Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

The castration process has many steps and should only be done by a person with training and experience with pigs. Male pigs are castrated using a disinfected surgical knife. A trained worker or veterinarian holds the pig and makes an incision above each testicle. The testicle is pushed through the scrotal sac.

you forgot to mention that after the sack has been cut open the testicles are ripped off by hand one by one, with no pain relief, and then the tail in cut off with clippers and the teeth are cut off also.

But yeah, the public like to think (factory) farm animals are happy.

watch from the 3.40 mark

 

[Smurf1976]

For some unknown reason people like to single out miners avoiding the excise, But it is all business that can claim it back if the aren't using it on the roads.

So in your example the diesel power generator can also claim back the excise.

At present yes and so long as that continues, or alternatively if all fuels were to be equally taxed, then all good.

There was a time when this wasn't the case, 1990's with a tax on fuel oil but not on alternatives, and some weird and not at all wonderful ideas came up since it was high enough to be a problem. Coal was being put into shipping containers, and the containers then physically tipped over, as a workaround in one instance I'm aware of.......

Back to the EV's, the only real unanswered technical question at the moment relates to how average users will charge them in practice. Theory and ideas are nice but in practice?

By that I mean the ratio of using public fast chargers versus charging at home and at what time?

There's some concern within the power industry which could basically be summarised as saying that middle of the day would be best, middle of the night would be nice too, but we can live with anything so long as it doesn't involve too many cars being charged between 5pm and 9pm.

The underlying concern there isn't about technology but about actual consumer behaviour. Not what could be done but what actually happens? To the extent there's uncertainty that's where it is.

Anyway, at home I've provisioned for future easy installation of an EV charger with some recent work. Only problem is thus far I ain't got no EV to be charging.

 

[SirRumpole]

The fact that it goes to general revenue is irrelevant, it was brought in to help fund the growing cost of roads, and people that aren't using it on the roads shouldn't have to pay the tax.

The fact that it (diesel excise) was bought in to fund roads is irrelevant, it's not being used for that purpose now, it's all general revenue, and anyway business can still claim the full cost of the fuel as a straight deduction, getting the rebate back as well is double dipping.

 

[Value Collector]

The fact that it (diesel excise) was bought in to fund roads is irrelevant, it's not being used for that purpose now, it's all general revenue, and anyway business can still claim the full cost of the fuel as a straight deduction, getting the rebate back as well is double dipping.

You can say every tax and duty goes to general revenue.

 

[SirRumpole]

You can say every tax and duty goes to general revenue.

Yes, that's the way it works.

As pointed out before, the Federal government only has one bank account into which all revenue goes. So there is no such thing as revenue that is allocated for a specific purpose.

Consolidated Revenue Fund (CRF)

The principal operating fund from which money is drawn to pay for the activities of the Government. Section 81 of the Australian Constitution provides that all revenue raised or monies received by the Executive Government forms one consolidated revenue fund from which appropriations are made for the purposes of the Australian Government.

Anyway, you don't have to worry about it , for a while anyway, so relax and enjoy your EV.

 

[Value Collector]

and anyway business can still claim the full cost of the fuel as a straight deduction, getting the rebate back as well is double dipping.

There is a massive difference between getting money you have paid out refunded to you, and being able to claim money you have paid out as a tax deduction.

If You pay me $100, and later I refund you that $100 you get that full $100 back.

However, if you give me $100 and later claim that $100 as a tax deduction, you don’t ever get the $100 back, you just don’t have to pay tax on that $100.

 

[bi-polar]

Do MPs get rebate for castration ?

 

[rederob]

Back to the EV's, the only real unanswered technical question at the moment relates to how average users will charge them in practice. Theory and ideas are nice but in practice?

The only reason you go to a petrol station is because you do not have petrol on tap at home.
If you are worker, it's not that convenient filling up on the way to work, and it delays getting home on the way back. Go home and plug in your EV.
Given the average kilometres travelled by the average car owner, charging stations will only be used as exceptions.
Commercial travellers/tradies, etc will be a different kettle of fish. However, even in the days that I racked up an average of 1000km/week, I would still have been able to avoid charging stations as it would have been unusual to do more than 300km in any one day. That said, by the time commercial travellers are using EVs, range anxiety will probably be a thing of the past - battery technology and vehicle efficiencies continue to improve.
At a practical level, the incremental addition of EVs only becomes problematic if demand from recharging reaches a level where overnight charging capacity would be exceeded. However, as the increase in demand will be incremental, electricity generators/distributors will have time to develop mechanisms/strategies (eg. appropriate tariffs/charging times) to cope.

 

[Smurf1976]

The only reason you go to a petrol station is because you do not have petrol on tap at home.
If you are worker, it's not that convenient filling up on the way to work, and it delays getting home on the way back. Go home and plug in your EV.
Given the average kilometres travelled by the average car owner, charging stations will only be used as exceptions.

As a concept certainly.

Where the devil may arise is in the detail.

Eg I park my car in a garage and will have no problem charging an EV.

My neighbour on one side will need to run a two leads from the house outside to charge their cars and one of those will necessarily cross the path of the other car. They could install a power point on a pole or something like that as an alternative but that won't be cheap given it means crossing a concrete driveway.

Now, will the neighbour actually do this? Or will they see it as more convenient to simply use a "service station" and charge the car there?

And what about those who need to run the lead across a footpath because the car's parked on the street? There are whole suburbs where that's literally every house.

Etc.

It's not my intent to be negative toward EV's, I'm just pointing out the presently unanswered questions surrounding it all. That sort of thing is the big unknown at this stage. Nobody seems too sure if this sort of thing is going to affect 1% of users or if it's 50%.

However, as the increase in demand will be incremental, electricity generators/distributors will have time to develop mechanisms/strategies (eg. appropriate tariffs/charging times) to cope.

Technically yes - just keep the politicians and other obstacle placers well away from it......

 

[sptrawler]

That's 5% of income , $1hour basic.
$6 hr Newstart single gets 30 cents.

In Portugal, Spain and most South American countries, the single who doesn't work gets FA, and some of these Countries still produce cars.

 

[sptrawler]

Do MPs get rebate for castration ?

Only if they can produce evidence of the castration. then claim medicare rebate.

 

[SirRumpole]

I wonder if parking stations will jump on the bandwagon by installing charging outlets . Shoppers usually spend more than the 40 minutes charging time in the shops and all day car parks would have no problems.

 

[sptrawler]

The only reason you go to a petrol station is because you do not have petrol on tap at home.
If you are worker, it's not that convenient filling up on the way to work, and it delays getting home on the way back. Go home and plug in your EV.
Given the average kilometres travelled by the average car owner, charging stations will only be used as exceptions.
Commercial travellers/tradies, etc will be a different kettle of fish. However, even in the days that I racked up an average of 1000km/week, I would still have been able to avoid charging stations as it would have been unusual to do more than 300km in any one day. That said, by the time commercial travellers are using EVs, range anxiety will probably be a thing of the past - battery technology and vehicle efficiencies continue to improve.
At a practical level, the incremental addition of EVs only becomes problematic if demand from recharging reaches a level where overnight charging capacity would be exceeded. However, as the increase in demand will be incremental, electricity generators/distributors will have time to develop mechanisms/strategies (eg. appropriate tariffs/charging times) to cope.

If people use their car to go to work, they will be charging overnight, if they charge at peak times(16.00-21.00) they add to the current problem.
If they can't discharge their batteries into the grid at peak times(16.00-21.00), they don't alleviate the current problem.
So the current peak demand problem still exists.

 

[sptrawler]

I wonder if parking stations will jump on the bandwagon by installing charging outlets . Shoppers usually spend more than the 40 minutes charging time in the shops and all day car parks would have no problems.

They will do for sure, but the Government wont get any excise from that, unless the Government make the charging stations licensed.

 

[Smurf1976]

I wonder if parking stations will jump on the bandwagon by installing charging outlets . Shoppers usually spend more than the 40 minutes charging time in the shops and all day car parks would have no problems.

I've seen them in the UK and I've spotted some in NSW so there are certainly some who are thinking that way.

 

[sptrawler]

I've seen them in the UK and I've spotted some in NSW so there are certainly some who are thinking that way.

The problem is, as far as I know, there is no charging voltage or pin configuration standard, which just brings back the problem of the early days of mobile phones and the multiple charger problems.

 

[Smurf1976]

If people use their car to go to work, they will be charging overnight, if they charge at peak times(16.00-21.00) they add to the current problem.
If they can't discharge their batteries into the grid at peak times(16.00-21.00), they don't alleviate the current problem.
So the current peak demand problem still exists.

That's the concern and noting the political difficulty in addressing any such issues which introduces an administrative lead time that's usually a fair bit longer than the time to design, plan and implement anything physically.

There's some eagerness to "jump early" as a result.

 

[sptrawler]

That's the concern and noting the political difficulty in addressing any such issues which introduces an administrative lead time that's usually a fair bit longer than the time to design, plan and implement anything physically.

There's some eagerness to "jump early" as a result.

I think it needs to be addressed first, actually i'm going around the corner to Andrew Hastie's office and mentioning it, next time I'm sober.

 

[rederob]

As a concept certainly.

Where the devil may arise is in the detail.

Eg I park my car in a garage and will have no problem charging an EV.

My neighbour on one side will need to run a two leads from the house outside to charge their cars and one of those will necessarily cross the path of the other car. They could install a power point on a pole or something like that as an alternative but that won't be cheap given it means crossing a concrete driveway.

Now, will the neighbour actually do this? Or will they see it as more convenient to simply use a "service station" and charge the car there?

And what about those who need to run the lead across a footpath because the car's parked on the street? There are whole suburbs where that's literally every house.

Etc.

It's not my intent to be negative toward EV's, I'm just pointing out the presently unanswered questions surrounding it all. That sort of thing is the big unknown at this stage. Nobody seems too sure if this sort of thing is going to affect 1% of users or if it's 50%.



Technically yes - just keep the politicians and other obstacle placers well away from it......

I never doubted some impracticalities might arise, but let's not assume there cannot be a sensible response to them.
Where, for example there is only on street parking available to home owners, owners of EVs TODAY would be well aware that it was going to be an issue and have contingency plans.
My suspicion is that most suburban Australians living in detached/semi detached homes will be unaffected. I know that it would, today, be an issue for a greater number of unit dwellers.
But as EV ownership right now is microscopic, pre-emptory problems can become the subject of prospective solutions, with very long lead times.
My suspicion is that if you can today afford an EV, you are not likely to need to worry about extension cords or double adapters .

 

[Value Collector]

I never doubted some impracticalities might arise, but let's not assume there cannot be a sensible response to them.
Where, for example there is only on street parking available to home owners, owners of EVs TODAY would be well aware that it was going to be an issue and have contingency plans.
My suspicion is that most suburban Australians living in detached/semi detached homes will be unaffected. I know that it would, today, be an issue for a greater number of unit dwellers.
But as EV ownership right now is microscopic, pre-emptory problems can become the subject of prospective solutions, with very long lead times.
My suspicion is that if you can today afford an EV, you are not likely to need to worry about extension cords or double adapters .

You are right EV's won't suit everyone at the moment, they will only suit 99% of people as of today.

As for people that don't have a place to charge at home, these people also aren't likely to have a petrel station at home either, so are probably already visiting a fuel station every 7-9 days, all they would have to do is visit a public charger of power point instead of a petrel station once a week.

and charging stations are becoming more common than you think.