Gay Marriage

[luutzu]

I thought Steve Rogers committed suicide.

He flew the plane into the Artic right?

 

[Ald123]

I'm not proposing anyone to be inseminated against their will.

So you agree that a doctor has the right to deny care based on their religious beliefs?

Would those affected have the right to make this choice known to the wider community? Would the community have the right to boycott the doctor since his choice conflicts with their views?

As for a shop owner, was it right for white shop owners to refuse to serve black patrons? is it ever right to discriminate based on age race sex? If not, why is it OK to discriminate based on sexuality?

In my job we have a number of religious based organisations. generally Catholic institutions. Would you support me going to my employer and saying my conscience prohibits me supporting these customers due to the ongoing child abuse that was covered up over decades, that the Church's stance on abortion causes great harm to women and children whose parents may not be in a financial position to support.

Once you allow people to do things based on a discriminatory attitude, where do you draw the line?

Would it be Ok for a doctor to withold life saving treatment based on a religious view? Is it right for a parent of the Mormon faith to let their child die by not allowing them to have a blood transfusion? Would you support a Islamic doctor refusing to treat a Christian, or to treat a non Muslim woman? These are just some of the pandora's box of issues you would unleash if we followed your path.

Medical care no, but insemination is not medical care, she can inseminate herself

We discriminate against minors when we don't sell them alcohol and cigarettes

You should go to your employer and tell him that but this day nobody gives a crap, money smells good.

But what you raise is honourable. I really hope that there is a final judgement. The people in the Catholic Church who committed, commit and covered up child abuse, grrrrrrr. I don't want to be in their shoes and I hope those who were abused get every tear wiped away. On this point I get so angry that words fail me. I think that those abusers in the Catholic Church and Isis are brothers. To me these people are like Hitler.

Again the Cathoilc Church and Goverment have failed women in such a way that a woman believes the lie that in having an abortion she is not killing a child. Her child. Young girls need to be given support even if it was their stupidity, and these children should be born and cared for by society. If we cannot do this then we too are Hitlers.

There is no justification for not treating anybody due to a religious view. But suing a doctor for cosmetic or non medical procedures is ridiculous, come on be reasonable and see that we must find some consensus on that point.

 

[Ald123]

that's called standing up for yourself.

The difference here is that gays are not fighting to take anything away from you, they are fighting for equal rights, how ever you are fighting for the continuation of an unjust law that denies them of rights.

Allowing Gay marriage takes absolutely nothing away from you, you are not under attack.

gays win = tink loses nothing
Tink wins = gays continue being denied rights.

Nobody is discriminating against gays, have all the rights you want, have civil unions, have a Gayrriage
Just don't call it marriage and don't shove it down my kids throats .

 

[Ald123]

Join the two sentences I have highlighted together. If you do believe in a god as a creator then how the hell can you then say "It is about my right to say that in my family" or anyone else's family.

Religious grounds for discrimination is astoundingly hypocritical! If someone is that way then surely that is because your god made them just like that???

It's about my right to listen to the creator when he says that. Thus its my right to keep that in the family when referring to other people and governments.

Listen there are many Gay Catholics who have a strong love and belief of God. They experience incredibly strong sexual feelings towards the same sex. Though it's a massive struggle especially when young, they try live chaste lives, they experience unrequited love and get their hearts broken just like other people. They hate themselves when they experience these strong feelings for the same sex because they know it's true that it's not according to Gods plan. They manage their emotions learning via maturity to take responsibility for their entire person and internal life. They don't disturb the peace of their sexual facilities and don't stimulate the facilities, after a while they are calm and pursue higher interests and friendships and become happy people.

 

[Ald123]

Yes, that's a perfectly valid question. I'd like to hear those higher ups in the Catholic church answer that one. Something along the lines of moving paedophiles from suburb to suburb comes to mind as one of the ways they protected children over the decades.

Yup and you and me share the same outrage about that. I just hate that which they did so much , I boil.
I wouldn't f around with child abusers. If I became president, within 3 days I would round them up and stop that.
Enough is enough. i don't think so many kids got justice, I do t think they have been helped and the damage inside healed.

 

[Value Collector]

Nobody is discriminating against gays, have all the rights you want, have civil unions, have a Gayrriage
Just don't call it marriage and don't shove it down my kids throats .

That's a bit like saying blacks can ride the bus, they have the rights, they just can't sit at the front of the bus, because that's for whites.

Why don't you make your own special type of religious marriage, you can call it holy matrimony , and it can be special thing you do at your church while you drink the blood of Jesus etc, and the rest of us will have normal lawful marriage in the eyes of the law.

just don't call your religious cults matrimony thing marriage, and don't shove it down my kids throat.

 

[Ald123]

I was brought up a Christian, and still hold many of the teachings from Jesus as a good way to live.

The sad fact is most Christians have little to no understanding as to how their lives based on his teachings.

Jesus was someone who accepted people. He hung with the lepers and prostitutes. He'd certainly not be a Creflo Dollar trying to get 50 odd million to buy the most expensive Gulf private jet on the market. He'd certainly have stormed through the Catholic church throwing out much of the leadership for what they've done to children for decades.

I agree with you here, they would get flayed with a whip for what they did and failed to do. Accepting people and yet not accepting some of their behaviours is a part of love.

 

[Ald123]

No one is forcing you to have a gay marriage.

Yes they are, they are telling my kids and other people that there is no difference between normal marriage and gayrriage.

 

[trainspotter]

Abbott is in a bit of a pickle too, with his sister, and presumably with his parents.

Would be interesting to listen to their conversation at family gathering.


Look sis, I love you and all that. But you're going to hell, as simple as that. God don't like gay people, you're gay and so, you know.


That or...

Look sis, I don't really believe in this anti-gay and bible stuff. I love you, wish you all the happiness... but see, I'm the Prime Minister and the polls and my advisors all say if I want that lifetime pension I have to win the religious votes... to do that mean I'll have to go against my true belief and throw you and your kind under the bus. That's life, that's politics and there's no soul to lose anyway so I'll be OK, will be set for this life at least.


Either way, he's not that likeable.

I will take option #2 please.

OR

Hey Sis, you know how you want me to allow the conscience vote and it will go directly against everything I believe in and what you stand for by being a carpet muncher but it is a private members bill but I want to remind you that this government was elected to turn back the boats. You can row your own boat as much as you like but the selection committee will advise me if the polls consider that to have my profile picture tinted in a rainbow flag as a sign of support for gay marriage then I will do just that.

#POTUS says "Today is a big step in our march toward equality. Gay and lesbian couples now have the right to marry, just like anyone else." #LoveWins

#PMOAUS says "Today the Government took an additional step to keep Australia safe"#StopBoats

 

[Ald123]

Oh is anyone else finding this thread hilarious? Like poking an angry dog with a stick LOL



OH I'm waiting...





Ahh now we get to see your true colours.

You should print this out and stick it away in a drawer so you can look back on the person you once were.

If it's any consolation I wouldn't be too embarrassed when the time comes. It was good for a laugh!

Stick it in your drawer and look back one day. I can guarantee you, before your life expires you will regret these words.

 

[Value Collector]

for an issue that doesnt matter, sure is a lot of discussion

a day or so ago, but MANY pages, a poster wondered whether younger people had a different attitude.


prompted me to ask my 3 sons aged 18-25 what their peers thought.

they agreed ~99% of their peers are in support, as are they.

They said the few dissenters were strong Christians, (or Muslims) BUT even they were
considered to be not fervently against.

As they sometimes use terms such as "fkn gay faggot", they are not what you would call 100% politically correct cleanskins either

My wife pointed out that this is an issue that mainly affects younger people, as they get married, but I added that older people such as me dont give a toss what other people think anyway

I predict the Libs are going to get well-and-truely jammed on this issue

I am a life time liberal voter, never have I thought of voting labor. But if this becomes an election issue that the Libs won't budge on, I will give labor a protest vote, and if a hardline lib supporter like me is willing to do that, I guess a lot of others will to.

 

[Ald123]

I have found Steve Rogers (Captain America) to be a more inspiring figure than Jesus, he saved the world by selflessly crashing a plane full of nuclear weapons into the arctic ice cap, where he lay frozen for 60 years. He later went on to defeat Hydra again.

Sure Jesus turned some water into wine that sounds like a party trick, and they say he died on the cross for us, but he woke up 3 days later, Steve Rogers crashed a plane into ice for us and he didn't wake up for 60 years.

Jesus also said slaves obey your masters, Steve Rogers stands for freedom.

Hooray for Cap'n America !

 

[Ald123]

That's a bit like saying blacks can ride the bus, they have the rights, they just can't sit at the front of the bus, because that's for whites.

Why don't you make your own special type of religious marriage, you can call it holy matrimony , and it can be special thing you do at your church while you drink the blood of Jesus etc, and the rest of us will have normal lawful marriage in the eyes of the law.

just don't call your religious cults matrimony thing marriage, and don't shove it down my kids throat.

I think that will be the solution in the end. I can clearly see the groundswell of support for gayrriage.
I warned against it, so that nobody accuses me of being a misery merchant, but mark my words this will be something future generations will regret happene.

 

[trainspotter]

I am a life time liberal voter, never have I thought of voting labor. But if this becomes an election issue that the Libs won't budge on, I will give labor a protest vote, and if a hardline lib supporter like me is willing to do that, I guess a lot of others will to.

VC don't get all righteous and group all of us hardline Libs into the same pot please.

Mr Abbott pushed back against those calling for debate, and a free vote, in the Liberal party room on Thursday declaring it was "quite unusual for private member's bills to come on for debate".

"This government was elected to grow jobs, to promote the stronger economy, to secure our nation against the various challenges that we face at home and abroad, and that's what we are doing," he said.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...to-allow-conscience-vote-20150702-gi3l3y.html

OOooohhhh looky ... there goes a unicorn riding on a rainbow :frown:

 

[Value Collector]

It's about my right to listen to the creator when he says that. Thus its my right to keep that in the family when referring to other people and governments.

Listen there are many Gay Catholics who have a strong love and belief of God. They experience incredibly strong sexual feelings towards the same sex. Though it's a massive struggle especially when young, they try live chaste lives, they experience unrequited love and get their hearts broken just like other people. They hate themselves when they experience these strong feelings for the same sex because they know it's true that it's not according to Gods plan. They manage their emotions learning via maturity to take responsibility for their entire person and internal life. They don't disturb the peace of their sexual facilities and don't stimulate the facilities, after a while they are calm and pursue higher interests and friendships and become happy people.

Imagine if you will for a moment that that creator doesn't actually exist.

What a waste it would be to live a life without love and sex, all because of a dusty old book of myths.

It's crazy, the best thing is just to live you life in a way that makes you happy, without harming others, and without stopping others from seeking their own happiness, as long as they aren't harming others.

If there were a god, do you really think he cares who you have sex with?

 

[Value Collector]

VC don't get all righteous and group all of us hardline Libs into the same pot please.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...to-allow-conscience-vote-20150702-gi3l3y.html

OOooohhhh looky ... there goes a unicorn riding on a rainbow :frown:

I don't think anything I said was putting people in the same pot.

I am talking about myself, and simply saying that if I think that way, there must be others too.

 

[Value Collector]

I warned against it, so that nobody accuses me of being a misery merchant, but mark my words this will be something future generations will regret happene.

Why would they regret it?

What's the worst that can come from it?

 

[Value Collector]

And what exactly is this (gay)"Agenda



I really want this one explained,

How is your religious freedom being trampled (by gay marriage)? no one is taking any of your religious freedoms away.

Please give me one example of where your religious rights have been infringed.

ok so after Tink made another bunch of unjustified claims, I asked her to explain her position, but yet again she falls silent, we won't hear from her again until she bursts in again probably saying something about gay marriage being anti children or against her religious rights or some other circular arguments and logical fallacies which she will never back up.

so since she failed to answer the questions above I would like to put them to anyone that holds similar views to her.

 

[trainspotter]

I don't think anything I said was putting people in the same pot.

I am talking about myself, and simply saying that if I think that way, there must be others too.

For shizzle ... but the party believes in a "civil" marriage between man and a woman. Keeping of the realm and all that and you would be surprised as to how many demographics would identify themselves as "straight" ...

More specifically, 1.8 percent of men self-identify as gay and 0.4 percent as bisexual, and 1.5 percent of women self-identify as lesbian and 0.9 percent as bisexual

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...on-is-gay-more-than-you-think-5012467/?no-ist

The veiled method increased self-reports of non-heterosexual identity by 65% (p<0.05) and same-sex sexual experiences by 59% (p<0.01). The veiled method also increased the rates of anti-gay sentiment. Respondents were 67% more likely to express disapproval of an openly gay manager at work (p<0.01) and 71% more likely to say it is okay to discriminate against lesbian, gay, or bisexual individuals (p<0.01)

So let's let the Libs libel themselves up over this one now shall we?

 

[trainspotter]

ok so after Tink made another bunch of unjustified claims, I asked her to explain her position, but yet again she falls silent, we won't hear from her again until she bursts in again probably saying something about gay marriage being anti children or against her religious rights or some other circular arguments and logical fallacies which she will never back up.

so since she failed to answer the questions above I would like to put them to anyone that holds similar views to her.

She has an opinion as do you have yours. I spoke with my partner about this and my partner answered thusly ... "You don't see this happening in the wild do you? I mean do you see male lions cohabitating with other male lions and expect the species to survive" (She actually used a lot more expletives and made funny gestures with her pelvis in a thrusting motion)

Yes you do have fish and frogs that change sex due to seasonal adjustments (Darwinsm?) but also the brain influences sexual development depending on the social environment. This is due to genetics.

Us homo sapiens are hardwired to be male or female in the brain. The body is the hinderance hence why we are having this discussion.

Check it out ... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justi...d-the-rise-of-the-alpha-female_b_4968667.html