Global Warming - How Valid and Serious?

[numbercruncher]

Well there is one spot to save some Carbon, seen as Australia will keep winning cricket for eternity, lets just save the hasle and have the awards posted to us each year, no need for a match


Anyone as a comparison here is worst emitters per Country, regardless of population.

#1 United States: 5,762,050
#2 China: 3,473,600
#3 Russia: 1,540,360
#4 Japan: 1,224,740
#5 India: 1,007,980
#6 Germany: 837,425
#7 United Kingdom: 558,225
#8 Canada: 521,404
#9 Italy: 446,596
#10 Mexico: 385,075

more here

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_co2_emi-environment-co2-emissions

These figures are 2003 I understand, so im thinking China would of had a bug Jump since.

 

[2020hindsight]

Heres a good link to per capita emissions .....

#1 Qatar: 40.6735 per 1,000 people
#2 United Arab Emirates: 28.213 per 1,000 people
#3 Kuwait: 25.0499 per 1,000 people
#4 Bahrain: 20.0253 per 1,000 people
#5 United States: 19.4839 per 1,000 people
#6 Luxembourg: 17.977 per 1,000 people
#7 Trinidad and Tobago: 16.8278 per 1,000 people
#8 Australia: 16.5444 per 1,000 people
#9 Canada: 15.8941 per 1,000 people
#10 Singapore: 13.8137 per 1,000 people
rest on link

....
The worlds Lowest emitter is Congo, Democratic Republic of the: 0.0123428 per 1,000 people compared to the highest Qatar: 40.6735 per 1,000 people , now just Imagine the potential disaster when the Worlds 4b people with tiny tiny emissions come a banging for the "Western" type lifestyle , wow.

nc, those numbers differ from what I posted on #121 1nd #127 - which came from the following wikipedia website (that showed Aus worse that USA for instance) but no change to your conclusions I guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita

pretty good outcome in Bali I guess - could have been worse that's for sure, and at least they took it seriously - and now that almost everyone is on board, - and everyone knows that everyone else is serious, - and indeed USA were jeered - all good - now maybe people (incl USA) will start to take the next step seriously as well.

great start for Penny Wong -

 

[numbercruncher]

great start for Penny Wong -

Hell yes, Great start for the Labor party ! I feel like these guys are getting more done in Weeks than the "alternative" can/would/did in years!

 

[2020hindsight]

nc, lol - anyone remember how much Gough Whitlam achieved in the first week? - it was phenomenol lol
I personally don't mind if Rudd takes his time (by comparison )

Here's a poem to Penny baby
she'll be applauded "white and Wongly" after this .
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=235314&highlight=bali#post235314

 

[Smurf1976]

Well there is one spot to save some Carbon, seen as Australia will keep winning cricket for eternity, lets just save the hasle and have the awards posted to us each year, no need for a match


Anyone as a comparison here is worst emitters per Country, regardless of population.

#1 United States: 5,762,050
#2 China: 3,473,600
#3 Russia: 1,540,360
#4 Japan: 1,224,740
#5 India: 1,007,980
#6 Germany: 837,425
#7 United Kingdom: 558,225
#8 Canada: 521,404
#9 Italy: 446,596
#10 Mexico: 385,075

more here

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_co2_emi-environment-co2-emissions

These figures are 2003 I understand, so im thinking China would of had a bug Jump since.

Don't forget that much of China's growth is in exports.

The emissions resulting from making something I just bought that's made in China are quite properly the responsibility of Australia, as the consumer, not China.

Just as emissions from a power station are quite properly the responsibility of me for leaving the lights on, not the power generation business which simply supplied what I chose to consume.

You won't hear much of that sort of thinking however simply because it makes all the "outsourcing" countries that export services etc and import minerals and manufactured goods look bad and they're largely the ones pushing the issue anyway.

I'd be surprised if Australia was anywhere near as bad as the US if emissions were accounted for that way. The US has exported a lot of it's emissions to China etc whereas Australia's mining industry, smelters etc are effectively an emissions import. A lot of European countries including the UK would look quite a bit worse too - hence it's not being pushed.

 

[numbercruncher]

Don't forget that much of China's growth is in exports.

The emissions resulting from making something I just bought that's made in China are quite properly the responsibility of Australia, as the consumer, not China.

.

Yes i understand their Growth is mainly from exports, but if China didnt have such a good deal on the currency thing .....

Thats how Carbon taxes will help level it up a bit if these countrys dont reduce emissions. All stuff made that we "dont" need , like TVs, Toys and Gizmos made using dirty technologhy should face the tax, Give countries the choice, Invest upfront for renewables or pay for them via trade penalties. Just an idea

 

[Aussiejeff]

China came in at #80 and India at #113.
If Australia had double its present population it would almost match India's total carbon footprint.
Luckily we can still beat them at cricket, even if their coaches are Australian!

Cricketers should do their bit too. More 20/20 games... NO running between wickets (less CO2 from the batter's breath!) ... just slog from the crease .... of course, Gilly has the lowest CO2 footprint!



Chiz,


AJ

 

[numbercruncher]

Even if we managed to beat Climate change and rolled out renewable everything, how could Western Governments and Indeed capitalism survive the eventual fall in GDP ?

I mean lets say every home became self sufficent, Harvested its own Power via Solar and Wind, had an Electric Car that was recharged/fueled at home, Collected own rainwater, Grew own food etc - How could the "system" survive without the revenue from things like 50c per litre tax on Fuel and x amount of tax per Megawatt of Electricity, and Charging for water, and taxing food etc ?

 

[numbercruncher]

2007: worst year for the environment


As the politiicans in Bali debate how to deal with climate change, scientists on the other side of the world were reporting ever more devastating impacts from global warming.

The American Geophysical Union's annual meeting, in San Francisco, is one of the largest scientific conferences in the world - and it coincides exactly with the second half of the Bali meeting.

There, in a series of symposia, climate scientists reported how 2007 was becoming a "year of worsts". So far the year has seen the least sea ice in the Arctic, fastest retreat of mountain glaciers on Kilimanjaro, and the quickest decline of snow in Greenland.

Some even wondered if the earth is now nearing a "tipping point" in which climate change will become irreversible, sliding humanity into a future of floods, heat, and rising sea levels.

Some of the most dramatic changes occurred in the Arctic. At the ice pack's minimum extent last September, it was 23 per cent smaller than anytime since measurements began, with 1.6 million square kilometers more open water than in the previous record melt of 2005.

more in article ...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3050718.ece

We are looking increasingly doomed.

They need to make low carbon footprints "popular" perhaps run hard hitting adverts (like anti-smokings ads) showing how were all gonna die and cook or something

 

[--B--]

They need to make low carbon footprints "popular" perhaps run hard hitting adverts (like anti-smokings ads) showing how were all gonna die and cook or something

ah yes, propagate fear to scare them into action...

thats always been a favourite of greenies pushing their agenda..

 

[numbercruncher]

ah yes, propagate fear to scare them into action...

thats always been a favourite of greenies pushing their agenda..

True that, maybe they learnt from the likes of Bush, Howard and other neocons ? I mean if the neocons could convince the World that Iraqi children where running around with ebola tipped Intercontinental ballistic missles then surely Enviromentalists can convince the world of something thats measured, verified and unfolding before our very eyes ?

 

[--B--]

True that, maybe they learnt from the likes of Bush, Howard and other neocons ?

lol. never miss a chance to talk about the evil bush and howard.

lucking St Kev is here now and everything will be roses, right?

i for one am glad kev is stalling a decision on kyoto targets and has committed our troops to afghanistan..

I mean if the neocons could convince the World that Iraqi children where running around with ebola tipped Intercontinental ballistic missles then surely Enviromentalists can convince the world of something thats measured, verified and unfolding before our very eyes ?

ironically, both your silly examples appear completely incorrect

 

[chops_a_must]

True that, maybe they learnt from the likes of Bush, Howard and other neocons ? I mean if the neocons could convince the World that Iraqi children where running around with ebola tipped Intercontinental ballistic missles then surely Enviromentalists can convince the world of something thats measured, verified and unfolding before our very eyes ?

Classic.

 

[numbercruncher]

and has committed our troops to afghanistan..

Me too , I hope our guys get the task of Burning down opium crops, because for some reason Bush sucks at it ...

 

[--B--]

Me too , I hope our guys get the task of Burning down opium crops, because for some reason Bush sucks at it ...

i assume through your reluctance to post anything of substance, that you agree with me that greenie nutters rely on the tactic of propagating fear to the public, and that your silly example re Bush and Howard was quite irrelevant.

good to see.

 

[ghotib]

Smurf, you are not alone (but you prolly know that):

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/were-we-wrong-to-save-the-franklin/2007/12/17/1197740178873.html

 

[rederob]

ah yes, propagate fear to scare them into action...

thats always been a favourite of greenies pushing their agenda..

What agenda would that be?

A sustainable, peaceful, earth?

And not a drug riddled, war crazed, consumption oriented, wealth driven one?

Alas, I did vote green.

 

[rederob]

Even if we managed to beat Climate change and rolled out renewable everything, how could Western Governments and Indeed capitalism survive the eventual fall in GDP ?

I mean lets say every home became self sufficent, Harvested its own Power via Solar and Wind, had an Electric Car that was recharged/fueled at home, Collected own rainwater, Grew own food etc - How could the "system" survive without the revenue from things like 50c per litre tax on Fuel and x amount of tax per Megawatt of Electricity, and Charging for water, and taxing food etc ?

There's a very simple answer....
For every home to become self sufficient requires a recapitalisation and investment in the means that make it thus.
Then we will need to produce almost a billion electric vehicles.
While the tax on our reinvestments can mitigate the more harmful effects on the least wealthy.

Needless to say, a rejigging of the global manufacturing base will have to occur to put in place a world that can no longer suck from the oil teat.

 

[2020hindsight]

..need to make low carbon footprints "popular" perhaps run hard hitting adverts (like anti-smokings ads) showing how were all gonna die and cook or something

"mankind / civilisation leave massive footprints ..
they're called deserts"

gonna be interesting to watch how the next couple of (months and) years pan out - as they say "at least everyone is still talking"

today's Fin Review...
"a public debate on emissions trading must take place soon" ..

 

[chops_a_must]

Even if we managed to beat Climate change and rolled out renewable everything, how could Western Governments and Indeed capitalism survive the eventual fall in GDP ?

I mean lets say every home became self sufficent, Harvested its own Power via Solar and Wind, had an Electric Car that was recharged/fueled at home, Collected own rainwater, Grew own food etc - How could the "system" survive without the revenue from things like 50c per litre tax on Fuel and x amount of tax per Megawatt of Electricity, and Charging for water, and taxing food etc ?

You mean we might finally have to report all those things that are left out of GDP and GNP? Geez... those femo nazis will be happy.