F/A vs. T/A the argument settled

[ice]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

"There is no such thing as a rich Technician"

You have the empirical evidence to support this of course?

Personally I don't know whether there is or not, but claims like this need to be substantiated if you're using them to argue your position.


ice

 

[Realist]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

"There is no such thing as a rich Technician"

You have the empirical evidence to support this of course?

Personally I don't know whether there is or not, but claims like this need to be substantiated if you're using them to argue your position.


ice

I never said it Swaeger referred to it.

I do wonder if there are many though, some will of course get lucky, there are some lotto and horse race, and casino millionaires of course.

There will be some millionaire technical traders, I doubt any billionaire though??

 

[Phoenix]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

For those of you who want to download and view it here it is.

http://www.fxcmexpo.com/video/Jack Schwager-FXCM Streaming Expo1Mbps_001.swf

Go right click - then file save as. Btw i didn't hack for this

 

[TraderPro]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

For those of you who want to download and view it here it is.

http://www.fxcmexpo.com/video/Jack Schwager-FXCM Streaming Expo1Mbps_001.swf

Go right click - then file save as. Btw i didn't hack for this

Link doesn't work - all it does is download a file that links to the real file... Macromedia Flash is getting smarter... a long time ago you can simply just download flash files and save it to your harddrive but now they've found a way to restrict that...

 

[bunyip]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

I never said it Swaeger referred to it.

I do wonder if there are many though, some will of course get lucky, there are some lotto and horse race, and casino millionaires of course.

There will be some millionaire technical traders, I doubt any billionaire though??

Poor old Realist, as usual the big expert on trading even though he doesn't trade himself, and has to go to work every day while many successful traders stay at home and earn an excellent living working less than an hour a day from the comfort of their home offices.

First he quotes Schwaeger by saying....."There is no such thing as a rich Technician, unless you count those that sell their services."

Then he agrees with Schwaeger by stating....."That I can agree with!"

Then he starts doubting himself by saying....."I do wonder if there are many though".

Then later in the very same post he changes his mind yet again by stating....
"There will be some millionaire technical traders".

Fair dinkum, is this bloke a clown or what? Every time the poor bugger opens his mouth he puts his foot in it. He just can't seem to help himself.

Bunyip

 

[tech/a]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

Experience Answers questions like these and removes the necessity to hypotherise or theorise.

Inexperience is easily detected.

 

[Sir Burr]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

http://www.fxcmexpo.com/video/Jack Schwager-FXCM Streaming Expo1Mbps_001.flv

Save that file - play it using "VLC Media Player".

As you are saving it you can still play what you have downloaded so far using VLC. Note that the file is half a GB!

Cheers

Edit: For the interested, URLSnooper2 does the trick.

 

[swingstar]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

http://www.fxcmexpo.com/video/Jack Schwager-FXCM Streaming Expo1Mbps_001.flv

Save that file - play it using "VLC Media Player".

As you are saving it you can still play what you have downloaded so far using VLC. Note that the file is half a GB!

Cheers

Edit: For the interested, URLSnooper2 does the trick.

I was going to ask how you found that... I even emailed the company and asked if they had a non-Flash version.

 

[Sir Burr]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

I was going to ask how you found that... I even emailed the company and asked if they had a non-Flash version.

Another free utility for video is SPD which records MMS streaming video.

With URLSnooper2, it requires joining up their Forum to get the free licence which is a bit of a pain! :

By the way, I'm still downloading Jacks video. With a 256 connection, it will take 6hrs or so!

 

[Julia]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

Experience Answers questions like these and removes the necessity to hypotherise or theorise.

Inexperience is easily detected.

Hello Tech

I'm sure you'd agree that inexperience of itself isn't a problem, as with newcomers asking questions which may appear silly to more experienced members?

It's Realist's tendency to combine his trading inexperience with an astonishing degree of assured, "know it all" commentary that can so irritating.

Julia

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

....couldn't get this video to run properly. Took several attempts to get it to even start then it keeps cutting out. Can you save me any further anguish and just tell us what his conclusion is???Julia

Julia, Well I can tell you it's a bit like that US religious preacher who used to broadcast, "do as I say, not necessarily as I do - with the added twist that "I'm going to give you 30 options so as not to be tied down" - And then he admits he prefers not to trade. Like the man saying to the sheepdog "ok I just whistled you - what does that mean? (dog goes chasing off the screen) - yep either come here, or go chasing kangaroos, but whatever you do don't defy me".

You can make some funny contradictions if you cut and paste bits of his speech - and present it in a different sequence.

For instance "Women make better traders than men because they are less self-opinionated and less egotistical" Apart from the fact that that is RIDICULOUS !! (sheesh next thing they'll want the vote!! ) , and before you get good vibes, he previously says that

"Some say a monkey throwing darts at the Wall Street Journal will do as well as the average investor, I disagree, I say he'll do BETTER". - allegedly because the average trader is not prepared to become uncomfortable with his predicament, whereas the monkey doesnt give a shinbone. - in the end he seems to say that

1. the monkey will do better unless the trader is uncomfortable !!.
2. a women is prbably comprabale to a monkey thrwing darts
3. I'm going to do all my trading(/investing? - for the 36,458th time) on a bed of nails from now on.
4. I'm not sure if the women also have to be uncomfortable - presumably a moderately uncomfortable woman and a seriously uncomfortable man are about equal :whip
btw, the tape lasts a long time, more that 1 hour from memory.

 

[wayneL]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

Julia, Well I can tell you it's a bit like that US religious preacher who used to broadcast, "do as I say, not necessarily as I do - with the added twist that "I'm going to give you 30 options so as not to be tied down" - And then he admits he prefers not to trade. Like the man saying to the sheepdog "ok I just whistled you - what does that mean? (dog goes chasing off the screen) - yep either come here, or go chasing kangaroos, but whatever you do don't defy me".

You can make some funny contradictions if you cut and paste bits of his speech - and present it in a different sequence.

For instance "Women make better traders than men because they are less self-opinionated and less egotistical" Apart from the fact that that is RIDICULOUS !! (sheesh next thing they'll want the vote!! ) , and before you get good vibes, he previously says that

"Some say a monkey throwing darts at the Wall Street Journal will do as well as the average investor, I disagree, I say he'll do BETTER". - allegedly because the average trader is not prepared to become uncomfortable with his predicament, whereas the monkey doesnt give a shinbone. - in the end he seems to say that the monkey will do better unless the trader is uncomfortable !!.

So I've taken his advice literally - I'm going to do all my trading(/investing? - for the 36,458th time) on a bed of nails from now on. I'm not sure if the women also have to be uncomfortable - presumably a moderately uncomfortable woman and a seriously uncomfortable man are about equal :whip
btw, the tape lasts a long time, more that 1 hour from memory.

I'm trying to figure out whether this post is satirical, ironical or sarcastic (or all three), but in any case, I don't think it represents what Schwager said for anyone but the most cynical amongst us.

I no longer ride over fences, but that doesn't preclude me from making intellegent comment about it.

Cheers

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

I'm trying to figure out whether this post is satirical, ironical or sarcastic (or all three), but in any case, I don't think it represents what Schwager said for anyone but the most cynical amongst us. I no longer ride over fences, but that doesn't preclude me from making intellegent comment about it. Cheers

PLEASE TAKE THIS AS A JOKE
Probably all 3 mate - Incidentally rather than flame any fire here, Im sure that there is a level or sarcasm that qualifies as "jest" is there not It's not as if I'm going overboard like the Chaser's War on Evrything. (yes one of my favourite shows - maybe that explains it for you)

If I said "Is anyone else noticing that it's getting hot in here ?" - now that would be about 25% satirical jest, 25% ironical jest, 25% sarcastic jest, - and 50% just an appeal for less personal criticism around here

If I said there are 3 kinds of people - those that can add up and those that can't - I guess that would be 75% satirical and 50% extremely rude to the fourth and any other kinds of people that I've forgotten.

Maybe my comment about the 34,567th time is satirical / ironical / sarcastic against you or Realist -but (no sarcasm intended)
a) I'm not sure if its against you or Realist ? - or both?
b) I didn't mean any offence, to either of you - and
c) I'm such a newbee I'm learning whatever anyone says! - like an avid tennis fan I log on and watch the tennis balls go flying back and forth.
also
d) I don't care if Realist is experienced or not - he makes as much sence as Mr Schwaeger. (imho).

You will surely agree that Schwaeger gets away with a massive number of generalities and contradictions. btw, did you hear him say those two comments I highlighted? (monkeys vs men vs women) they are in there, - believe me. Heck, jest for fun, I go on to hypothesise where they could lead. eg he literally states that a monkey with darts will do better than the average trader. - Gimme some darts and a monkey suit quick!! (sarcastic? no - jest).

Hek (also) if I'd paid any more than a few bucks to hear that speech - and I can only guess that it cost a lot more than that to sit in the audience - and unless it was a bloody good dinner thrown in - then I'd be asking for my money back. Perhaps it all went over my head.

One of the objections I had with a previous financial adviser / superannuation broker I had - where I previously had my super fund - was that there were 34,567 plans ( no satire) and the responsibility was mine to pick the best one, and - if I guessed wrong, it was my fault - suddenly decided I might as well get "in the driver's seat" with a SMSF - so far Im going backwards, but hey - I've found this great coin that seems to come down heads when it should (not like my last coin- jest) - so my luck seems to have turned. (reality)

btw wayne - you'll have to give us your opinion about riding over fences. :hide:

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

Wayne
On the subject of riding (horses I presume) over fences - I offer the following by way of appeasement :- hope you like it.
By Australia's first poet ( Adam Lindsay Gordon),

"Oh the vigour with which the air is rife !
The spirit of joyous motion;
The fever, the fullness of animal life,
Can be drained from no earthly potion!
The lungs with the living gas grow light,
and the limbs feel the strength of ten,
While the chest expands with its madd'ning might
GOD'S GLORIOUS OXYGEN.

Thus the measured stroke, on elastic sward,
Of the steed three parts extended,
Hard held, the breath of his nostrils broad,
With the golden ether blended;
Then the leap, the rise from the springing turf,
The rush through the bouyant air,
And the light shock landing - the veriest serf
Is an emporer then and there.

Ahh now THAT's my idea of poetry my friend.
PS He's probably better known for the lines about :-
"Life is mostly froth and bubble, two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, courage in your own". - bloody magic mate. :bier:

 

[wayneL]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

PLEASE TAKE THIS AS A JOKE
Probably all 3 mate - Incidentally rather than flame any fire here, Im sure that there is a level or sarcasm that qualifies as "jest" is there not It's not as if I'm going overboard like the Chaser's War on Evrything. (yes one of my favourite shows - maybe that explains it for you)

If I said "Is anyone else noticing that it's getting hot in here ?" - now that would be about 25% satirical jest, 25% ironical jest, 25% sarcastic jest, - and 50% just an appeal for less personal criticism around here

If I said there are 3 kinds of people - those that can add up and those that can't - I guess that would be 75% satirical and 50% extremely rude to the fourth and any other kinds of people that I've forgotten.

Maybe my comment about the 34,567th time is satirical / ironical / sarcastic against you or Realist -but (no sarcasm intended)
a) I'm not sure if its against you or Realist ? - or both?
b) I didn't mean any offence, to either of you - and
c) I'm such a newbee I'm learning whatever anyone says! - like an avid tennis fan I log on and watch the tennis balls go flying back and forth.
also
d) I don't care if Realist is experienced or not - he makes as much sence as Mr Schwaeger. (imho).

You will surely agree that Schwaeger gets away with a massive number of generalities and contradictions. btw, did you hear him say those two comments I highlighted? (monkeys vs men vs women) they are in there, - believe me. Heck, jest for fun, I go on to hypothesise where they could lead. eg he literally states that a monkey with darts will do better than the average trader. - Gimme some darts and a monkey suit quick!! (sarcastic? no - jest).

Hek (also) if I'd paid any more than a few bucks to hear that speech - and I can only guess that it cost a lot more than that to sit in the audience - and unless it was a bloody good dinner thrown in - then I'd be asking for my money back. Perhaps it all went over my head.

One of the objections I had with a previous financial adviser / superannuation broker I had - where I previously had my super fund - was that there were 34,567 plans ( no satire) and the responsibility was mine to pick the best one, and - if I guessed wrong, it was my fault - suddenly decided I might as well get "in the driver's seat" with a SMSF - so far Im going backwards, but hey - I've found this great coin that seems to come down heads when it should (not like my last coin- jest) - so my luck seems to have turned. (reality)

OK thanks for the clarification... and the humour, it is appreciated

But one can find contradictions in any hour long pontifications on any topic; even those beacons of consistency and conceptual integrity, our politicians.

btw wayne - you'll have to give us your opinion about riding over fences.

Well I think the popularity of George Morris has had a negative impact on the technique of our riders over big fences. I much prefer the European style. LOL

 

[swingstar]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

Just for those who haven't heard of Schwager (appears to be a few), he is probably the most well-known name in trading literature. He's been a trader for most of his career, both on the desk and as a manager. I don't know how long he's been doing the seminar route, but I think with the contacts he has, the funds he's managed, and being the author of a few best-selling books, it's safe to say he isn't doing it to get by.

The speech BTW, is pretty much a summation of what you'll read from any prominent author on trading (Tharp, Douglas, etc.), and a culmination of all the comments garnered from interviewing many successful traders.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

Wayne, here's one about man's appetite for killing animals (Lex Talionis, A moral discourse)- and the challenge to man to give them a fair fight - like one bullet - a bit like the Deerhunter - but hunting a bear outside its cave.

BTW, I think of this poem whenever I see those teeth of yours

"To beasts of the field, and fowls of the air, and fish of the sea alike,
Man's hand is ever slow to spare, and ever ready to strike;
With a licence to kill, and to work our will, In season by land or by water,
To our heart's content we may take our fill of the joys we derive from slaughter.
.........

Shall we hard hearted to their fates, thus soft hearted shrink from our own,
when the measure we meet is metred to us, when we reap as we've always sown,
Shall we who for pastime have squandered life, who are styled "the Lords of Creation",
Recoil from our chance of more equal strife , and our risk of retaliation.
....

But you've no remorseful qualms or pangs, When you kneel by the grizzly's lair,
On that conical bulllet your sole chance hangs, 'Tis the weak ones advantage fair,
And the shaggy giant's terrific fangs are ready to crush and tear.
Should you miss, one vision of home and friends, five words of unfinished prayer,
Three savage knife stabs, and so your sport ends
In the worrying grapple that chokes and rends :-
Rare sport, at least, for the bear!"

Adam Lindsay Gordon.

 

[Sir Burr]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

Finished downloading this video and have been watching it. All the sections were good. Although, I had to pause it at this little bit...

Came to where Jack asked the audience questions and the very first question from a fellow was something that has had me questioning whether day trading is for me or not.

That very first question was "is trading lonely?" Jack seemed to me a little uncomfortable and not sure how to answer it.

Anyway, the answer was p!ss poor!

He should have had his chauffeur answer that one!

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

He should have had his chauffeur answer that one!

Sir Burr, you're right. And can I ask you, did you really learn anything from that? - other than perhaps :-
the names of 125 traders whose styles have nothing in common with each other - the full gammit from chalk to cheese,
"it's hard work", "it's easy",
"how to feel warm and fuzzy about your instincts irrespective, have courage etc", "it's VERY important that you always pull the plug when you've lost x%" (where x is a number that only you can decide) "or when you've made y%",
"push your luck with respect to x and y, otherwise you'll lose in the long run", "don't push your luck",
"zen works", "zen is crazy",
"read my books", "the book/lecture circuit is the only guaranteed way to make money from trading" etc.
Sounded like a combined meeting of Gamblers Anonymous and the society of Las Vegas Casino sprukers.
My head is still spinning. Think I'd prefer to read a few share-price-predictions on this forum than go through that again. I just felt I'd spent an hour or so listening, and nothing to chaffeur it.

 

[wayneL]

Re: F/A vs T/A the argument settled

2020

Can you offer us an improvement on Jacks message?

I'm all ears.