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divs4ever, what is an FGC?
Fokas Beyond?
- Thread starter prash
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wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Heya mate, not trying to be an asshole, my goal is edification, but:Hey Wayne,
Thanks for that high tech....stuff...
I think all you managed to do is scare the poo poo out of Richo56....
The guy hasn't started in the markets yet.
I'm a property person and a Covered Call strategy is analogous (similar) to buying/holding a property, that has a cashflow (rent(dividend)), and selling a contract (it is also called a Call Contract in the property world) for a fee (premium) for someone to promise to buy it if it goes up in value at an agreed price and time.... What great deal!!! And If you don't want to sell it you go to market and buy the Call option back, albeit at a higher fee less time value, hence paying you for your time. If the property (shares) drop in price the Call contract expires worthless. Go again, next month....
1/ Options ARE a high tech instrument with many traps for the unwary. Although covered calls perhaps one of the simplest strategies to use, an analysis via the Greeks should be used in order to determine whether it is in fact the best strategy for the investor.
In certain circumstances no option strategy at all might be the best strategy, ie just long stocks.
2/ I know that the "renting shares" analogy is used all the time and equated with renting the property.
Although the goal in both is to collect income from an asset, in no way is it analogous.
When you rent a house you are not in way giving someone the rights to purchase the property, with a sold call option, that is exactly what you are doing, management of the position not withstanding. The collection of rent in Norway impinges upon your ability to collect capital gains on the property, as it does with options.
The only true renting of shares is when shares are borrowed for the purpose of short selling.
Options of course are used in real estate, but most often by developers, but that is not the same as renting.
Again not trying to be a *u*t, but I think should people should become far more educated then they do when entering the options markets.
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i meant GFC , .. i am getting old and sometimes the fingers do not work in the correct order
cheers
but any major downturn can be dangerous when your platform/lender gets nervous ( and flooded with instructions )
I have been a small time Investor for about 5 years in Shares, Crypto and ETF's. I would like to get into Options and CFD's but I haven't stepped over that anxiety threshold as yet to put in the time that is required to learn the Fokas Beyond platform, I only know of one couple who are on the platform and the Wife is an accountant so she is getting right into it.Hey Wayne,
Thanks for that high tech....stuff...
I think all you managed to do is scare the poo poo out of Richo56....
The guy hasn't started in the markets yet.
I'm a property person and a Covered Call strategy is analogous (similar) to buying/holding a property, that has a cashflow (rent(dividend)), and selling a contract (it is also called a Call Contract in the property world) for a fee (premium) for someone to promise to buy it if it goes up in value at an agreed price and time.... What great deal!!! And If you don't want to sell it you go to market and buy the Call option back, albeit at a higher fee less time value, hence paying you for your time. If the property (shares) drop in price the Call contract expires worthless. Go again, next month....
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It is interesting to play the logic game....
This is not necessarily George Fokas, but could be anyone....
If you have been doing the Covered Call strategy, since 1999, and had an investment of $10k. Very conservatively, if you made 3% per month and compounded it, and sold 1 Fokas Beyond "record set", each month at a $4k profit, and paid 20% tax on any of this income... By my calculation, you'd be worth in excess of $234m.
Why the F"£$!! would you still be spruiking this stuff, instead of just making money and enjoying you life, family and experiences....
This is not necessarily George Fokas, but could be anyone....
If you have been doing the Covered Call strategy, since 1999, and had an investment of $10k. Very conservatively, if you made 3% per month and compounded it, and sold 1 Fokas Beyond "record set", each month at a $4k profit, and paid 20% tax on any of this income... By my calculation, you'd be worth in excess of $234m.
Why the F"£$!! would you still be spruiking this stuff, instead of just making money and enjoying you life, family and experiences....
Garpal Gumnut
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Who is making 3% a month? That is not conservative at all. If you do that long term you are ahead of 99.9% of investors.
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if you had a 20 or 2000 million dollar port folio why would you be needing to make 3% a month also liquididty may become an issue
i get the point you are getting at and side with you as most of these option courses and alert services are scams, covered calls on stock or ETFs like the QQQ and SPY can easly achive 2 or 3 month
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The US equity markets have a $46.2 TRILLion cap, and the options markets trade over $250 BILLion PER Day!!!. I don't think liquidity will ever be an issue, especially if you trade with the market, with just a mere pitiful $200m. I wouldn't $40m nett per year.
Conservatively 3% percent simply compounded comes to over 42% per year. (I did this in less than a year.... Unfortunately, I lost my nerve)
My point is Why is he busting a gut training others???.... His selling education, free arbitrage and commissions, renewals, and gold pans and shovels must be making him a shite ton more than simply trading....
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you dont get filled on every order you put through including selling basic spreads on stocks like google or amazon around the 30 deltas.
you would also know why would some one put 200 let along 20 million at risk. given you claim to have made the exact return of the number spoken of its doubtfull you made that return.
im not saying his trading is any good or his pruducts are as i have zero idea in what he is peddling but if you are good at something why do it for free
wayneL
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No they can't
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with gains yes, or how often you wish to trade them, those options have the 0 DTE to several years out
wayneL
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Let's see the maths and or historic results long term
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investor13,
You missed the point.
He is somewhat taking advantage of "students", corralling them into his ecosystem, to make a much greater returns at while disabling them. That why I am not a student any more....
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i should claraify i mostly have done similar results or better with1 -3 or 1-1-2 ratio spreads in the SPX or ES futures
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no i adressed it. i have no idea in what he is selling but if you are good at something why do it for free.
ever since covid you tube has exploded with gurus peddling crypto or option courses and product most make there money out of selling pruducts not actual trading. to say George Fokas is i dont know
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No. Missed it again.
He is not only selling a product... He is taking advantage of "students", corralling them into his ecosystem, to make a much greater returns at while disabling them; selling them a car, selling them the petrol, but NO map, just "left" and "right". The students then can not go anywhere else. And what happens if he closes the doors... Potentially the students will not know how to pick CCs, and worse loose there funds in accounts operated by Fokas Beyond.
wayneL
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That then is not a covered call, which is a 1:1 ratio.
Anything apart from that becomes another strategy. That is a whole 'nuther bowl of wax, and grist for the mill for a completely different discussion.
The topic here is the hocus Focas (and others) claim that returns of approximately 3% per month, month in month out, year in year out are entirely achievable. That is bullshyte and and any audited results of broker sheets would expose this as fact.
I want to reiterate that I see no problem with the covered call strategy to suit a certain view of the market, or even in a systematic strategy. However *net* returns of 3% per month are just not achievable.
In fact they are a number of covered call ETFs, which may have an attraction for certain investors, do expose the fact that this is an unachievable dream. I do think an individual investor could potentially achieve better returns than the etfs, not much. Additionally that is the spectre of taxation as the strategy does create taxable events along the way which will probably reduce the net net results.
Representation of such is nothing more than sophistry. To reiterate again, systemic-covered call writing could *potentially marginally increase results above buy and hold over the long term, it will not be anywhere near 3% per month.
As ever, I am happy to peruse real life data and await to be proven wrong.
Garpal Gumnut
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Mr. Fukas is a kind and loving person who would give you the shirt off his back. He attends church on a regular basis and trains rescue dogs. Despite having lost his left leg and right arm trying to save an 87 yo lady from being run over by a tram he still travels by one. A primary concern for him is the environment and global cooling.
Despite not having spoken until the age of nine he can do long division in his head. Many world leaders consult him for advice on geopolitical events including Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Sinwar and he is on first name terms with both of them.
Never one to blow his own trumpet he can play one handed all of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 5 in E flat ('Emperor') to a superior degree and he makes a mean pasta carbonara.
I will fight anyone who says anything of a derogatory nature about Mr. Fukas.
gg
Despite not having spoken until the age of nine he can do long division in his head. Many world leaders consult him for advice on geopolitical events including Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Sinwar and he is on first name terms with both of them.
Never one to blow his own trumpet he can play one handed all of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 5 in E flat ('Emperor') to a superior degree and he makes a mean pasta carbonara.
I will fight anyone who says anything of a derogatory nature about Mr. Fukas.
gg
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Exactly anybody who could do this would not bother selling bull**** courses as just compounding a modest amount of starting capital at those rates of returns would make you rich very quickly and anything else would just be a pointless distraction.
Not saying there aren't people in the world that can make 3% per month (until they hit a size where their strategy performance starts deteriorating) but I can guarantee nobody that can actually do it is selling courses on how to do it or making youtube videos etc.
