Electric cars?

[qldfrog]

It is inevitable IMO.

Yes as 80% of Australians are now city dwellers, their pretend at driving utes with rail lights and bull bars to go and get bogged once a year in Fraser island is ridiculous.
So micro cars should become more popular.and that makes sense and i favor this
Note i have driving lights and bull bar but i live on a farm and not in a suburb.
So to favour deficient to usage EV technology, we will be sacrificed thru legislation and standards.
EVs are sadly one of the tool

I know the aim is to empty the country so am scared for us, country people being pushed away from our tools :guns, herbicides, vehicles , tractors and dozers even land so that the huge transfer of the land back to the government via NP and Aboriginal communities happens.
It also .eans less food..and a move here but also in EU and the US.
And less food means misery.
I left this morning 500km west of Brisbane and the nearest point i could have hope had a EV charger was reaching the Bruce near Gympie a good 400km after departure..not an EV possible trip...

 

[JohnDe]

Yes as 80% of Australians are now city dwellers, their pretend at driving utes with rail lights and bull bars to go and get bogged once a year in Fraser island is ridiculous.
So micro cars should become more popular.and that makes sense and i favor this
Note i have driving lights and bull bar but i live on a farm and not in a suburb.
So to favour deficient to usage EV technology, we will be sacrificed thru legislation and standards.
EVs are sadly one of the tool

I know the aim is to empty the country so am scared for us, country people being pushed away from our tools :guns, herbicides, vehicles , tractors and dozers even land so that the huge transfer of the land back to the government via NP and Aboriginal communities happens.
It also .eans less food..and a move here but also in EU and the US.
And less food means misery.
I left this morning 500km west of Brisbane and the nearest point i could have hope had a EV charger was reaching the Bruce near Gympie a good 400km after departure..not an EV possible trip...

It has been like that for a century. The youth want to explore and broaden their life skills, so they leave to find adventure and new ideas. a few come back, but most get caught up in a new life. The circle of life, but things have slowly changed with families in cities looking at a new life in the country.

Moving out of cities

When conducting analysis on migration at the capital city level, we can look at the population who move in and out of Capital City Statistical Areas (GCCSA) and the Statistical Areas Level 4 (SA4s) GCCSAs are built from. This excludes arrivals, departures and net movements of people who changed address within the GCCSA or SA4.

Over the five year period to 2021, there was a net loss of 160,100 people from Australia’s capital cities. This was a significantly greater loss than the last two Census periods. In 2016 and 2011 there was a net loss of 43,100 people and 72,200 people, respectively over the five year period before the Census. The net loss in 2021 was the result of 835,000 arrivals (up from 774,300 people in 2016) and 995,100 departures (up from 817,400 people in 2016) to capital city areas.

Between 2016 and 2021, Greater Brisbane gained the greatest number of people through net internal migration (+54,400) which represented 2.2% of its total population. This area includes Brisbane as well as Ipswich, Logan and Moreton Bay but does not include the other large cities in Southeast Queensland such as the Gold Coast and the Sunshine Coast.

 

[sptrawler]

I left this morning 500km west of Brisbane and the nearest point i could have hope had a EV charger was reaching the Bruce near Gympie a good 400km after departure..not an EV possible trip...

The thing is, how often do most city dwellers do trips like that? Once a year, maybe.
I actually thought about that issue when I bought the E.V, as we do like travelling. But then I think back to my last trip to Queensland and Tasmania, We flew into Brisbane, rented a car drove, Rockhampton, Longreach, Winton, Hughenden, Townsville, Cairns and then flew back to Perth from there. Same in Tasmania, rented a car Hobart to Hobart 4 weeks travelling around.

Most people in Australia, live in or close to Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth, about 85% of Australians live in major cities.

The thing I have found in my 3 month ownership, jumping in the E.V and driving it, I'm not thinking when do I need to put diesel in and how long before I need to dump the oil and filter. I agree the E.V wont be for everyone, but I've done 3,500km and I've paid $2.28 for charging at public charging infrastructure.

At the local shopping centre they have free E.V charging, when we go shopping we just plug it in and it puts in about 10% of my charge per hour which is what I use driving from one house to the other.

At both my places I have solar panels, I look at what the inverter is putting out and set the charger at that charge rate.
If someone can manage with an E.V and has their own solar, I think they are a good option, but obviously they wont suit everyone.

 

[qldfrog]

The thing is, how often do most city dwellers do trips like that? Once a year, maybe.
I actually thought about that issue when I bought the E.V, as we do like travelling. But then I think back to my last trip to Queensland and Tasmania, We flew into Brisbane, rented a car drove, Rockhampton, Longreach, Winton, Hughenden, Townsville, Cairns and then flew back to Perth from there. Same in Tasmania, rented a car Hobart to Hobart 4 weeks travelling around.

Most people in Australia, live in or close to Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth, about 85% of Australians live in major cities.

The thing I have found in my 3 month ownership, jumping in the E.V and driving it, I'm not thinking when do I need to put diesel in and how long before I need to dump the oil and filter. I agree the E.V wont be for everyone, but I've done 3,500km and I've paid $2.28 for charging at public charging infrastructure.

At the local shopping centre they have free E.V charging, when we go shopping we just plug it in and it puts in about 10% of my charge per hour which is what I use driving from one house to the other.

At both my places I have solar panels, I look at what the inverter is putting out and set the charger at that charge rate.
If someone can manage with an E.V and has their own solar, I think they are a good option, but obviously they wont suit everyone.

And the reason i hope to get an EV..but as a second car to do shopping and mail run.
It is still a rich boy toy:
Even considering 0 cost for charging ever, the breakeven for an MG EV vs same MG ice is roughly 20y.and by that time.the battery will have long been gone.absutely no economic sense
25y with petrol unleaded at 2$ plus so was really harsh on ice figures and was putting higher petrol price, price which could allow syn fuel wo pb.
And this includes service cost etc etc whereas all the Battery and solar panels etc were given free to the EV version calculation.
No EV makes sense for usual retail user..nor that it needs to as the Reset wants you not to have a car..and EV then becomes worthwhile if shared.
Well only if age is the key factor in battery aging, not just cycles....
Anyway i hope getting a small byd runabout in the coming year(s)

 

[JohnDe]

And the reason i hope to get an EV..but as a second car to do shopping and mail run.
It is still a rich boy toy:
Even considering 0 cost for charging ever, the breakeven for an MG EV vs same MG ice is roughly 20y.and by that time.the battery will have long been gone.absutely no economic sense
25y with petrol unleaded at 2$ plus so was really harsh on ice figures and was putting higher petrol price, price which could allow syn fuel wo pb.
And this includes service cost etc etc whereas all the Battery and solar panels etc were given free to the EV version calculation.
No EV makes sense for usual retail user..nor that it needs to as the Reset wants you not to have a car..and EV then becomes worthwhile if shared.
Well only if age is the key factor in battery aging, not just cycles....
Anyway i hope getting a small byd runabout in the coming year(s)

Can you share the figures & calculations please.

 

[mullokintyre]

It would seem that the logarithmic increases in EV's may have plateaued, and for the medium term at least, decrease.
From Daily mail

Makers of electric cars are slowing down UK production as the vehicles are too expensive for many motorists.
It is now expected that the UK will produce 280,000 fully electric cars and vans in 2025, down from previous estimates of 360,000.
The forecast means only a quarter of car output will be electric within the next two years, lower than prior forecasts of more than a third.
In its latest report, the Advanced Propulsion Centre, which provides taxpayer funding to makers of zero-emissions vehicles, said the ‘uncertain economy’ was expected to push drivers towards cheaper car models for a longer period.
It added that the phenomenon was not unique to the UK, with electric vehicle production across Europe predicted to be 12 million, 1 million less than previous estimates.
The slowdown comes as prospective buyers see their budgets hammered by the cost of living squeeze and inflation.
Declining production threatens to scupper a key government plan to cut greenhouse gas emissions, with the UK set to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030.
The APC added a recovery in sales for 2030 was now ‘uncertain’ due to ongoing supply chain issues, particularly of lithium, a key ingredient in electric car batteries, as well as political tensions across the globe.
A production slowdown has already begun in the UK’s zero-emission car industry, with BMW announcing in October that it would stop production of the electric Mini at its plant in Oxford in order to ship the operation to China. And Jaguar has yet to provide further details on plans to become fully electric by 2025.
Concerns about costs were flagged earlier this week by the RAC, which revealed the average cost of charging an electric car had jumped by 58 per cent since last May.
Meanwhile, councils are plotting double digit rises in parking fees as they scramble for cash.
Charges will increase by around 10 per cent from April in areas including York, Southend, Thanet and Waltham Forest. An all-day ticket in Dudley will shoot up by 43 per cent to £5 and fees will rise by 29 per cent at the most popular sites in Cornwall, to £2.20 an hour.
Local authorities have defended the rises, saying they are under severe financial pressure, but others fear higher parking fees will hit town centre businesses.

This might be a bonus for OZ in that British cars are RHD, so we may get an increased supply.
Some of the reasons for the slowdown ill also affect ICE cars, namely the council increases in parking fees, the idea that people are not allowed to travel outside a 15 minute zone from their hone that is being promoted in some Cities (Birmingham, Oxford are two that i know of).
Mick

 

[qldfrog]

15 minutes gilded jail for the peons as per WEF Reset

The surprising stickiness of the “15-minute city”

Prior to the pandemic, few planners would have taken seriously the idea that “home” become the central organizing factor of all urban planning.

www.weforum.org

Victoria is leading the move here

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.planmelbourne.vic.gov.au/current-projects/20-minute-neighbourhoods&ved=2ahUKEwjM76X8y8v8AhVC0nMBHS6AAyQQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3hUsxyWguxGYw_goLcvueF

And in such cities a fleet of shared automated self driven EVs are perfect making forced compliance so easy to achieve seamlessly.
So the EV pushed and favoured

 

[Smurf1976]

Not an electric car but an electric ship.

To be built in Australia too.

Incat poised to deliver the world’s largest, zero emissions, lightweight ferry - INCAT

Incat Tasmania is currently in discussions to deliver the world’s first large, lightweight, zero emissions ferry. Amongst vessels under construction at the... READ MORE

incat.com.au

Incat Group Chairman and Founder Robert Clifford said “the customer wants this to happen, Incat wants this to happen, and whilst there are matters to be finalised, I am extremely confident that Incat can deliver this ground-breaking ship. In my experience unless we see something come in from left field, this is a ‘done deal’.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes as 80% of Australians are now city dwellers, their pretend at driving utes with rail lights and bull bars to go and get bogged once a year in Fraser island is ridiculous.
So micro cars should become more popular.and that makes sense and i favor this
Note i have driving lights and bull bar but i live on a farm and not in a suburb.
So to favour deficient to usage EV technology, we will be sacrificed thru legislation and standards.
EVs are sadly one of the tool

I know the aim is to empty the country so am scared for us, country people being pushed away from our tools :guns, herbicides, vehicles , tractors and dozers even land so that the huge transfer of the land back to the government via NP and Aboriginal communities happens.
It also .eans less food..and a move here but also in EU and the US.
And less food means misery.
I left this morning 500km west of Brisbane and the nearest point i could have hope had a EV charger was reaching the Bruce near Gympie a good 400km after departure..not an EV possible trip...

And the reason i hope to get an EV..but as a second car to do shopping and mail run.
It is still a rich boy toy:
Even considering 0 cost for charging ever, the breakeven for an MG EV vs same MG ice is roughly 20y.and by that time.the battery will have long been gone.absutely no economic sense
25y with petrol unleaded at 2$ plus so was really harsh on ice figures and was putting higher petrol price, price which could allow syn fuel wo pb.
And this includes service cost etc etc whereas all the Battery and solar panels etc were given free to the EV version calculation.
No EV makes sense for usual retail user..nor that it needs to as the Reset wants you not to have a car..and EV then becomes worthwhile if shared.
Well only if age is the key factor in battery aging, not just cycles....
Anyway i hope getting a small byd runabout in the coming year(s)

I am not sure which direction you are from Gympie, but there are fast chargers all the way from cairns to Brisbane, if you are west of Gympie the get a bit sparse but they will come.

Did you factor in the lower maintenance costs?

Based on the figures I ran Taking in to consideration both lower fuels costs and lower maintenance a model 3 saves the owner about $75,000 over its life compared to an ICE car, which is far more than the additional say $20 K you have to spend vs a similar class car.

 

[JohnDe]

An electric powered ferry carrying your EV

Aust firm building biggest electric ferry​

Story by Jennifer Dudley-Nicholson ​

​

An Australian firm is building what could be the world's largest electric ferry, designed to transport thousands of passengers and vehicles in a development that could set a worldwide trend.​

​

An Australian firm is building a huge electric ferry capable of carrying more than 2000 passengers. © PR HANDOUT IMAGE PHOTO​

​

The company behind the vessel, Incat Tasmania, has revealed the technology could be announced for use on Sydney Harbour in the next year.​

​

The news comes months after an Australian inquiry identified battery-powered ferries as a way to cut transport emissions and costs, while warning the craft were still in "a developmental phase".​

​

Incat Group founder Robert Clifford said the company planned to launch the world's first 130-metre electric ferry in 2025 after developing the vessel for South American firm Buquebus.​

​

The ship, which will carry 2100 passengers and 226 vehicles between Argentina and Uruguay, was originally designed to run on liquefied natural gas (LNG).​

​

But Mr Clifford said its future owner had second thoughts about using the fuel due to environmental concerns and public perception.​

​

"In the owner's words, in three years time LNG will not be very popular – it will be like a dead horse," he said.​

​

"Instead they'll get a very quiet, environmentally friendly ship and they'll be seen to be doing the right thing all around."​

​

Powering the ship with electricity required a significant redesign, Mr Clifford said, and the company would replace "500 tonnes of machinery and fuel tanks" with 400 tonnes of batteries.​

​

But he said using aluminium rather than steel to build the ship would halve its potential weight, and battery-powered ferries would not come at an additional cost to traditional vessels.​

​

"We believe the future market is electric, particularly for voyages of less than 100 miles, which is most of our ships. The batteries are getting better every day, they're getting more efficient, and where 100 miles might be the limit today it won't be long before 200 miles is the limit," he said.​

​

"We are talking to operators on Sydney Harbour at the moment for electric ships. You'll hear news about that in the next year or so."​

​

Two small electric passenger ferries currently operate between Barangaroo and Pyrmont in Sydney, saving 40,0000 litres of diesel fuel each year, but electric ferries are more common in other countries.​

​

Norway operates a fleet of 70 zero-emission ferries, Denmark launched the world's first 60-metre electric ferry in 2019, and New Zealand is planning to launch locally made battery-powered ferries in 2024.​

​

A NSW transport inquiry into the technology late last year found electric ferries could significantly reduce carbon emissions and diesel pollution, as well as cutting energy costs by up to 70 per cent.​

​

But the probe also found the ships presented "significant technological and operational challenges" for the state, including the development of recharging facilities at ports, and would require further planning before a widespread rollout.​

 

[sptrawler]

The electric ferries are a growth story, I went on a passenger one in Norway a few years back, but the Incat one is another step up in size.

 

[sptrawler]

Big cars, big batteries, big bucks.

First electric people mover with 800km range rolls off production line

Electric People Mover with 800 km range rolls off the production line and showcases new battery technology with 1,000 km range.

thedriven.io

 

[farmerge]

An electric powered ferry carrying your EV

Aust firm building biggest electric ferry​

Story by Jennifer Dudley-Nicholson ​

​

An Australian firm is building what could be the world's largest electric ferry, designed to transport thousands of passengers and vehicles in a development that could set a worldwide trend.​

​

View attachment 151794

An Australian firm is building a huge electric ferry capable of carrying more than 2000 passengers. © PR HANDOUT IMAGE PHOTO​

​

The company behind the vessel, Incat Tasmania, has revealed the technology could be announced for use on Sydney Harbour in the next year.​

​

The news comes months after an Australian inquiry identified battery-powered ferries as a way to cut transport emissions and costs, while warning the craft were still in "a developmental phase".​

​

Incat Group founder Robert Clifford said the company planned to launch the world's first 130-metre electric ferry in 2025 after developing the vessel for South American firm Buquebus.​

​

The ship, which will carry 2100 passengers and 226 vehicles between Argentina and Uruguay, was originally designed to run on liquefied natural gas (LNG).​

​

But Mr Clifford said its future owner had second thoughts about using the fuel due to environmental concerns and public perception.​

​

"In the owner's words, in three years time LNG will not be very popular – it will be like a dead horse," he said.​

​

"Instead they'll get a very quiet, environmentally friendly ship and they'll be seen to be doing the right thing all around."​

​

Powering the ship with electricity required a significant redesign, Mr Clifford said, and the company would replace "500 tonnes of machinery and fuel tanks" with 400 tonnes of batteries.​

​

But he said using aluminium rather than steel to build the ship would halve its potential weight, and battery-powered ferries would not come at an additional cost to traditional vessels.​

​

"We believe the future market is electric, particularly for voyages of less than 100 miles, which is most of our ships. The batteries are getting better every day, they're getting more efficient, and where 100 miles might be the limit today it won't be long before 200 miles is the limit," he said.​

​

"We are talking to operators on Sydney Harbour at the moment for electric ships. You'll hear news about that in the next year or so."​

​

Two small electric passenger ferries currently operate between Barangaroo and Pyrmont in Sydney, saving 40,0000 litres of diesel fuel each year, but electric ferries are more common in other countries.​

​

Norway operates a fleet of 70 zero-emission ferries, Denmark launched the world's first 60-metre electric ferry in 2019, and New Zealand is planning to launch locally made battery-powered ferries in 2024.​

​

A NSW transport inquiry into the technology late last year found electric ferries could significantly reduce carbon emissions and diesel pollution, as well as cutting energy costs by up to 70 per cent.​

​

But the probe also found the ships presented "significant technological and operational challenges" for the state, including the development of recharging facilities at ports, and would require further planning before a widespread rollout.​

Good evening JohnDe
A most interesting article and one that should excite most people. But the thought that occurs to me will the re-charging of the battery bank come from a diesel or coal fired power station?

 

[JohnDe]

Good evening JohnDe
A most interesting article and one that should excite most people. But the thought that occurs to me will the re-charging of the battery bank come from a diesel or coal fired power station?

I'm not sure. How many coal or gas fired power stations are there in Tasmania and NSW? Besides that, what is the issue?

 

[sptrawler]

Hopefully this isn't just a Govt funded scam, but an actual business venture, it could be the start of something big IMO.

Geelong to be home to Australia's largest electric-car battery plant

The country's largest electric-car battery plant will begin construction in Geelong this year.

www.drive.com.au

Australia no longer manufactures cars, but local factories could soon be playing a key part in the burgeoning electric-vehicle industry.
US-based company Recharge Industries has announced it plans to build Australia's first large-scale electric-car battery plant, and says it has tasked engineering consultancy firm Accenture to help build the facility at Geelong's Avalon Airport, as first reported by The Driven.
Located an hour south-west of Melbourne, Recharge Industries says the factory will produce up to 30 gigawatt hours (GWh) of batteries annually by the end of this decade, with the company expecting to employ between 1500 and 2000 workers.

While the battery factory – if it is built – will be the largest in the country, would not be the first.
In 2021, Energy Renaissance's Newcastle facility opened, producing approximately 1.02GWh of storage capacity each year.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm surprised something hasn't been done about this issue already, using phones in cars has been made illegal because it distracts people from watching the road, yet having all the essential driver information in the centre of the car is ok according to the Australian design rules.
It just seems like a contradiction to me.

Big infotainment screens in cars won't last – BMW boss predicts safety backlash

The global boss of BMW believes giant in-car infotainment screens could disappear within a decade due to their potential to distract drivers.

www.drive.com.au

Gigantic hi-tech infotainment screens could vanish from new cars within a decade, according to the CEO of BMW, Oliver Zipse.
The BMW executive warned they are a potential safety hazard.
“Driver distraction is the main source of accidents, not fast driving,” Mr Zipse told international media during a briefing at the Consumer Electronics Show in the US, reported by Automotive News..
The BMW executive said he is “absolutely convinced” the screens in the centre of dashboard, that require drivers to look away from the road, will soon be history.
“In 10 years, that is gone,” Zipse told US media.
Mr Zipse also believes the decision on eliminating distracting screens will not be made by consumers, but by legislators and safety authorities.

 

[qldfrog]

Hopefully this isn't just a Govt funded scam, but an actual business venture, it could be the start of something big IMO.

Geelong to be home to Australia's largest electric-car battery plant

The country's largest electric-car battery plant will begin construction in Geelong this year.

www.drive.com.au

Australia no longer manufactures cars, but local factories could soon be playing a key part in the burgeoning electric-vehicle industry.
US-based company Recharge Industries has announced it plans to build Australia's first large-scale electric-car battery plant, and says it has tasked engineering consultancy firm Accenture to help build the facility at Geelong's Avalon Airport, as first reported by The Driven.
Located an hour south-west of Melbourne, Recharge Industries says the factory will produce up to 30 gigawatt hours (GWh) of batteries annually by the end of this decade, with the company expecting to employ between 1500 and 2000 workers.

While the battery factory – if it is built – will be the largest in the country, would not be the first.
In 2021, Energy Renaissance's Newcastle facility opened, producing approximately 1.02GWh of storage capacity each year.

And our premier in qld opening one too
Taxpayer funded mashborg....a bit like DV aboriginal mobile app development....woke economics I am afraid

 

[JohnDe]

And our premier in qld opening one too
Taxpayer funded mashborg....a bit like DV aboriginal mobile app development....woke economics I am afraid

I hear & read that terminology 'woke' quite a lot lately. I'm not sure what it means, I'm not even sure that those that use it know.

past participle: awoken

1. stop sleeping; wake from sleep.
   "she awoke to find the streets covered in snow"
   
   Similar:
   wake (up), awaken, stir, come to, come round, bestir oneself, show signs of life
   

Maybe it means that people are waking up from having the wool pulled over their eyes by the boomer generation.

 

[JohnDe]

And our premier in qld opening one too
Taxpayer funded mashborg....a bit like DV aboriginal mobile app development....woke economics I am afraid

I hear & read that terminology 'woke' quite a lot lately. I'm not sure what it means, I'm not even sure that those that use it know.

past participle: awoken

1. stop sleeping; wake from sleep.
   "she awoke to find the streets covered in snow"
   
   Similar:
   wake (up), awaken, stir, come to, come round, bestir oneself, show signs of life

Maybe it means that people are waking up from having the wool pulled over their eyes by the boomer generation.

I decided to look up the meaning -

Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination"

 

[farmerge]

I'm not sure. How many coal or gas fired power stations are there in Tasmania and NSW? Besides that, what is the issue?

Just thinking how much electricity is needed to re-charge such a large battery bank. Is it power saving on one hand and using more to charge the batteries.