Gay Marriage

[trainspotter]

MMA get's in on the act ...

Romero may have slightly tarnished his reputation after the fight however, coming out with a rather absurd string of broken English during the post-fight interview.
Wearing a sweat band embroided with the bible verse “John 3:16”, the Cuban fighter called out to the American crowd, apparently in religious opposition to the recent passing of the marriage equality bill.
“What happened to you USA?” Romero said.
“Wake up USA, go for Jesus, don’t go for gay Jesus people.”

http://www.news.com.au/sport/ufc/ro...with-heavy-elbow/story-fnkjww7x-1227418773407

Not sure if the bible verse “John 3:16” was the correct script to be using?

I would have thought "Leviticus 18-22" was the passage he was referring to.

 

[Ald123]

One day we all die. On that day we might find heaven, we might find hell or there will be nothing to find and no existence. All I know is that I am not God and that everything I am, everything that exists, was given to me. I did not ask for it.

I also know from nature and evolution that there exists for some reason male and female and they have different but utterly compatible sexual organs that evolved for their coupling.

As a human being I wish to live in accordance with nature. If others have a different desire that's for them to worry about.

What i know for a fact however is that nature is mastered by obeying its laws. Sustainability is to obey natures laws.

 

[MrBurns]

Yes everything that lives must die if you want to know what that's like just remember the year before you were borne .....

 

[moXJO]

I haven't met one person who agrees with gays marrying. The only place I see agreement is in discussion boards. The best I have garnered is a pair of gay friends who at best prevaricate, otherwise no one.

I think most people don't really care, but just want it off the agenda so we can talk about more important things nationally, like the attempts by the Right to destroy university education, or how we can solve the deficit problems.

How the hell you two left leaning fairies aren't running around covered in glitter, in your rainbow undies, with a I support gay marriage is beyond me.

But seriously, you two come across as a lot more open minded in other threads. What gives?

 

[sydboy007]

What i know for a fact however is that nature is mastered by obeying its laws. Sustainability is to obey natures laws.

Heading towards 8 billion humans on the planet. Natural ecosystems collapsing under our demands. The oceans turning into desserts from our plundering.

Yes, humans natural tendencies to procreate uncontrollably is certainly sustainable.

 

[Value Collector]

One day we all die. On that day we might find heaven, we might find hell or there will be nothing to find and no existence. All I know is that I am not God and that everything I am, everything that exists, was given to me. I did not ask for it.

I also know from nature and evolution that there exists for some reason male and female and they have different but utterly compatible sexual organs that evolved for their coupling.

As a human being I wish to live in accordance with nature. If others have a different desire that's for them to worry about.

What i know for a fact however is that nature is mastered by obeying its laws. Sustainability is to obey natures laws.

Nature creates both straight and gay individuals, who are we to stop same sex couples from living the way nature made them, no one is harmed by same sex marriage.

Seems a bit elitist to say your preferred version of love is better than some one else's.

yes, we will all die our own deaths, so we must live our own lives, so why deny others who are not harming you or any one else rights?

 

[SirRumpole]

How the hell you two left leaning fairies aren't running around covered in glitter, in your rainbow undies, with a I support gay marriage is beyond me.

But seriously, you two come across as a lot more open minded in other threads. What gives?

Speaking for myself it doesn't really bother me if two consenting same sex people want to get married, I don't think it's the business of governments to tell consenting adults of sufficient mental capacity what to do. I am , however sick of seeing and hearing the subject discussed as though it's the most important thing in the world.

I'm also sick (almost literally) of seeing men hugging and kissing each other and trying to pretend it's normal. It may be for them, but not for most of us. If people want to practise minority behaviour, don't do it on my TV screen thanks.

I also am concerned about children being forced to be brought up in what the vast majority of us would consider an un-natural environment. I understand that its difficult for homosexuals to be bought up in an environment that seems abnormal to them, but that's no reason to force a similar environment onto children who will most likely turn out heterosexual, and will belong to a different family environment and they deserve the attentions of both a mother and father.

 

[bellenuit]

I also know from nature and evolution that there exists for some reason male and female and they have different but utterly compatible sexual organs that evolved for their coupling.

Evolution doesn't have a purpose, just an outcome. It is like saying giraffes grew long necks so that they could reach the leaves of tall trees enabling them to survive in times of undersupply of accessible vegetation. What happened was that when accessible vegetation was in short supply, those giraffes with longer necks survived and reproduced, passing on the DNA for longer necks to their offspring. Over time that DNA predominated in the giraffe population (because those without it didn't survive), so that giraffe's gradually as a consequence ended up with longer necks.

As a human being I wish to live in accordance with nature. If others have a different desire that's for them to worry about.

What i know for a fact however is that nature is mastered by obeying its laws. Sustainability is to obey natures laws.

Our nature, for use of a better word, is both physical and psychological. Often the two are at odds. A prime example is those who feel their physical body doesn't match their psychological "being". Males who psychologically feel female and vice versa. How then do you live in accordance with nature? Which law do you obey? There is a lot of evidence to suggest that following your psychological feelings is better than trying to fit your persona into its physical representation in such circumstances. That is why you hear that people in this situation who have changed genders are happier for making the change. They have often gone from being suicidal in their pre-physical change state to being content as one could possibly be in the transgender state (even accepting the rejection they experience from family, friends or society in general).

It is lucky for you that your physical, psychological and sexual orientation are all aligned with what we normally regard as heterosexual. But don't confuse what you regard as "natural" as being "natural" for others.

 

[galumay]

I also am concerned about children being forced to be brought up in what the vast majority of us would consider an un-natural environment.

I suspect you will find the majority of us dont consider that to be an un-natural environment.

but that's no reason to force a similar environment onto children who will most likely turn out heterosexual, and will belong to a different family environment and they deserve the attentions of both a mother and father.

Straight marriage is no gaurantee that kids will have the attention of a mother and a father.

What really matters is that kids grow up in a loving and supportive environment, there is no reason to think that is less likely with gay parents.

Many gay couples are particular to provide gender role models, my sister and her partner have had 2 children now, using the same male as a sperm donor. They have involved him in the kids upbringing as a male role model - so they have 2 mums and a dad!

Finally the whole parenting thing is really irrelevant to gay marriage, gay couples will have kids whether or not they are allowed to get married.

(I too was surprised at your attitude to this issue given you have shown your self otherwise to be an open minded and progressive thinker.)

 

[Ald123]

Yes everything that lives must die if you want to know what that's like just remember the year before you were borne .....

Well the problem with that is that it's a bit like when I was under anaesthetic in hospital recently. I did not remember a thing, but when I woke up I had needle holes all up and down my arm, ripped skin above my lip where some nurse or doctor just ripped a tape attached tube from my mouth in the rush to get me out and the next dollar making patient in, plus a great big wound where they cut into my body. As far as I was concerned I never existed, but it didn't stop the nurse shoving a big ass catheter up my ....



At this point in time I kind of understand those alien abductee victims who claim a ufo took them away and shoved metal rods up where the sun don't shine. But I am glad you know exactly what it's like before you were born and after you die.

Another person I met and became close friends with, well one day after many years of knowing him, he shared a highly personal account of a time in his life with me, that he was clinically dead for 45 minutes in a car crash said that while he was "dead" his life flashed before his eyes. Then he claimed he eventually spoke with God after first experiencing himself alone in a void of utterly unbearable loneliness while fully conscious in some afterlife state which he states ended after he made an act of faith in a relationship with God and this resulted in him experiencing utter paradise plus God and given the choice to return to life and amend his ways. He chose to return and complete his life's work. He has since passed away again but in life he was the most generous and kind, deep person I have ever met and he would try to uphold all the virtues to the best of his abilities.

I guess we have to wait and see if it is what we believe or know in life that determines what we get in the after life.

It's a bit like trading, you just don't know what that share price is going to be.

 

[Ald123]

Heading towards 8 billion humans on the planet. Natural ecosystems collapsing under our demands. The oceans turning into desserts from our plundering.

Yes, humans natural tendencies to procreate uncontrollably is certainly sustainable.

Yes I completely agree with you.

I think that the governments, contraception pill manufacturers, media, condoms, males and especially the abortion clinics have been a great failure in human civilisation that have done nothing to truly liberate women and give them the choices, freedom and support that they need to be female. But very little people would have the capacity to deeply consider the matter and come to the same conclusion.

To be truly liberated women need to reliably know when it is they are ovulating and to avoid sexual intercourse at those times and be internally free psychologically to take decisions at such a time that are about respecting themselves and the people they care about. Of course this is not something anybody wants to talk about because everyone wants instant gratification. To get rich quick so to speak.

There was a brilliant doctor in Melbourne who was involved in building a monitor that would analyse chemically the type of vaginal mucus a woman was experiencing and which would clearly indicate ovulation and what stage in her cycle she was in. It's a pity that research like this doesn't get supported and absolutely demanded by women. In a monitor like this would lie the only true women's liberation. Everything else is BS. There is no contraceptive method that works except the one that knows every individual women's cycle perfectly and knows what period of days she is fertile.

There is a problem of sustainability on the planet related to the sheer numbers of people on earth, but there is a bigger problem related to the fact that the children that are born in their billions are not loved properly and cared for and nurtured and raised to be good human beings. If this was done, there would be much fewer unhappy people in the world who start wars from their poverty (ISIS, Somalian pirates, etc,.) or from their egos ( Americans bombing civilians in the thousands, husseins and Bin ladins and their types) or indeed from their desire to be rich and powerful (weapons manufacturers, politicians)

Ideally you want two people a mom and dad that deeply love each other, that are capable of love, capable of raising children perfectly and lovingly, living in a society that loves its children, with a government that loves its people's children and supports their families having as many children as they can truly love perfectly. If we had such a system the worlds population would be a lot smaller and society would be healthier and the world would be an enjoyable place. But we prefer eating from the pig trough which is why the world is the way it is.

 

[Ald123]

Nature creates both straight and gay individuals, who are we to stop same sex couples from living the way nature made them, no one is harmed by same sex marriage.

Seems a bit elitist to say your preferred version of love is better than some one else's.

yes, we will all die our own deaths, so we must live our own lives, so why deny others who are not harming you or any one else rights?

I am not convinced that nature has anything to do with creating gay people, I can accept this as a possibility, but that is less important then truly understanding gay people and what they experience especially their difficulties. My gay friends have told me that their problem was with their parents, specifically a very dysfunctional relationship with a dysfunctional father. What I would call abuse was also involved in other cases. My view at the moment is that this is more likely the cause of being gay based on what they have told me. My one gay friend yearned for time with his father which was denied him and he feels that this harmed him in some way. It's heartbreaking to hear.

I also observed how other people are able to acquire the desire to become gay due to needing to be loved and accepted by somebody. Others have the sexual urge directed towards this at some point in their lives and acquire a taste for it just like people are known to acquire sexual feelings towards objects.


I would say, who are we that we do not support gay people with their difficulties. I would say that it is extremely egoistical to assume that nobody is harmed by same sex marriage. I would say that with rights come responsibilities and that we can't talk about or understand which rights we can grant unless we have the ability and capacity to address the responsibilities. I was shocked to learn that a couple of pedophiles were granted the right to adopt children and these guys were pimping their toddler son all over the world for money to be abused by others. in the same way we have aboriginal children in communities with drunk parents, while we pretend that we are not abusing another stolen generation. We have refugee children being abused in concentration camps. Everyone is very quick to talk about their rights but not about their responsibilities. We have a responsibility to ensure that children are loved and cared for but children's rights in most countries are ignored.

We don't live our own lives, this is a fiction, what I do directly impacts my neighbour.

I think that if gay people want to have civil unions and equal benefits they should be granted this but without then ignoring or neglecting the real families who battle to raise children without any support from anyone.

Where is everybody doing the Children Pride marches? demanding that children are given their rights?
It's time to fight for children's rights, they are the great unseen neglected little people that have no voice in society and are treated with contempt.

 

[Ald123]

Evolution doesn't have a purpose, just an outcome. It is like saying giraffes grew long necks so that they could reach the leaves of tall trees enabling them to survive in times of undersupply of accessible vegetation. What happened was that when accessible vegetation was in short supply, those giraffes with longer necks survived and reproduced, passing on the DNA for longer necks to their offspring. Over time that DNA predominated in the giraffe population (because those without it didn't survive), so that giraffe's gradually as a consequence ended up with longer necks.



Our nature, for use of a better word, is both physical and psychological. Often the two are at odds. A prime example is those who feel their physical body doesn't match their psychological "being". Males who psychologically feel female and vice versa. How then do you live in accordance with nature? Which law do you obey? There is a lot of evidence to suggest that following your psychological feelings is better than trying to fit your persona into its physical representation in such circumstances. That is why you hear that people in this situation who have changed genders are happier for making the change. They have often gone from being suicidal in their pre-physical change state to being content as one could possibly be in the transgender state (even accepting the rejection they experience from family, friends or society in general).

It is lucky for you that your physical, psychological and sexual orientation are all aligned with what we normally regard as heterosexual. But don't confuse what you regard as "natural" as being "natural" for others.

The purpose in nature stems from the fact that nature exists. Not because your long necked giraffes were the ones that survived. Existence serves a purpose in itself, we may not understand what that purpose is but by its fact proves it.

Without belittling or taking away anything from your very well written post, there are statistics that suggest that with time and old age people that have undergone sex changes eventually regret their decisions. Indeed I feel fortunate that I am not one that had to endure that particular personal difficulty, nor do I want people who do endure that difficulty to be neglected by society or given poor choices with how to live in dignity with that difficulty or to find the solution for them. I don't think that replacing one tragedy with another by finding the quick fix is the solution even though I can accept that for some cases the quick fix is indeed the solution for that particular individual.

But happiness is something else.

You can give somebody happiness. You can learn how to be happy. (Assuming no physical disorder) This I think is fundamental.

I am not anti-gay, please I want this to be absolutely clear. I don't stick my head in the sand and pretend however, I see that happiness is a right and I wish it for everybody.

 

[Ald123]

I suspect you will find the majority of us dont consider that to be an un-natural environment.



Straight marriage is no gaurantee that kids will have the attention of a mother and a father.

What really matters is that kids grow up in a loving and supportive environment, there is no reason to think that is less likely with gay parents.

Many gay couples are particular to provide gender role models, my sister and her partner have had 2 children now, using the same male as a sperm donor. They have involved him in the kids upbringing as a male role model - so they have 2 mums and a dad!

Finally the whole parenting thing is really irrelevant to gay marriage, gay couples will have kids whether or not they are allowed to get married.

(I too was surprised at your attitude to this issue given you have shown your self otherwise to be an open minded and progressive thinker.)

Wow your last statement is so incredibly disrespectful and egoistical I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Tink]

Well said, Ald.
This self interest group is all about themselves -- children's wants and needs, come last.

Civil unions are fine, but don't change Marriage.

The children are the future, and they deserve the same as what we grew up with.
A mother and father are important in a child's life and that is what Marriage is.
.
Marriage is between a man and woman, and needs to stay this way - the gold standard - and taught in schools as is.

This trying to push no gender, and that we are all social constructs, and we can be what we want to be, in the wrong skin, in the wrong body, morals are what you want them to be.
This is confusing for these poor children.

Let them be children and enjoy their childhood.

No, it should not be changed.

Same sex, social constructs, no gender, pornography all go hand in hand.
Open your eyes people to what they are pushing.
All sexually orientated.
Pornography, prostitution.

Political correctness is an insidious poison.
It prevents issues of vital importance from being discussed, and lets evil flourish unchecked.

 

[Tisme]

If gay marriage goes ahead, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't support species marriages. Surely we are not so old fashioned not to consider the love of a dog, donkey or cat as just as much a personal choice and intimacy. Who are we to hold back a man from taking multiple partners in marriage, hell we could mix it up a bit and have a "menagerie au trois"

Yep I've seen the way my cat looks at me.

Things have been weirder, I mean there are a bunch of woman over the centuries who married a guy (who died about 30AD) with three personalities and those women became sisters.....say what :screwy:

 

[moXJO]

I am not anti-gay, please I want this to be absolutely clear. I don't stick my head in the sand and pretend however, I see that happiness is a right and I wish it for everybody.

Apart from thinking that homosexuality is a mental disease. Do you believe it to be curable as well?
When that guy came back from his God experience, what were his views on gay marriage. Did God tell him to champion the cause of straightness?

Think of the children huh.
I wonder how many kids that were homosexual, necked themselves over the years with views being pushed that they are against nature and against God.

 

[Logique]

I think we're entitled to stand up for the institution of marriage, including the Marriage Act in present form, without being accused of bigotry and retrograde thinking.

Ald made this point quite correctly. This isn't about gay bashing.

Not anti-gay, just anti-social engineering.

 

[SirRumpole]

I suspect you will find the majority of us dont consider that to be an un-natural environment.

Can you supply any evidence to support that statement ? MOST of us who were bought up with a mother and father (90%+ of the population) would consider that to be the "natural" state of affairs, and regard gay households as a deviation from the norm.

As well as the fact that two people who cannot reproduce themselves but need the assistance of others is not a natural condition.

 

[moXJO]

I think we're entitled to stand up for the institution of marriage, including the Marriage Act in present form, without being accused of bigotry and retrograde thinking.

Ald made this point quite correctly. This isn't about gay bashing.

Not anti-gay, just anti-social engineering.

Oh please what would you call it.
"No your not good enough to be married"

I'd say the higher percentage of people that divorce, treat marriage with more contempt.