Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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Trader X said:
Missing the point entirely, such safety equipment was never even close to being as relatively expensive as FSD is today. A/C, power steering, seat belts etcetera were hardly proprietary tech and available from multiple parts manufacturers so the price decreased rapidly.
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A/C was seriously expensive at one point. It was something that even the bona fide rich saw as worthwhile only in places hot enough to warrant it.

Computers got cheap and everyone's got one in some form or another.

Private aircraft never got cheap and never became common.

If FSD doesn't become economic then quite simply it won't become common. Same with most things.
 
Value Collector said:
You keep mentioning that, even though I have already explained that autopilot, and the other safety features are free
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Never stated or implied autopilot was not free, FSD is definitely not free. The difference is quite clear, are you going to suggest FSD is not an enhanced safety feature?

"Basic Autopilot comprises four key features: blind-spot monitoring, emergency braking, adaptive cruise control and lane-keeping assistance."

BFD, a 4yo Mazda 3 Astina has these same safety features. FSD is what makes the Tesla's standout, not autopilot which is a misnomer unless you want to apply that label to products from many other brands that incorporate their own versions of these features.
 
Smurf1976 said:
A/C was seriously expensive at one point. It was something that even the bona fide rich saw as worthwhile only in places hot enough to warrant it.

Computers got cheap and everyone's got one in some form or another.

Private aircraft never got cheap and never became common.

If FSD doesn't become economic then quite simply it won't become common. Same with most things.
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Still missing the point, FSD software is proprietary and always will be, is a revenue stream for Tesla and likely never be "common" on a Tesla. Using your analogy then, FSD will never get cheap and therefore never become common. Autonomous driving software on other brands may become more common if priced affordably.
 
Trader X said:
Never stated or implied autopilot was not free, FSD is definitely not free. The difference is quite clear, are you going to suggest FSD is not an enhanced safety feature?

"Basic Autopilot comprises four key features: blind-spot monitoring, emergency braking, adaptive cruise control and lane-keeping assistance."

BFD, a 4yo Mazda 3 Astina has these same safety features. FSD is what makes the Tesla's standout, not autopilot which is a misnomer unless you want to apply that label to products from many other brands that incorporate their own versions of these features.
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Firstly, I take it you have never actually driven a Tesla while autopilot is enaged? Because you don’t seem to grasp exactly what it is.

Full self driving is not just a safety feature, I would consider it more of a high end luxury feature, that is going to get better and better.

Autopilot does make driving safer as the numbers clearly show, it reduces crashes and deaths vs cars that don’t have it engaged, and it’s free vs full self driving is a different animal the extra features are more for convenience and luxury than safety.

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So explain to me how the 3 year old Mazda 3 is the same as Tesla Autopilot?

Will the Mazda 3 drive itself for hours at a time without the driver having to steer? Will it change lanes itself with just a flick of the indicator, while making sure the lane is clear and pausing to wait for other cars to move? If it was doing an autopilot lane change and a vehicle from another lanes began merging into that same lane would it automatically avoid the collision?
 
Trader X said:
Still missing the point, FSD software is proprietary and always will be, is a revenue stream for Tesla and likely never be "common" on a Tesla.
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Almost certainly someone will come up with a comparable system at some point.

I'm pretty sure that the other major car manufacturers are all capable of buying a Tesla, reverse engineering every aspect of it, and coming up with their own version that's close but different enough to avoid infringing patents.

It won't happen tomorrow but at some point someone probably will do it.
 
@Trader X

Is this the Mazda Function you think is comparable to Teslas Autopilot?

If it is I think you need to go research what Tesla Autopilot actually does, because the autopilot on Teslas is nothing like this lane assist rubbish Mazda has.

The Tesla does have lane assist just like that Mazda, but that’s not what autopilot is, autopilot will drive in the centre of the lane, rounding corners etc and then even change lanes for you when you flick the indicator on.

 
SirRumpole said:
Yeah well, one person gets assaulted at a bank, 9 million get their identities hacked.
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I've made my point about IT previously on this thread.

Brilliant things can be done but the entire industry has a problem in that it's prone to putting things into real world use without first undertaking comprehensive testing. There's a mentality that "we can always patch that later" which fails to grasp that yes, you can patch the code flaw but no, you can't undo the consequences that the flaw just put someone in real physical danger or worse.

I'm not against doing "smart" things - I just want to see proper, comprehensive testing before any code is pushed out to real world use in road vehicles. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
I've made my point about IT previously on this thread.

Brilliant things can be done but the entire industry has a problem in that it's prone to putting things into real world use without first undertaking comprehensive testing. There's a mentality that "we can always patch that later" which fails to grasp that yes, you can patch the code flaw but no, you can't undo the consequences that the flaw just put someone in real physical danger or worse.

I'm not against doing "smart" things - I just want to see proper, comprehensive testing before any code is pushed out to real world use in road vehicles. :2twocents
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I agree with what you are saying in principle, but it’s also important to remember that humans aren’t perfect, and infact humans have all sorts of flaws, weaknesses and limitations built into our bodily hardware and software.

So any system that is designed and built to take over from humans doesn’t have to be 100% perfect and flawless, it just has to be better than the imperfect and flawed humans it is taking over from.

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Also, these systems do not currently “takeover” 100% of the operation from humans, they are an add on.

A vehicle with autopilot engaged should still have a human sitting in the drivers sit, and together the two systems (eg autopilots and the human) should work very well together and are proving to be more reliable and safer than stand alone humans.
 
Value Collector said:
A vehicle with autopilot engaged should still have a human sitting in the drivers sit, and together the two systems (eg autopilots and the human) should work very well together and are proving to be more reliable and safer than stand alone humans.
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The weakness in your argument is that humans think differently and can make decisions rapidly dependent on circumstances. Sure , some are idiots that shouldn't be on the roads but that's a consequence of our licensing systems.

As we have seen with the 737-MAX, if a software problem is replicated throughout the system (e.g every Tesla on the road), then the potential is there to effect much more people than a single person making a mistake.

I reckon a significant number of people will be lazy and treat self drive as infallible, and will play with their phones or otherwise get distracted and take their eyes of the road creating the potential for more accidents. However I concede that if the system is perfect then it will be safer than human drivers, I just don't think it ever will be perfect.
 
SirRumpole said:
1. The weakness in your argument is that humans think differently and can make decisions rapidly dependent on circumstances. Sure , some are idiots that shouldn't be on the roads but that's a consequence of our licensing systems.
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As I pointed out earlier Humans have lots of weaknesses, everything from only being able to look in one direction at a time, to medical issues to just plan of distraction.

So far the stats are showing that autopilot reduces the number of accidents and the number of deaths, and auto pilot is getting better and better.

Sure their was some 737-Max crashes, but you would have to compare that to how many crashes there would have been across the fleet over the years if aeroplanes function hadn’t been automated.

Imagine if autopilot in planes Didn’t exists, and the thousands of planes flying every day relied on pilots that had to be in 100% in control of the plane at all times.

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Can you concede that the system doesn’t have to be perfect to be better than imperfect humans?
 
Value Collector said:
As I pointed out earlier Humans have lots of weaknesses, everything from only being able to look in one direction at a time, to medical issues to just plan of distraction.

So far the stats are showing that autopilot reduces the number of accidents and the number of deaths, and auto pilot is getting better and better.

Sure their was some 737-Max crashes, but you would have to compare that to how many crashes there would have been across the fleet over the years if aeroplanes function hadn’t been automated.

Imagine if autopilot in planes Didn’t exists, and the thousands of planes flying every day relied on pilots that had to be in 100% in control of the plane at all times.

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Can you concede that the system doesn’t have to be perfect to be better than imperfect humans?
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I reiterate that flaws in software that is replicated over a large amount of vehicles have the potential to cause more damage than the weaknesses of a few individuals.
 
Humans are terrible drivers.
As soon as a highway gets above a certain number of cars per lane, the traffic slows to a crawl due to:
-slow and distracted drivers,
-drivers cutting into lanes slowing the cars they cut into,
-slow reaction times, once a car slows everyone else slows behind them to varying degrees causing a long term slowing effect.

The day when we are banned from driving and the cars are computer controlled will be the day we can double the capacity of the roads and everyone get to where they are going in a much better time.
 
JohnDe said:
Your car is faulty, call the manufacturer first thing tomorrow morning.

The brake lights should come on as soon as you lift your foot off of the accelerator on a regeneration system. I’ve checked mine & confirmed with other users.
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I checked it out, you are correct, the brake lights work above a certain amount of regen.
Thats good, because at maximum regen it is pretty aggressive braking.
 
sptrawler said:
I checked it out, you are correct, the brake lights work above a certain amount of regen.
Thats good, because at maximum regen it is pretty aggressive braking.
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How are you finding the Regen? It took me a few days to get used to it, then it became second nature and now I miss it when I drive a non ev.
 
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