Giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote?

[derty]

As we all know most generalisations are false

Most of the discussion so far has been criticising the ability of the current crop of 16-18 year olds to make an informed political decision and this is naturally so, as they are the ones who would be given the right to vote if this comes into effect. Though as Trainspotter rightfully pointed out, most of the 16 and 17 year olds from ANY generation would not have the faculties or experience to make a valid independent decision. They would likely vote for whoever their parents had conditioned them to choose or for whichever leader was the most popular or cool.


As for the argument about every generation since the dawn of time criticising the youth of the time. While some things remain the same, there are big differences between the respective generations in their period of youth. This is becoming more pronounced in this and the last century, particularly in the last 2 or three generations.

In the past the pace of progress was such that you would grow up and essentially live the same life that your grandparents would have lived. You would use the same technology, work similar jobs and even listen to similar music. The pace of change has accelerated significantly so much that now you will not live a similar life to that of your parents. The changes in technology, access to and forms of information, social interaction, social norms e.t.c. mean that now a 30 year old or younger cannot relate to and is not of the same mindset as a 20 year old.

For me the current iGen or meGen of instant gimmicky gratification is the least of the youthful generations to be entrusted with the ability to vote.

 

[trainspotter]

"They must be some pretty stupid teenagers. Over a limited sample, I could also conclude that adults are quite stupid and shouldn't be voting." Mr J Said

"Or allowed to breed to produce stoopid teenagers" Mr Trainspotter echoed.

Sorry to you Mr J ... I should have clarified my dismissive statements with IN MY OPINION. It seems the ability to read sarcasm is lost. IMO. I will try and contain my posts to be more succint and aimed at the specificity of the subject matter at hand.

I am not sure as to where the race card comes into it other than to explain your dislike of "generalisations" and in this context can be socially acceptable because we are basing our attention towards teenagers? It has long been considered in this current age of reason we find ourselves in that the transition from adolescent to adulthood is 18. Allowed to drink, to vote, for men to marry, charged as an adult for criminal activity and so on and so forth. This does not necessarily mean that an 18 year old has "flicked a switch" in their brain and they see the all encompassing light of the world. (I think I was about 21 before this happened to me) Let me clarify this statement before everybody reaches for the flamethrowers. Hmmm , it's time to grow up and face responsibilities like a steady job, mortgage, ball and chain etc et al ad infinitum. AND yes there are plenty of 40 year olds I know who still have not managed to break out of what they were doing when they were 18. No home, no savings, no future prospects..

I watched a doco on ABC 1 about how teenagers think and their reaction times compared to adults. They were shown pictures of "good and bad" and "dangerous and safe". They failed miserably in what was compared to "ADULTS". Their reasoning .... they did not reckon jumping off a cliff was dangerous (base jumping) or that Charles Manson was not really that evil.

I rest my case.

 

[trainspotter]

Another generlisation is that everyone on this forum is a man and that we all have a sense of humor.

hehehe

I think Julia might get upset at this one. BUT ... she does have a sense of humour.

 

[Mr J]

Sorry to you Mr J ... I should have clarified my dismissive statements with IN MY OPINION. It seems the ability to read sarcasm is lost.

Sarcasm? Your posts did hint a bit of a joke, as your comments seemed over the top, but overall it seemed you weren't joking. Either way, I caught conflicting signals in that post, and if you were joking then it seems you still thought there was much truth to it.

I am not sure as to where the race card comes into it

It was a comment on society's hypocrisy when it comes to discriminating by age.

I watched a doco on ABC 1 about how teenagers think and their reaction times compared to adults. They were shown pictures of "good and bad" and "dangerous and safe". They failed miserably in what was compared to "ADULTS". Their reasoning .... they did not reckon jumping off a cliff was dangerous (base jumping) or that Charles Manson was not really that evil.

So, it was a test to see how well teenagers would think like adults? No consideration of time, perspective or values?

I rest my case.

You haven't made a case, so it is unfortunate that you're already resting it.

 

[antzlovinit]

Governments can now target 16 to 17year olds. Yep vote for the person who reduces taxes on alchol, smokes,petrol and whom increase youth allowance by $5pw, More leisure time with less education... Hmm maybe a promise for government handouts will do the trick and being allowed to purchase alcohol. and if Rudd wins, hmm i can see why.

Or is it by giving 16 to 17 year olds the right to vote, let them know that they are young adults and should be a little bit responsible for their life.

 

[biggles]

In my experience ( 4 kids ) a lot of school teachers would be labor voters . Lovely for that party. Channel them in !!!!!!

 

[trainspotter]

LOL @ Mr J "Sarcasm? Your posts did hint a bit of a joke, as your comments seemed over the top, but overall it seemed you weren't joking. Either way, I caught conflicting signals in that post, and if you were joking then it seems you still thought there was much truth to it." I used to be indecisive but now I am not so sure? You can read my thoughts? WOW ... you are good !

"It was a comment on society's hypocrisy when it comes to discriminating by age." And so there should be. It is called positive discrimination. When was the last time you saw a 16 year old accountant/policeman/lawyer? What about the instances when employers ask for "Junior staff". When was the last time you were served by a 55 year old man at McDonalds? (Other than the owner) Some people consider that teenagers and youth (around 15–25 years old) are victims of adultism, age discrimination framed as a paternalistic form of protection. In seeking social justice, they feel that it is necessary to remove the use of a false moral agenda in order to achieve agency and empowerment. Could this be the case in this instance whereby we are "protecting" the innocents from themselves? Remember what happened in the "Lord of the Flies" when there was no parental control? CHAOS reigned supreme.

You haven't made a case, so it is unfortunate that you're already resting it. Unfortunate for whom may I ask? So we can blather away at each other over OUR principles on the topic? I think not. Case adjourned.

 

[ands]

People 18 years and older can't seem to vote properly. What chance do 16 year olds?

 

[nioka]

When I was a pre teen I thought the oldies knew everything.
When I was an early teen I began to have doubts.
When I was sixteen I knew that the oldies had no clues at all and thought I had reached the point of knowing everything there was to know.
When I was eighteen I began to have doubts.
Since then I have developed to a point where I find I can learn something new every day.
I rest my case.

 

[Sith1s]

Well if KRudd is thinking of bringing the voting age forward then he should also bring forward the age they're trialed as an adult in court.

Old enough to vote as an adult, old enough to account for their actions in court..

My

 

[Buckeroo]

In my experience ( 4 kids ) a lot of school teachers would be labor voters . Lovely for that party. Channel them in !!!!!!

Good point, no doubt just before an election, KRudd will meet with the Teachers union and give them a bit of spin of how important it is to get the young people to vote for labor.

I wonder what type of school work would be done one week leading up to the election - political studies?

Reading between the lines, all this is, is a blatant attempt to enlist labor supporters - and you know what, it will probably happen just like the legalization of gay marriage!

Cheers

 

[Agentm]

as its abundantly clear a human brain is mid development at age 16 -17 the idea of utilising all its capacity to make easy fully developed decisions opens up an interesting debate

20s and beyond
According to recent findings, the human brain does not reach full maturity until at least the mid-20s. (See J. Giedd in References.) The specific changes that follow young adulthood are not yet well studied, but it is known that they involve increased myelination and continued adding and pruning of neurons. As a number of researchers have put it, "the rental car companies have it right." The brain isn't fully mature at 16, when we are allowed to drive, or at 18, when we are allowed to vote, or at 21, when we are allowed to drink, but closer to 25, when we are allowed to rent a car.




MIT have done extensive research on it as have others

http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/youngadult/index.html

Adolescence

* Abstract thinking arrow
* Right/wrong framework arrow
* Instrumental relationships arrow
* Intensity of emotion arrow
* Sensation seeking arrow



Adolescence also brings, as a result of hormonal changes at puberty, increased sensitivity to alcohol and other drugs, alterations in the sleep cycle, and changes in the hormones associated with mood. All of these changes interact, contributing to adolescents' heightened vulnerability to mood disorders and other types of mental illness.



CHANGES IN YOUNG ADULTHOOD

Dramatic Change
A large and relatively new body of research is revealing that young adulthood is a time of dramatic change in basic thinking structures, as well as in the brain. Consensus is emerging that an 18-year-old is not the same person she or he will be at 25, just as an 11-year-old is not the same as he or she will be at 18. They don't look the same, feel the same, think the same, or act the same.

Three Categories
Across theories and research frameworks, a sequence of developmental shifts emerges, which can be organized into three overall categories:

* Adolescence (generally defined as puberty through age 18)
* Young adulthood (generally defined as 18 to 22 or 18 to 25)
* Later adulthood (generally defined as mid-20s and older)

Many researchers and theorists divide these three broad areas into several smaller shifts, depending on the aspect of development they are measuring, such as reflective judgment, moral development, or cognitive structural development. There remains much division within and between disciplines, but, at the broader level, they share significant common ground.

The Mental Visor
Fundamentally, what changes in these developmental shifts is not just what people think, but also what they think about. Everyone, including young adults, has a kind of mental "visor" that screens out some kinds of phenomena while letting in others for consideration. As development unfolds, one can "see" and think about more and more complex phenomena such as abstractions, relationships, and moral problems, offering more and more powerful thinking tools.

Why does development happen? Most researchers see a role both for nature and nurture. In healthy people, some changes evolve on a biological timetable, as long as the environment is "good enough," and some changes are prompted by demands in the environment, as long as the biological underpinnings are "good enough."

When teens enter young adulthood, their thinking capacities, relationship skills, and ability to regulate emotions are unlikely to be at a developmental level where they can cope easily with the demands of a diverse, global, technological, rapidly-changing world. If all goes well, biology and environment bring a surge of growth paralleling those of childhood and adolescence.

An Emerging Field
Acknowledging these findings, researchers have begun to define young adulthood as its own developmental period, referring to it as "emerging adulthood," "the frontier of adulthood," or, earlier, "the novice phase." Here at the start of the 21st century, researchers are creating a new field around young adulthood, just as, at the turn of the 20th century, researchers defined a new field around adolescence.

Much of the impetus and focus for the research has come from the lengthening period in the U.S. between the onset of puberty and the fulfilling of cultural expectations around adult roles like financial independence and family formation. Significant differences can be expected across culture and circumstance.

Young Adulthood

More Complex Thinking
As teens progress into young adulthood, they are able to hold and manipulate on their mental "visor" not only single abstractions, but also clusters of abstractions and then systems for organizing abstract thoughts, according to Kurt Fischer, Michael Commons, and others. (See References.) This assists them perhaps most visibly in mathematics and sciences, but applies to thinking about all phenomena, such as ideas, values, and perspectives.

Appreciation for Diverse Views
This added thinking power is described by William Perry and others as a change from the "right/wrong" framework of adolescence to a more "multiplistic" framework, in which young adults can "see" many points of view, value the diversity of people and perspectives, and appreciate that there can be many right answers to a problem. At first, all ideas seem to have equal value, as one embraces the full diversity of peoples and perspectives. Over time, one finds ways to organize this multiplicity, to identify values and viewpoints that work better for oneself, while respecting that other viewpoints may fit better for others. Ultimately, one evolves a more "relativistic" approach and works out ways to commit personally to certain values amidst the diversity.

Mutuality in Relationships
Young adults are better able to consider different points of view at the same time, that is, to hold multiple perspectives on their mental visor. This allows them to form relationships with peers based on observing that they care about the same things and loyalties to institutions based on observing that they share the same values. They can also understand constrctive criticism, appreciating that the other person is intending to be helpful, even if the effect is painful at the moment. Moving from an "instrumental" to a more "socializable" orientation, in Robert Kegan's terms (see References), young adults are more likely to operate from a principle like the Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Emotional Regulation
Critical to their safety, young adults acquire a significantly greater capacity for integration of thought and emotion. With the ability to hold the present and the future on their mental visor at the same time, they can weigh immediate rewards against future consequences, putting more effective "brakes" on the emotional intensity and sensation-seeking heightened since puberty.

Risk-taking and Decision-making
With this greater capacity for thinking about future consequences and regulating emotions, young adults have an easier time modulating risk-taking and making decisions about the future, including choices about health, relationships, education, and careers. They can also weigh the impact of their choices on others more effectively, in actions as simple as showing up for appointments on time or as complex as parenting a young child.

Caveats
The advent of a new developmental skill, such as multiplistic thinking, does not mean that one uses that skill all the time. Rather, it becomes a new option, one that at first can be tapped only with a great deal of support, probably in one particular area, such as an academic subject. Gradually it becomes easier and more familiar and hence used more frequently across a wider range of life experiences. For more information on these gradations, see Developmental Range.

A more sobering caveat is that some people never fully achieve these milestones at all. Although they occur in young adulthood if all goes well, there are by no means automatic, and they can be delayed or severely limited by a number of circumstances, including mental illness; learning disabilities; frequent use of alcohol or other drugs; and abuse, neglect, deprivation, violence, and other traumas. See Individual Differences.

 

[jono1887]

Isn't the vote they are going to be given just voluntary? I doubt that the majority of 16-17 year/olds would be bothered to go out an vote on a Saturday.

I'd think that making the voting process voluntary would ultimately be the most efficient and effective democratic system. Isn't removing the right to not voting in its self a non-democratic system :