Fatso

[burglar]

Sam from SMH has some pretty strong things to say about comments about, toward fat people.


http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/culture/blogs/all-men-are-liars/fatso-20120620-20o3v.html

I have now read the OP's link!

Now, I wish pull my previous post in which I declared my excess holdings!!

 

[Boggo]

There may be some advantages

 

[johenmo]

Thanks for clarifying, my opinion (unless the person has a legitimate medical illness/implication as to why they are over-weight) is that no one has any excuse for allowing themselves to get in such a situation. Do these people have no pride? Aren't they embarrassed walking down the street beside their spouse, friends, or family?

If I looked in the mirror every morning and saw someone overweight I would be deeply ashamed. I'm flat out every week and I still manage to take the time to ensure I am eating nothing but healthy food, fruits, vegetables, fish, meats, water the lot, with perhaps 1 chocolate a week if I'm lucky. Overweight people seem to find the gym daunting, but the only reason the people inside are looking good is because they are in the gym

I understand they may be depressed, but being over-weight certainly doesn't help depression, in fact I'd say quite the opposite. Get the help you need, or simply help yourself get out of the rut you're in. If you take comfort in eating **** food and feel good while doing it, imagine how great they would feel if they ate healthy, looked good and felt good. There is no excuse what-so-ever imo.

Over eating isn't as simple for many people as you lot seem to think (a comment to get it started!!). My first thought reading a lot of the above is "%^&* me!". It's like saying "Do you feel suicidal? Then think happy thoughts!" or "Got a gambling addiction? Stop spending money" and claiming the job's done. Disclosure re weight: I have the opposite problem - keeping weight on and as such have been a keen observer of eating habits.

The reasons are usual more than one and varied. For many it is all about attitude about one's self, whether that be depression or any other mental condition. The same people can often be found to lack motivation or will power in/towards non-food activities. So they don't go to a gym. People seek comfort via food (as some seek love through sexual encounters). Then they gain weight and feel worse, and the downward cycle continues. Like alcohol, other drugs, gambling, etc.. The shame and lack of motivation causes them to not seek help. And the cycle deepens.

They don't go to the gym because next to the fit people they feel worse. And not every huge person who loses weight ends up with tight, taut, trim skin. More than you think will be left with saggy/flappy folds, which they also hate.

Don't get me wrong - i too get frustrated when people who shouldn't do go back for second helpings or have bigger than the rest portions. At unit I saw young ladies who were watching their weight and wouldn't have a proper lunch but would have coffee and a piece of cake instead. Didn't understand the mental side of it then.

I have been living with someone who will gain weight if they eat what I eat and the quantity I eat, and I have been on a careful diet for 20+ years re fat, etc. That is part of the reason I have trouble keeping it on. So they have to consume a lesser amount of "nothing but healthy food, fruits, vegetables, fish, meats, water the lot" than me. A different metabolism for sure.This gets to them and then they get sick of being envious of what our guinea pigs get to eat and will eat more than they should. Which doesn't help her depression.

Another group that eats the wrong food is the poorer part of society. As I remarked in another thread, people like to be rewarded and reward themselves. And since the Gucci gear, holidays, more expensive items are out of reach, they reward themselves with food. Food marketers know this and use this information. Including super-sizing containers. And it's the calorie-laden food that is cheap and feeds any sugar addiction they may have developed.

I suspect most people who contribute to this forum are reasonably motivated, and hence would find it easier to seek help or break any cycle. My apologies to those who don't fit that description..... And most people seem to need a mentor/teacher/helper to achieve in life.

 

[qldfrog]

The above post seems quite out of character for you, Smurf. I can't see any reason to suppose people who are critical of obesity would binge drink.

Imo it would be the opposite. Someone who takes care to maximise their health by keeping their weight in a healthy range would surely be unlikely to rack up all those extra calories by drinking excessive amounts of alcohol.
.

+ 1 there: fat and alcohol /beer do get very well together is I observe my colleagues
I drink socially but in moderation and never in binging session: what is the point???

 

[Smurf1976]

The above post seems quite out of character for you, Smurf. I can't see any reason to suppose people who are critical of obesity would binge drink.

Imo it would be the opposite. Someone who takes care to maximise their health by keeping their weight in a healthy range would surely be unlikely to rack up all those extra calories by drinking excessive amounts of alcohol.

It seems to me that being fat will soon be the new normal.

According to everything I've seen and read on the subject, a substantial proportion of Australian society does binge drink and does so often enough to be a health concern. It's not just youth and it's not just a few people here and there. It is widespread from the late teens to people in their 50's (see link below as my source).

In other words, binge drinking has become common to the point of being "normal" in Australian society.

My point is that if we're going to worry about those who are overweight then why not also worry about those who binge drink or engage in other unhealthy practices?

How many people on this forum can honestly say they never drink to excess? My life experience to date tells me that the majority of Australian adults do from time to time, and a quick Google search finds data that somewhere around one fifth of Australian adults do it weekly. That's a lot more than the stereotypical 20's age group and it's a health disaster in the making just like obesity and smoking. http://www.virtualmedicalcentre.com...ge-drinking-alcohol-intoxication-disorder/131

I just get the impression that it has become socially acceptable to target the obese and, of course, those dreaded smokers whilst alcohol abuse is largely ignored.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think what Smurf is trying to say, is why isnt there the same negative attitude towards binge drinking?

Exactly. It's a significant health problem, and one that appears to be increasing and yet hardly a word is said.

 

[CanOz]

I just get the impression that it has become socially acceptable to target the obese and, of course, those dreaded smokers whilst alcohol abuse is largely ignored.

Alcohol abuse, such as binge drinking...is still largely socially acceptable...almost part of Australian culture, from my view! hic...:alcohol:

Until it becomes something that is frowned upon like smoking, then i doubt it will change.

I must say, i love a drink too! Especially on a Friday night:drink:! I have no problem going long periods without a beer or wine though, and my weight loss is quite apparent.

I can't party like i used to though....it just hurts too much now...

CanOz

 

[Calliope]

Alcohol abuse, such as binge drinking...is still largely socially acceptable...almost part of Australian culture, from my view! hic...:alcohol:

Until it becomes something that is frowned upon like smoking, then i doubt it will change.

I must say, i love a drink too! Especially on a Friday night:drink:! I have no problem going long periods without a beer or wine though, and my weight loss is quite apparent.

I can't party like i used to though....it just hurts too much now...

CanOz

I drink a bottle of red every every night, and have done so for years. It is my reward for having survived the day. My BMI is 25, and my doctor assured me, only yesterday, that my liver is OK. This is a great country, and it produces some glorious reds with nary a headache next morning.

Cheers.

 

[Julia]

Over eating isn't as simple for many people as you lot seem to think .........

Another group that eats the wrong food is the poorer part of society. As I remarked in another thread, people like to be rewarded and reward themselves.

Then consider the value of the short term 'reward' v the long term reward. That crap food provides pleasure for a few seconds. Rejecting it puts the person on the way to the long term healthier body, with a consequent reduction in depression.
Vigorous exercise has in many studies been shown to be as effective as much medication in reducing depression.
Isn't that a more logical way to go than stuffing more rubbish down the throat and collapsing onto the couch in misery?

And since the Gucci gear, holidays, more expensive items are out of reach, they reward themselves with food. Food marketers know this and use this information. Including super-sizing containers.

It's still a matter of personal choice to eat good food in smaller quantities or to binge on rubbish. For heaven's sake, we can see the super sized containers. Surely it's utterly obvious that the super sized containers hold an excessive amount of food?

Children can figure this out at about age three.

Despite your post above, Johenmo, being long and thoughtful , my reaction is still that we all as individuals have a responsibility for our own health, and all the sympathy about 'comfort eating' etc is misplaced.

Who says obese people are disadvantaged because, on account of their being fat, they are too embarrassed to go to a gym? I've never been to a gym in my life because I prefer to walk/run with my dog and swim daily.
Can't actually think of anything worse than pumping on some machine along with sweaty people when I could be out in the fresh air enjoying the scenery.

Everything worthwhile takes personal effort.
At some stage fat people have to say to themselves: how much do I want to be healthy and look reasonable?
If they really do, then they have to make the same decision as the rest of us to avoid crap food and eat lots of vegetables, some protein and minimal carbohydrate, along with plenty of exercise.
Yes, they will actually be required to exhibit some self discipline. Just get on with it and stop making excuses.

 

[Julia]

How many people on this forum can honestly say they never drink to excess?

I'll put my hand up. Two glasses of wine every evening. Don't want any more.
I have certainly had nights of drinking excessively when young and silly. Rarely though. The next day was enough to cure me of that.

My life experience to date tells me that the majority of Australian adults do from time to time, and a quick Google search finds data that somewhere around one fifth of Australian adults do it weekly. That's a lot more than the stereotypical 20's age group and it's a health disaster in the making just like obesity and smoking.

I just get the impression that it has become socially acceptable to target the obese and, of course, those dreaded smokers whilst alcohol abuse is largely ignored.

How about all the fuss a couple of years ago which precluded the alcopops tax? This was all about a massive government and community concern that our teenagers were apparently without exception drunken sots at 13 due entirely to their binge level consumption of these pre mixed drinks. So whacko, on goes a tax on this product. What happened? The kids just acquired bottles of spirits instead and mixed their own usually much stronger drinks with soft drinks from the supermarket.

The government, however, pronounced the reduced sale of the premixed product a brilliant success and claimed a major milestone in showing young people what not to do.
What rubbish!

Perhaps it depends where you source your conclusions. I'm a pretty avid listener to ABC Radio, both Radio National and the Local Network. There are on both networks heaps of programs on binge drinking to the point that I turn it off. Much less on obesity.
I don't personally know anyone who drinks excessively. Do know quite a few who don't drink at all.

If it's something you feel strongly about, Smurf, maybe start a thread on binge drinking.
I don't think it's unreasonable that comments on this thread have related to attitudes to obesity, given that's what the OP was apparently on about.

 

[Tink]

I think these are all addictive behaviours -- drugs, eating, drinking, smoking.
They can all be turned around.

I can understand what Smurf was saying, pointing the finger at one, if you are doing another.

 

[So_Cynical]

It's a pretty simple equation in my eyes. Calories in v calories out.
The rest is just excuses.

I will probably get pilloried for being a simpleton, sometimes the truth hurts.

4 years ago i cut my calorie intake by maybe a third (stopped drinking) and started regular exercise (30 minutes a day 4 days a week) i lost maybe 3 kilos in the first 3 months and that was it...and have maintained my over weightiness since.

So yes your a simpleton also my mum years ago had her stomach stapled...calorie intake more the halved, weight loss negligible.

 

[burglar]

4 years ago i cut my calorie intake by maybe a third (stopped drinking) and started regular exercise (30 minutes a day 4 days a week) i lost maybe 3 kilos in the first 3 months and that was it...and have maintained my over weightiness since.

So yes your a simpleton also my mum years ago had her stomach stapled...calorie intake more the halved, weight loss negligible.

This would suggest a huge shift in metabolic efficiency.
It is a pet theory of mine.
Your body gets less calories and decides to extract more from each bite!

 

[johenmo]

Despite your post above, Johenmo, being long and thoughtful , my reaction is still that we all as individuals have a responsibility for our own health, and all the sympathy about 'comfort eating' etc is misplaced.

Agreed. The ultimate responsibility is the individual & the sympathy is misplaced.

Then consider the value of the short term 'reward' v the long term reward. That crap food provides pleasure for a few seconds. Rejecting it puts the person on the way to the long term healthier body, with a consequent reduction in depression.
Vigorous exercise has in many studies been shown to be as effective as much medication in reducing depression.
Isn't that a more logical way to go than stuffing more rubbish down the throat and collapsing onto the couch in misery?
.....Yes, they will actually be required to exhibit some self discipline. Just get on with it and stop making excuses.

I guess when talking about depression we're talking about a medical condition. Certainly it comes in many forms. I tend to think of depression now as chemical (there's a biochemical reason e.g genetic (and this exists) or drug abuse (I know someone who has very bad depression & psychosis (been locked away fro her own safety) & a single mum, and she also overeats) and environmental (e.g. caused by an event). In the former case, it's bloody hard to just get up and go, hence the need for support. In the latter case, these are the ones who can change their outlook overnight and progress. And are probably the ones to which the thread refers. Just don't punish the former - it's more difficult than a lot think.

Who says obese people are disadvantaged because, on account of their being fat, they are too embarrassed to go to a gym? I've never been to a gym in my life because I prefer to walk/run with my dog and swim daily.
Can't actually think of anything worse than pumping on some machine along with sweaty people when I could be out in the fresh air enjoying the scenery.

Everything worthwhile takes personal effort.
At some stage fat people have to say to themselves: how much do I want to be healthy and look reasonable?
If they really do, then they have to make the same decision as the rest of us to avoid crap food and eat lots of vegetables, some protein and minimal carbohydrate, along with plenty of exercise.

I didn't mean to imply they are disadvantaged, more than it's perceived as a barrier. And perception is or becomes reality. Been to a gym - outside is much better (except @ this time of year in victoria when it's ssoooooo cold). And they never play the music I like.

Eaters are like smokers - when nagged about it, they move straight to the psychological crutch (food, fags).

Food in it's many forms has never been cheaper - look at the % of the income needed to be fed over the decades and it's dropped. The easy and bountiful access is a problem for some. The Mayor of NYC is thinking of banning super-sized containers. Despite personal freedom etc, sometimes people need to be saved from themselves and I think this is one of them.

I am more sympathetic and less judgemental than I used to be, and that influences my views. Love the debate Julia - whilst we disagree on some finer points we seem to agree in general. Now to binge drinking, where I am not sympathetic...

 

[johenmo]

If it's something you feel strongly about, Smurf, maybe start a thread on binge drinking.
I don't think it's unreasonable that comments on this thread have related to attitudes to obesity, given that's what the OP was apparently on about.

+1

 

[Julia]

I guess when talking about depression we're talking about a medical condition. Certainly it comes in many forms. I tend to think of depression now as chemical (there's a biochemical reason e.g genetic (and this exists) or drug abuse (I know someone who has very bad depression & psychosis (been locked away fro her own safety) & a single mum, and she also overeats) and environmental (e.g. caused by an event). In the former case, it's bloody hard to just get up and go, hence the need for support. In the latter case, these are the ones who can change their outlook overnight and progress. And are probably the ones to which the thread refers. Just don't punish the former - it's more difficult than a lot think.

Entirely reasonable point, johenmo. Plus many of the antipsychotic medications do cause weight gain.
Still, the proportion of the population with psychosis is probably very small compared with those who are just lazy.

I remember an interview on, I think, the 7.30 Report, with a woman in middle age who had been obese for most of her life. She said: "I tried diet after diet" "Nothing worked". (Translation usually goes something like:
"I starved myself for five days and lost weight, then went back to overeating).

Then she developed some significant medical condition caused by her obesity and was told by the relevant medical specialist brutally: If you do not lose weight you will die. No question.
She accepted a referral to a dietitian and actually followed the prescribed diet. She lost weight and her medical condition largely resolved.

She said "In the end I just had to wake up and take responsibility for my weight".

 

[johenmo]

Julia - last sentence says it all. Remember a boss saying to someone else about under performance "It's all about whether you "wanna", and I don't see that you "wanna".

Good morning BTW - is minus something outside with a max of 8 plus rain and wind - not conducive to getting outside. see attached... and we have rellies coming from warmer climes tomorrow!!

 

[luap77]

I have consulted for a Biochemistry research team from time to time who are examining the obesity epidemic.

My firm opinion (I don't wish to offer advice) is that weight loss is readily possible for anybody whose obesity isn't a result of an untreated underlying medical condition.

My firm opinion (based on the data and facts I've dealt with) is that this doesn't require any exercise (though of course it won't hurt/will help), and comes down to one specific ingredient in the diet...processed SUGAR (sucrose), or in some cases foods with an inordinately high sugar content (sugar beet, honey, dates, dried fruit, or certain fruits with a high fructose content).

My firm opinion is that a person whose obesity isn't a result of an untreated underlying medical condition can lose significant body weight (in a healthy manner) by simply being absolutely thorough in eliminating ALL processed sugar intake (i.e. Zero food that has added sugar, zero fruit juice, as often high in fructose) and limiting fruit that has a high fructose content. Simple as that...for real.

A good resource for fructose content of common foods is:

http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumerinformation/nuttab2010/nuttab2010onlinesearchabledatabase/onlineversion.cfm?&action=nutrientFoods&category=Proximates&nutrientID=FRU

Providing processed sugar is completely avoided (as opposed to just limited/restricted), the individual can eat anything else that they'd like (though fructose intake should be restricted to less than or equal to 20g per day for adult male or female).

My opinion of what foods should form part of a processed sugar-free and low fructose diet leans towards quality proteins (Egg in particular, if tolerated), rotation of white meats & red meat, legumes and pulses, lots of vegetables (as bulking agents as well as vitamins and minerals), lots of fibre (>30g per day, from wholemeal bread + other if needed) and fruits (though restricting intake of high fructose fruits). This is a cost-effective way of eating.

My firm opinion is that sugar is an addictive substance, and as such, total elimination (per my opinion) isn't necessarily easy, but is necessary. Once sugar is completely eliminated (and intake of the other foods increased until person is eating until full each time) a person will start losing weight...simple as that.

By all means disagree with my opinions, though I would suggest doing so only after they have been shown not to be factual and accurate (by personal trial). I don't usually take time to discuss such matters, but I thought that I would share what I know to be true, by way of it being my firm opinion, in the event that it happens to help somebody here, should they choose to entertain my opinion.

Given that there is true RDI of zero for sugar (our body makes it as needed, so zero added sugar is necessary), there is minimal inherent risk in altering diet in accordance with what I've stated.

My sincere best wishes to anybody happening to come across this post who is obese and wishes to reduce their weight.

 

[nulla nulla]

Bloody wowsers.

Crumpets with lashings of peanut butter and coffee for breakfast; a ham and cheese sandwich, apple and another coffee for lunch; and a 600gram steak with salad or veg washed down with a bottle of reasonable red wine for dinner.

Life is about a journey. It is not a race between two points of time or wringing out every miserable skerrick you can. It is something you should enjoy. You only live once. Be happy. So what if some jumped up miserable academic says I'm obese.

 

[Smurf1976]

If it's something you feel strongly about, Smurf, maybe start a thread on binge drinking.
I don't think it's unreasonable that comments on this thread have related to attitudes to obesity, given that's what the OP was apparently on about.

The point I feel strongly about is entirely relevant to this thread which is about attitudes toward those who are overweight.

My question is why do we not appear, at least as I perceive it, to have the same negative attitudes toward those who choose to engage in other health harmful practices? Why does society target primarily the overweight (and smokers)?

Find 100 random people and put them in a group. Now take out all the overweight ones. Now take out all the cigarette smokers, binge drinkers, those who don't exercise, those who use illicit drugs and those who simply eat a poor diet.

How many will be left in the group? Well under half I'd expect. Lack of exercise alone puts a large number in the "unhealthy" group without even mentioning the other issues.

So why does society target the overweight ones whilst largely ignoring other self-inflicted health dangers? What is so bad about being overweight that is not equally bad about other health dangers?

Is, as I suspect, the real issue about aesthetics rather than health? Is it that fat people simply look ugly, whereas the same can not be said of binge drinkers, pill poppers and those who eat too much salt?

I see that question as very relevant to a thread on the subject of attitudes toward obesity. Why do we have the attitude we have in the first place, when there are so many other health issues which could reasonably attract the same attention but which are largely ignored?

My references to binge drinking were just an example of something which is unhealthy, fairly common and reasonably acceptable socially in this country. I could probably have expressed that better in the first place - my question is about society's attitudes, not drinking.