscape in ways that would make new habitats hard to reach or unavailable altogether.

Weather damage

Extreme weather conditions might become more frequent and therefore more damaging. Changes in rainfall patterns could increase both flooding and drought in some areas. More hurricanes....

Rising sea level

Continued global warming might, over centuries, melt large amounts of ice from a vast sheet that covers most of West Antarctica. As a result, the sea level would rise throughout the world. .........

Threats to human health

Tropical diseases, such as malaria and dengue, might spread to larger regions. Longer-lasting and more intense heat waves could cause more deaths and illnesses. Floods and droughts could increase hunger and malnutrition.

Changes in crop yields

Canada and parts of Russia might benefit from an increase in crop yields. But any increases in yields could be more than offset by decreases caused by drought and higher temperatures -- particularly if the amount of warming were more than a few degrees Celsius. Yields in the tropics might fall disastrously because temperatures there are already almost as high as many crop plants can tolerate.

Limited global warming

Climatologists are studying ways to limit global warming. Two key methods would be (1) limiting CO2 emissions and (2) carbon sequestration -- either preventing carbon dioxide from entering the atmosphere or removing CO2 already there.

 

[2020hindsight]

continued (from article on NASA home page)

Limiting CO2 emissions Two effective techniques for limiting CO2 emissions would be (1) to replace fossil fuels with energy sources that do not emit CO2, and (2) to use fossil fuels more efficiently.

Alternative energy sources that do not emit CO2 include the wind, sunlight, nuclear energy, and underground steam. Devices known as wind turbines can convert wind energy to electric energy. Solar cells can convert sunlight to electric energy, and various devices can convert solar energy to useful heat. Geothermal power plants convert energy in underground steam to electric energy.

Alternative sources of energy are more expensive to use than fossil fuels. However, increased research into their use would almost certainly reduce their cost.

Carbon sequestration could take two forms: (1) underground or underwater storage and (2) storage in living plants.

Underground or underwater storage would involve injecting industrial emissions of CO2 into underground geologic formations or the ocean. Suitable underground formations include natural reservoirs of oil and gas from which most of the oil or gas has been removed. Pumping CO2 into a reservoir would have the added benefit of making it easier to remove the remaining oil or gas. The value of that product could offset the cost of sequestration. Deep deposits of salt or coal could also be suitable.

The oceans could store much CO2. However, scientists have not yet determined the environmental impacts of using the ocean for carbon sequestration.

Storage in living plants

Green plants absorb CO2 from the atmosphere as they grow. They combine carbon from CO2 with hydrogen to make simple sugars, which they store in their tissues. After plants die, their bodies decay and release CO2. Ecosystems with abundant plant life, such as forests and even cropland, could tie up much carbon. However, future generations of people would have to keep the ecosystems intact. Otherwise, the sequestered carbon would re-enter the atmosphere as CO2.

Agreement on global warming

Delegates from more than 160 countries met in Kyoto, Japan, in 1997 to draft the agreement that became known as the Kyoto Protocol. That agreement calls for decreases in the emissions of greenhouse gases.

Emissions targets

Thirty-eight industrialized nations would have to restrict their emissions of CO2 and five other greenhouse gases. The restrictions would occur from 2008 through 2012. Different countries would have different emissions targets. As a whole, the 38 countries would restrict their emissions to a yearly average of about 95 percent of their 1990 emissions. The agreement does not place restrictions on developing countries. But it encourages the industrialized nations to cooperate in helping developing countries limit emissions voluntarily.

Industrialized nations could also buy or sell emission reduction units. Suppose an industrialized nation cut its emissions more than was required by the agreement. That country could sell other industrialized nations emission reduction units allowing those nations to emit the amount equal to the excess it had cut.

Several other programs could also help an industrialized nation earn credit toward its target. For example, the nation might help a developing country reduce emissions by replacing fossil fuels in some applications.

Approving the agreement

The protocol would take effect as a treaty if (1) at least 55 countries ratified (formally approved) it, and (2) the industrialized countries ratifying the protocol had CO2 emissions in 1990 that equaled at least 55 percent of the emissions of all 38 industrialized countries in 1990.

In 2001, the United States rejected the Kyoto Protocol. President George W. Bush said that the agreement could harm the U.S. economy. But he declared that the United States would work with other countries to limit global warming. Other countries, most notably the members of the European Union, agreed to continue with the agreement without United States participation.

By 2004, more than 100 countries, including nearly all the countries classified as industrialized under the protocol, had ratified the agreement. However, the agreement required ratification by Russia or the United States to go into effect. Russia ratified the protocol in November 2004. The treaty was to come into force in February 2005.

Analyzing global warming

Scientists use information from several sources to analyze global warming that occurred before people began to use thermometers. Those sources include tree rings, cores (cylindrical samples) of ice drilled from Antarctica and Greenland, and cores drilled out of sediments in oceans. Information from these sources indicates that the temperature increase of the 1900's was probably the largest in the last 1,000 years.

Computers help climatologists analyze past climate changes and predict future changes. ....

In 2001, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a group sponsored by the United Nations (UN), published results of climate simulations in a report on global warming. ... etc.

 

[noirua]

Hey 2020, That last bit about computers helping. All these millions, probably a billion computers are all using extra energy and all that metal and plastic used in making them, and the PACKAGING to deliver them in. Then all the rubbish when disposing of all the CRT monitors and Windows 95 and 98 computers - what a load of rubbish. ( not your post 2020, excellent as always, just the mountains of rubbish leave me fuming.)

 

[numbercruncher]

Hey 2020, That last bit about computers helping. All these millions, probably a billion computers are all using extra energy and all that metal and plastic used in making them, and the PACKAGING to deliver them in. Then all the rubbish when disposing of all the CRT monitors and Windows 95 and 98 computers - what a load of rubbish. ( not your post 2020, excellent as always, just he mountains of rubbish leave me fuming.)

Valid point Noirua,

But on the flipside billions of email instead of printed stuff not to mention transporting the printed stuff. People study/work from home instead of driving across the city, lots of things, the waste probably balances with the savings - not down playing it , IT waste is becoming a huge problem - I couldnt imagine a world without the Internet and Computers - Id probably go crazy and bankrupt lol.

 

[chops_a_must]

Hey 2020, That last bit about computers helping. All these millions, probably a billion computers are all using extra energy and all that metal and plastic used in making them, and the PACKAGING to deliver them in. Then all the rubbish when disposing of all the CRT monitors and Windows 95 and 98 computers - what a load of rubbish. ( not your post 2020, excellent as always, just the mountains of rubbish leave me fuming.)

Well, murdoch uni had a computer recycling programme, that was incredibly successful. Unfortunately the uni have found it necessary to take over the guild rooms that this programmed required, without recompense. Not bad considering our Uni advertise as, and is regarded as, the world leader in environmental studies.

 

[white_goodman]

ok - Here's what NASA have on their website
http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/global_warming_worldbook.html

Here's graph of temp to 2000
http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/9929/a001008_pre.jpg

We are not just talking about Global Warming / Climate Change

We are talking RAPID Global Warming - totally unprecedented in history...

look at the data range on the graph...it fails to acknowledge the previous few hundred years, where are the numbers on the side...odds on the graph is only measuring a range of 1 or 2 degrees, also it doesnt say when it finishes, the last date is 1980.. neone gonna acknowledge since 2000 roughly temperature has stalled

 

[2020hindsight]

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6216&highlight=nasa&page=3

white...
Those gridlines on Y axis are 0.2 deg C each. (i think lol - tbc)
(but your job is to go to NASA and get the exact numbers right? lol - since you are interested in facts yes?)


Shinbone - if they were degrees we'd have closed down the barrier reef long ago.

btw, Note the bit about ... if we stopped making CO2e NOW, the earth would still be warming in 2100. (PS on looking back - maybe I didn't include that sentence in my summary - you'll find it in the article on NASA website)

This is the Titanic we are trying to turn around here...

Since the late 1800's, the global average temperature has increased about 0.7 to 1.4 degrees F (0.4 to 0.8 degrees C). Many experts estimate that the average temperature will rise an additional 2.5 to 10.4 degrees F (1.4 to 5.8 degrees C) by 2100. That rate of increase would be much larger than most past rates of increase.

btw, have a look at post #208 for the previous 1000 years - we are hotter than any of em !

 

[--B--]

Look even if this small extremist fringe group of people denying climate change turned out to be correct, we need to clean up our planet and stop treating it like a toilet ..... I like that Indian proverb ...

lol. now youre denying the deniers.

no doubt there are people who wholeheartedly deny GW however there also exists a large and growing group of people who simly ask for scientific evidence.

Dont you love how the deniers are now the Extremists and the acceptors are now considered realists represented by main stream society ?

according to you.