Fatso

[Julia]

Smurf, I accept that it's your perception that binge drinking is not being remarked upon to the same extent as obesity and smoking.

All I can say is that my perception is different. Presumably our environments are different and our visual and auditory inputs also different.
It's probably the first time I've ever disagreed with you.

 

[Calliope]

My question is why do we not appear, at least as I perceive it, to have the same negative attitudes toward those who choose to engage in other health harmful practices? Why does society target primarily the overweight (and smokers)?

That's an easy one Smurf. They are more visible. And if you are sitting next to one in a plane, they are more intrusive, i.e. their body parts overlap your personal space. Also in the supermarket aisles.

 

[Smurf1976]

All I can say is that my perception is different. Presumably our environments are different and our visual and auditory inputs also different.
It's probably the first time I've ever disagreed with you.

All good, we're allowed to disagree....

I think it does come down to personal experiences etc. Certainly my experience is that heavy drinking makes you some some kind of "hero" in the eyes of many and that nobody really even considers that there are any downsides beyond a hangover and things like drink driving. The idea that high levels of alcohol consumption causes cancer, heart problems etc never seems to mentioned.

And yet some of those same people wouldn't smoke even one cigarette for fear of health impacts, and wouldn't eat fast food unless they really were starving. But they'll quite likely have a binge tonight (Saturday) and think nothing of it.

It comes down to personal experiences as you say.

 

[Calliope]

These kids have plenty of attitude



And all because she is overweight and elderly.

 

[Tink]

Aaah but the new fat is called 'Curvy' now lol -- only joking.

Yep, have to agree with you there Smurf.
Have a binge tonight and clog up the emergency depts tomorrow morning.

I find drunks more intrusive than fat people, but as said, goes by experiences.



-- >not fat nor a binge drinker.

 

[McLovin]

I went to a Subway sandwich place today. The overweight girl in front of me asked the "Sandwich Artist" (yes they really call them that!) to remove some of the dough in her bread roll. As she explained to her friend with her "this will save about 90 calories". Then when she went to pay the cashier asked if she'd "like to make it a meal", which included 2 cookies, each of 200 calories -- I checked. She took her up on her offer. I have no doubt that she will be puzzled after a few weeks of "watching what she eats" and hasn't lost weight, but the proof is in the pudding, or cookie.

 

[young-gun]

I went to a Subway sandwich place today. The overweight girl in front of me asked the "Sandwich Artist" (yes they really call them that!) to remove some of the dough in her bread roll. As she explained to her friend with her "this will save about 90 calories". Then when she went to pay the cashier asked if she'd "like to make it a meal", which included 2 cookies, each of 200 calories -- I checked. She took her up on her offer. I have no doubt that she will be puzzled after a few weeks of "watching what she eats" and hasn't lost weight, but the proof is in the pudding, or cookie.

haha! it's like the ones that order huge meals from fast food chains and then insist on diet coke. perhaps they like the flavour better.

 

[chrislp]

I think it does come down to personal experiences etc. Certainly my experience is that heavy drinking makes you some some kind of "hero" in the eyes of many and that nobody really even considers that there are any downsides beyond a hangover and things like drink driving. The idea that high levels of alcohol consumption causes cancer, heart problems etc never seems to mentioned.

Some people do have legitimate medical problems which make it very hard for them to avoid weight gain. That's not the majority, but some people do have such issues and it would be wrong to discriminate against them and say that losing weight is easy etc.

I'm not obese and I'm not against alcohol.

So in a thread about fat people you are on the defensive about obesity & on the attack about alcoholism when no one had mentioned it prior.

Why are you using this line of defense?

 

[johenmo]

Attitudes are generally shaped by your environment - upbringing, social circle, etc.. Attitudes towards binge drinking are less severe than towards obesity. CanOz is right - it is part of our culture - influenced by the 6 o'clock swill, no doubt. Young guys who could drink a slab in a night were demi-gods, as smurf mentioned. I remember one guy saying years ago that you hadn't had a good night out unless you woke up with a black eye and couldn't remember what happened - and he was half serious. The days when a party wasn't complete without a keg. At 18 my social circle were occasional drinkers, unlike many of our peers.

So in a thread about fat people you are on the defensive about obesity & on the attack about alcoholism when no one had mentioned it prior. Why are you using this line of defense?

I don't equate binge drinking with alcoholism. Two different conditions/set of circumstances. Binge drinkers can go without alcohol for periods that non-recovering alcoholics can't. Sure, for some the two overlap, and always do. Young girls don't eat in order for the alcohol to have a quicker/bigger effect and fill up on cheaper booze at home before setting out. Had two girls who didn't do this but they remarked on how stupid it was - so it's not just an urban myth.

chrislp - I can't recall when an obese person overate and then decided to punch & kick the crap out of some passer-by. But I can for a drunk person. Binge drinkers would be involved with higher levels of anti-social/violent behaviour than binge eaters.

 

[chrislp]

I can't recall when an obese person overate and then decided to punch & kick the crap out of some passer-by. But I can for a drunk person. Binge drinkers would be involved with higher levels of anti-social/violent behaviour than binge eaters.

My mistake. I should have said binge drinkers as quoted by Smurf.

I would hope the binge drinking/alcoholism discussion be no longer be a part of this thread.

 

[Tink]

The article is about attitudes, and if you read the article its about a drunk yelling out about a fat guy.

Great post Johenmo.

 

[chrislp]

The article is about attitudes, and if you read the article its about a drunk yelling out about a fat guy.

No, your statement is wrong.

Read it again.

 

[johenmo]

The article is about attitudes, and if you read the article its about a drunk yelling out about a fat guy.
Great post Johenmo.

No, your statement is wrong.
Read it again.

The article is about attitudes. The drunken comment was lead-in to the article.

"...another story involving my friends and the things they scream when drunk ..."

 

[Julia]

My mistake. I should have said binge drinkers as quoted by Smurf.

I would hope the binge drinking/alcoholism discussion be no longer be a part of this thread.

The article is about attitudes, and if you read the article its about a drunk yelling out about a fat guy.

Great post Johenmo.

I thought it was about attitudes to fat people.

Smurf raised the question about whether they are disliked because of their unattractive appearance rather than the lack of self discipline. How about discussing that instead of getting sidetracked into binge drinking which should have its own thread if people want to discuss that.

I'll readily admit to disliking watching an obese person waddle along, rolls of fat falling over sweat pants.
I can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be and would think that factor alone would be enough to prompt some effort to do something about it.

 

[Smurf1976]

So in a thread about fat people you are on the defensive about obesity & on the attack about alcoholism when no one had mentioned it prior.

Why are you using this line of defense?

All I am asking is why does society commonly accept one (binge drinking) as normal and even heroic, whilst increasingly there is intolerance toward the other (obesity)?

Both carry a significant risk of ruined health, and both are avoidable. So why such a difference in attitude? What, exactly, makes being fat so much worse than doing something else which is harmful to health?

Is it, as I suspect, about aesthetics and not about health? The attitude against fat people is because of their appearance and not because it may result in a heart attack, diabetes or cancer?

I don't see that question as unreasonable given the subject of the thread although I should have made it clear that my point is about the difference in society's attitudes and that binge drinking is just an example of a non-fat behaviour which is harmful to health, reasonably common and which seems to be accepted by society.

 

[Calliope]

Is it, as I suspect, about aesthetics and not about health? The attitude against fat people is because of their appearance and not because it may result in a heart attack, diabetes or cancer?

You are spot on Smurf. The venom directed at that woman in the video in my post (#44) was solely because she is fat. If she had aesthetically acceptable looks she would not have been the butt of ridicule.

The irony is that about a sixth of the kids on the bus would have been obese.

In 2009–2010, 16.9% of U.S. children and adolescents were obese.
The prevalence of obesity was higher among adolescents than among preschool-aged children (Figure 2). The prevalence of obesity was higher among boys than girls (18.6% of boys and 15.0% of girls were obese).

And about a third of their parents would have been obese.

In 2009–2010, 35.7% of U.S. adults were obese.
More than 35% of U.S. men and women were obese in 2009–2010. There was no significant difference in prevalence between men and women at any age. Overall, adults aged 60 and over were more likely to be obese than younger adults. Among men there was no significant difference in obesity prevalence by age. Among women, however, 42.3% of those aged 60 and over were obese compared with 31.9% of women aged 20–39

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db82.htm

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Is it, as I suspect, about aesthetics and not about health? The attitude against fat people is because of their appearance and not because it may result in a heart attack, diabetes or cancer?

Interesting question, and no.

The attitude against fat people is because most fat people are depressed. And since most depressed people don't like themselves, other people will tend to have the same view. If an observer looks at a fat person and is incapable of maintaining an independent viewpoint, the fat person's attitude towards himself will be immediately reflected in the observer. So there's a hidden link there. It's like that lady on the bus who was abused by teenagers and ended up on youtube this week. Teens are very easily influenced by other's perception of themselves. Whereas an adult would say "there's a person sitting in that seat on the bus", a teen might adopt the fat person's view of herself which involves disgust and self-hatred. Emotional maturity and independence of mind are two key factors at play.

Overeating (along with fatigue and unexplained aches and pains) is a very common symptom of depression. Overeating is more than just 'comfort eating'; it's a way of generating energy when the body is depleted and exhasted. So there's no point in saying 'eat less exercise more' - that's only useful for healthy people.

Self acceptance is key.

 

[chrislp]

All I am asking is why does society commonly accept one (binge drinking) as normal and even heroic, whilst increasingly there is intolerance toward the other (obesity)?

I think aesthetics do play a large part.

Also drinking is a temporary thing while obesity is not something that disappears overnight.

 

[sptrawler]

Maybe the reaction to "fat" is a basic instinct.
If you were going to buy a horse and there were two available, one fat and one lean and muscular. You would tend to pick the later as the better horse. The same goes for any animal generally, an overweight animal projects a image of lazy and unfit, wether that is the fact is another question.
It is just a pheonomena of our affluent times where unabated eating is available, therefore we have to find ways of making it socially and morally acceptable.

 

[Julia]

It is just a pheonomena of our affluent times where unabated eating is available, therefore we have to find ways of making it socially and morally acceptable.

No, we should not accept that as the norm. Quite apart from any suggestion of aesthetic factors, the cost to the health system is immense.
So many health problems, e.g. high BP, heart disease, diabetes are largely caused by obesity and lack of exercise.

No one threw in the towel on smoking, and look how socially unacceptable that has become.