Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.9%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.8%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.9%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.2%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    196
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Ann said:
If they are this flammable I would be very concerned about having big banks of lithium batteries in my home, also I am not all that excited by EVs now if they are going to ignite so violently.
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My thought is that with sufficient production and operating experience the hazards could likely be mitigated by design improvements. Clearly that hasn't been achieved yet but I don't see any fundamental reason why it couldn't be.

Diesel is somewhat safe, it just burns and it's not overly easy to ignite, but the explosive force of a full tank of petrol or LPG mixed with air is enough to bring a decent sized building down. And yet we have millions of cars carrying exactly that and with very few incidents involving a fuel explosion or even fire.

Over the years some highly dangerous petrol powered cars did exist, they'd burst into flames quite easily in an accident, and some of the earlier gas powered buses had a tendency to randomly burst into flames in normal use (has happened in Australia more than once) but the knowledge gained was applied to future vehicles to avoid that problem. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
My thought is that with sufficient production and operating experience the hazards could likely be mitigated by design improvements. Clearly that hasn't been achieved yet but I don't see any fundamental reason why it couldn't be.

Diesel is somewhat safe, it just burns and it's not overly easy to ignite, but the explosive force of a full tank of petrol or LPG mixed with air is enough to bring a decent sized building down. And yet we have millions of cars carrying exactly that and with very few incidents involving a fuel explosion or even fire.

Over the years some highly dangerous petrol powered cars did exist, they'd burst into flames quite easily in an accident, and some of the earlier gas powered buses had a tendency to randomly burst into flames in normal use (has happened in Australia more than once) but the knowledge gained was applied to future vehicles to avoid that problem. :2twocents
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Yes, actually using something tends to be the only way to find the flaws. I think I might just sit back for a while and let them sort it.
I have seen more than one VW burst into flames in the past. One reason I never bought a bug, even though I was taught and got my driver's license in one.

SirRumpole said:
Didn't a few lithium batteries in computers burst into flame in the past ?

I know it's dangerous to overcharge them, but other factors can cause them to explode.

https://www.howtogeek.com/338762/why-do-lithium-ion-batteries-explode/
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So if the anode and cathode touch (as could happen if the battery is damaged in an accident then there can be negative consequences. Interesting thank you for the link that explains it. Unlikely for a fixed stationary bank of batteries in a house to explode but a far greater risk with something which is at risk of collision, as in an EV.
 
SirRumpole said:
This is April 1 isn't it ?
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Absolutely and the brilliance of this is that Origin Energy will be able to take some of these potatoes with them when they go to the sun.

That was Origin’s April Fool’s Day prank for those not aware - they’re going to go to the sun and bring a piece of it back to Earth as the obvious solution to all energy supply problems.
 
At least the debate is starting to take a form, which is a good start, there is nothing worse than heading down the wrong track.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/moto...s/news-story/a21180eb4af6c24d6257a6542195dd03

Some of the issues raised, we have discussed on this forum :

Counted among the report’s 17 recommendations are development of electric infrastructure to meet the requirements of battery-powered vehicles, and ensuring electricity generation will meet anticipated demand.
Providing standardised public charging infrastructure.
Subsidies for zero-emission vehicles.
Phasing out petrol and diesel vehicles over the long term.
Mass transit vehicles such as buses and trains are tipped to do the bulk of transportation in the future, with smaller vehicles such as autonomous shuttles or ride-sharing cars looking after “last mile” requirements at the start and end of an individual’s journey.
 
moXJO said:
I'm still a fan of hydrogen cars for this country.
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So am I, we are in a position, where we can just about go straight to hydrogen for transport.
Rather than starting down the battery track and all the associated infrastructure, then having to deal with old batteries and then moving people from battery cars to fuel cell cars.
It will be the same mess, as trying to move people from fossil fuel cars to battery cars.
If we are going to put charging/filling infrastructure all over Australia, IMO it would be best to go straight to hydrogen over the next 10-20 years.
This is where politicians making the decision based on vote catching, rather than sound technical and long term economic efficiencies, becomes a problem as usual. IMO
 
sptrawler said:
So am I, we are in a position, where we can just about go straight to hydrogen for transport.
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I don't see that we have any choice.

It's like computer operating systems or mobile phone networks. If the rest of the world decides up on Win 10 and 5G then that's what we're going to do. Same with cars, if the rest of the world goes battery then so are we, if they go hydrogen then so must we.

Reason being simply that we don't manufacture any of this stuff ourselves these days so whichever system others use is the one we'll have to use.

It's a Beta / VHS situation really. Regardless of which is best, it's the one that everyone else uses that you want to have.

Only way I can see Australia having a choice is if both systems are widely adopted in other countries where they drive on the left hand side of the road as we do. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
I don't see that we have any choice.

It's like computer operating systems or mobile phone networks. If the rest of the world decides up on Win 10 and 5G then that's what we're going to do. Same with cars, if the rest of the world goes battery then so are we, if they go hydrogen then so must we.

Reason being simply that we don't manufacture any of this stuff ourselves these days so whichever system others use is the one we'll have to use.

It's a Beta / VHS situation really. Regardless of which is best, it's the one that everyone else uses that you want to have.

Only way I can see Australia having a choice is if both systems are widely adopted in other countries where they drive on the left hand side of the road as we do. :2twocents
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I agree with you, the only thing in our favour is, Korea (Hyundia and Kia) and also Japan (Toyota) are very keen on H2 and fuel cells.
The problem I forsee, is Labor throwing billions of taxpayer dollars, at battery car infrastructure and tax offsets.
When the manufacturers haven't even decided on a standard voltage, charging format(ac/dc) or even a standard charging plug.
No doubt we will end up with another massive mess, rather than a structured well thought out plan of attack.
 
Smurf1976 said:
Only way I can see Australia having a choice is if both systems are widely adopted in other countries where they drive on the left hand side of the road as we do.
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I wonder if anyone will come up with a vehicle with the steering position in the centre and passengers on each side of driver or as in some aircraft where the wheel can be swung to either side. Having every car like that could save a lot on LHD/RHD conversion.
 
A lot of places are installing battery charge stations, so I'd say thats the way its going. Hydrogen cars are not considered that clean either. 600kms to a tank wasn't bad though.
 
moXJO said:
A lot of places are installing battery charge stations, so I'd say thats the way its going. Hydrogen cars are not considered that clean either. 600kms to a tank wasn't bad though.
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It depends how the hydrogen is made, if from renewable supplied electrolysis, it is very clean.
 
sptrawler said:
It depends how the hydrogen is made, if from renewable supplied electrolysis, it is very clean.
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I am not a fan of h2, potentially dangerous, extremely leaky, even thru metal, etc
but it has one advantage: preserve the current system/infrastructure: h2 station, truck deliveries, we can have factories pumping h2 as needed when sunny windy, even burning h2 in turbine during still cloudy days..H2 acting as an hydro would...
So H2 could preserve the system, replace coal
But it means you can not produce your own whereas you can produce your power..
funnily I thought the government would be pushing h2 for that reason: keep jobs, taxes, car repairs etc
 
Ann said:
This is a very grim news article given the driver died. A Tesla hit a tree and burst into flames. Obviously there has been no reason given as to why but further down in the article there is a mention of Lithium batteries. If they are this flammable I would be very concerned about having big banks of lithium batteries in my home, also I am not all that excited by EVs now if they are going to ignite so violently.
Tesla Slams Into Tree In Florida, Bursting Into Flames And Killing Driver
......Recall that in May of this year, two teens were killed after their Tesla sped into a wall in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. That crash caused the car's electric engine to catch fire. After that crash, the National Transportation Safety Board found that the Tesla's lithium ion battery, which was the source of the fire, reignited twice.
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Do you understand that Tanks of petrol also often explode in flames when a car drives into a tree?

People will die in EV crashes, that is certainty, what interests me more what is the rate of deaths.

Eg, How many miles are driven per fatality by the national vehicle fleet vs How many miles are driven per fatality of autopilot enhanced EV's.

You can count on every Autopilot or driverless vehicle crash fatality making the news, but regular cars with human drivers are killing people every day, rarely making the news, local news at best.
 
Value Collector said:
Do you understand that Tanks of petrol also often explode in flames when a car drives into a tree?

People will die in EV crashes, that is certainty, what interests me more what is the rate of deaths.

Eg, How many miles are driven per fatality by the national vehicle fleet vs How many miles are driven per fatality of autopilot enhanced EV's.

You can count on every Autopilot or driverless vehicle crash fatality making the news, but regular cars with human drivers are killing people every day, rarely making the news, local news at best.
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Have you heard when the Tesla's will hit Aust? Or are they still filling U.S orders?
 
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