Electric cars?

[JohnDe]

This is where we need some body like the old CSIRO to be fully funded, on a wartime like footing, to develop a battery, EV, Solar, Hydrogen and RE Commodity Exchange.

Our private sector minus Twiggy doesn't have the balls or the means to take on risk.

gg

Strategic Elements SOR?

Strategic Elements operates as a venture builder where it generates ventures and projects from combining teams of leading scientists or innovators in the technology or resources sectors.​

​

Strategic Elements operates as a registered Pooled Development Fund (PDF) on the Australian Stock Exchange under the code ‘SOR’.​

​

Under the Federal Government PDF program our investors pay no tax on capital gains or dividends to compensate for the higher risk of investing in small and medium sized companies.​

About - Strategic Elements

Strategic Elements operates as a Pooled Development Fund (PDF). An Australian Federal Government program designed to encourage innovation and investment into Australian companies. Strategic Elements operates as a venture builder where it generates ventures and projects from combining teams...

www.strategicelements.com.au

 

[JohnDe]

How many batteries required to be waiting in storage?

What is the cost off a 'swap station'?

How many 'swap station' required and between what distances?

How does an owner know that their battery swap will be like for like (my battery could be 6 months old but the swap is 2 years)?

Will the manufacturer foot the bill of a 'swap station'?

Back in late March we had a bit of a debate about battery swap technology, further information has come out -

 

[mullokintyre]

The video below shows some interesting EV development by Volvo for smaller type agricultural/loader equipment.
Was always going to happen.
but what I found most enlightening was the portable charging unit from beam.
See Beam Portable off grid chargers
Has an interesting discussion about post mainstream life of the battery packs.
They can have a secondary life after being changed out.
Probably only the first half is relevant to most ASF members.


Mick

 

[rcw1]

Good morning JohnDe
I found this article in todays (18/09/22) Sunday Mail, thought it may interest you:

PREMIER HOPING FOR TESLA

Stephanie Bennett

PREMIER Annastacia Palaszczuk says she would welcome global tech giant Tesla to Queensland, after Australia’s most senior executive suggested the company wanted to open a local manufacturing plant.
Speaking at the National Press Club this week, Tesla chief Robyn Denholm said the electric car manufacturing could reinvigorate the sector.
“We have the skills and we can retool and get people into advanced manufacturing,” she said. “No country has more to gain from the world moving to electric vehicles than Australia. We can be a renewable energy superpower.”
Asked whether she would welcome Tesla to Queensland, Ms Palaszczuk was enthusiastic. “I would love Tesla to come to Queensland,” she said.
“In fact I think it was either 2016 or 2017 I went to the big factory they were building out at Nevada. So happy to facilitate any discussions there.”
Ms Denholm said Australia was one of the few countries in the world with all the “critical minerals” required to create lithium ion batteries.
“Tesla spends $1bn a year on Australian minerals, and the demand is growing rapidly,” she said. “However, Australia is missing out on much of the value-add from this supply chain because, to date, the focus has been shipping the raw materials offshore.”

 

[JohnDe]

Good morning JohnDe
I found this article in todays (18/09/22) Sunday Mail, thought it may interest you:

PREMIER HOPING FOR TESLA

Stephanie Bennett

PREMIER Annastacia Palaszczuk says she would welcome global tech giant Tesla to Queensland, after Australia’s most senior executive suggested the company wanted to open a local manufacturing plant.
Speaking at the National Press Club this week, Tesla chief Robyn Denholm said the electric car manufacturing could reinvigorate the sector.
“We have the skills and we can retool and get people into advanced manufacturing,” she said. “No country has more to gain from the world moving to electric vehicles than Australia. We can be a renewable energy superpower.”
Asked whether she would welcome Tesla to Queensland, Ms Palaszczuk was enthusiastic. “I would love Tesla to come to Queensland,” she said.
“In fact I think it was either 2016 or 2017 I went to the big factory they were building out at Nevada. So happy to facilitate any discussions there.”
Ms Denholm said Australia was one of the few countries in the world with all the “critical minerals” required to create lithium ion batteries.
“Tesla spends $1bn a year on Australian minerals, and the demand is growing rapidly,” she said. “However, Australia is missing out on much of the value-add from this supply chain because, to date, the focus has been shipping the raw materials offshore.”

Thanks rcw1. Sounds great, that the QLD Premier is open to ideas.

Asked whether she would welcome Tesla to Queensland, Ms Palaszczuk was enthusiastic. “I would love Tesla to come to Queensland,” she said.​

“In fact I think it was either 2016 or 2017 I went to the big factory they were building out at Nevada. So happy to facilitate any discussions there.”​

The next step is allocating responsibility to the relevant Ministries to meet & discuss with industry leaders in Australia, prepare the ground work. Armed with the information, the Premier should sit down with Robyn Deholm, who appears to be ready to stand up for Australia, and come up with a battle plan. There are many countries that want a gigafactory, and their governments are working with their industries.

Come on Australian leadership, look 50 years into the future & see what needs to be done now.

 

[sptrawler]

Australian electric motor breakthrough promises boost in electric-car driving range

A compact, high-revving electric motor developed by Australian researchers is claimed to be a game changer for the driving range of electric vehicles.

www.drive.com.au

A high-speed electric motor developed by researchers at the University of NSW in Sydney could increase the driving range of some electric cars by up to 10 per cent.
It is said to be smaller, lighter and cheaper than units currently in use and could be commercialised in less than a year.
Its designers claim a number of advantages, from the motor's high spinning speed of 100,000 revolutions a minute, to greater internal strength and smaller external size.
It also promises to use less of the rare earth minerals consumed to produce electric motors.

Apart from the motors used in electric cars, it could also be used for the compressors in heating and cooling systems, high-precision industrial milling machines, and generators used in aircraft.
The university research team has two fully-developed and tested prototypes of its 5kW motor and is looking to move towards production.
“The motor's reduced weight and improved efficiency could contribute to an extended range of around 5-10 per cent longer.”
Research by the team points to a 50 per cent reduction in manufacturing costs, based on materials' costs, and also because the new motor does not need the internal strengthening of existing designs.
“The two 100,000rpm (revs-per-minute) 5kW prototypes have already been fully tested and verified, which makes this high-speed motor design technology ready for production in applications with similar power and speed requirements,” he said.
“It will take approximately six months to 1.5 years of additional research and development [R&D] to be ready for production in other application fields. The length of the R&D period depends on the new application's power, speed, and performance requirements.
“We are actively looking for opportunities to commercialize the motor with help from the UNSW Knowledge Exchange department. And we are open to all sorts of ways to commercialize the IP (Intellectual Property) or build collaborations,” said Dr Chu.

 

[sptrawler]

At last the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has arrived, it is definitely worth considering for those who like out of town IMO.

2022 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Aspire review: Australian first drive

The Mitsubishi Outlander range once again stocks a plug-in hybrid powertrain, but is it the right choice for Australians?

www.drive.com.au

According to Mitsubishi, the Outlander PHEV runs 1.5L/100km on a combined fuel cycle using both petrol and electric power, but our use after roughly 50km was 0.6L/100km. Once the 20kWh battery drains, the fuel use jumped to 5.3L/100km. These figures were gathered on a short press drive, so arguably not the most representative of a typical-use case.
When it comes to charging up the 20kWh battery, Mitsubishi quotes a 9.5-hour 0–100 per cent charge time on a domestic 240V outlet, 6.5-hour charge time using a domestic wallbox, and a 38-minute 0–80 per cent charge time on DC charging
It also gets vehicle-to-load capabilities that enable the Outlander to act as a mobile battery pack powering things such as camping equipment. All model grades in the line-up are powered by a tweaked version of the previous powertrain – a naturally aspirated 2.4-litre four-cylinder engine. Together with electric outputs (which we’ll discuss more soon), the Outlander PHEV sends 185kW/450Nm to all four wheels
That’s not the only way you can charge the battery either – the on-board generator is able to charge the car from 0–80 per cent in 1.5 hours. Both front and rear electric motors can act as generators to send power back to the battery too.
On the Aspire grade and up, the car comes with two three-pin power points that provide 1500 watts of vehicle-to-load power. This works much the same as we’ve seen in cars like the Hyundai Ioniq 5, whereby you can power items like a coffee machine, camping equipment, or a laptop charger.
Mitsubishi is also one of the few manufacturers to offer vehicle-to-grid and vehicle-to-home capabilities, which can send the battery’s power back to the grid or to a home. However, this capability isn’t yet available, waiting on the commercial release of the Wallbox Quasar bidirectional charger.
The petrol engine only fires up when you properly put your foot down or the vehicle eclipses 135km/h. To dictate how the vehicle drives, there’s a whopping seven driving modes to choose from, as well as four EV driving modes. I spent most time in the Normal EV mode, which primarily uses battery power.
With 85kW/100kW outputs from the front/rear motors respectively, the Outlander has a decent amount of shove off the line, but builds speed quickly the longer you hold the accelerator.

 

[SirRumpole]

Can anyone comment on the practicality or othewise of buying a ev overseas then importing it ?

 

[mullokintyre]

I have imported two US made cars from USA in the past.
The issue is of course getting them registered/insured to run in OZ.
I have only registered one , and it is on club rego, for cars more than 25 years old.
Newer cars may need more paperwork, like engineers reports.
If they are RHD vehicles may be easier.
LFD may be limited to club use or special permit use ( cranes, agricultural/industrial equipment).
Not much I know.
.
Mick

 

[JohnDe]

 

[sptrawler]

Can anyone comment on the practicality or othewise of buying a ev overseas then importing it ?

I would guess that the main problem would be that it would probably be dearer than buying one here.
The reason being that the 'grey car' market was mainly the importing of second hand RHD, these usually came from Japan and Singapore from memory, the issue was in those countries the rego became dearer and dearer as the cars aged so it quickly became too expensive to register them for the road. This was due to smog tests, which were expensive and if they failed they had to repay to re test, it was cheaper to put in a new motor for the smog test than to fail it and have to re test.
With E.V's I would guess this will no longer be an issue, therefore the supply of older second hand cars will diminish and as they are more expensive to buy new over there the financials wouldn't stack up.
A Hyundai Kona here is around $60k, in Singapore they cost about $130k, in Japan they are about the same price as here.

Hyundai Kona Electric Limited 2022 Price In Japan , Features And Specs - Ccarprice JPY

Latest Hyundai Kona Electric Limited 2022 price in Japan 2020 and detail specs, Get Market Rate of Hyundai Kona Electric Limited 2022 online before buying Hyundai Kona Electric Limited 2022 in jp

www.ccarprice.com

Updated Hyundai Kona Hybrid and EV now on sale in Singapore - Online Car Marketplace for Used & New Cars

Hyundai’s updated Kona Hybrid and Electric crossovers are now on sale in Singapore, featuring new designs and enhanced safety features

carbuyer.com.sg

 

[sptrawler]

Obviously E.V charging equipment breakdowns isn't just restricted too W.A, or is it the media being as negative as possible? I guess the fact that an Australian company has got a toe in the U.S, is secondary. ?

Australian company boosting Biden’s electric car agenda under scrutiny

Complaints about Tritium come as Biden talked up the transition to electric vehicles in Detroit, where he announced funding to build EV charging stations in 35 states.

www.theage.com.au

Brisbane-based Tritium has risen to prominence in America over the past few months after Biden showcased the company in Washington as part of his broader economic strategy to get more manufacturers to build in the US and bolster the nation’s electric vehicle (EV) network

But three weeks after Tritium opened a new production plant in Tennessee, which Biden hopes will help him “electrify the great American road trip”, concerns have been raised by drivers who say that Tritium’s chargers in Australia are often broken and take months to repair.

“Finding one that works, particularly in the last eight months or so, has been a real problem,” said medical writer Greg Noonan, who drives a Tesla and works part-time as an Uber driver on the Gold Coast.
“There were some that were out of action for four months. Imagine if you went to a petrol station – the only one in your area – and it had no pumps available for four months. It’s not acceptable. If they can’t keep our chargers going, what hope does America have if things start going wrong?”

Tritium did not respond to questions from The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age about the concerns, many of which have also been raised by other motorists on the EV charging station app, Plugshare.

“Still out of service, hello Tritium,” wrote one driver, John, at an east coast charging station last week. “The hardware was broken,” wrote another. “Unit not communicating. Rang through and couldn’t get it going"

 

[SirRumpole]

Obviously E.V charging equipment breakdowns isn't just restricted too W.A, or is it the media being as negative as possible? I guess the fact that an Australian company has got a toe in the U.S, is secondary. ?

Australian company boosting Biden’s electric car agenda under scrutiny

Complaints about Tritium come as Biden talked up the transition to electric vehicles in Detroit, where he announced funding to build EV charging stations in 35 states.

www.theage.com.au

Brisbane-based Tritium has risen to prominence in America over the past few months after Biden showcased the company in Washington as part of his broader economic strategy to get more manufacturers to build in the US and bolster the nation’s electric vehicle (EV) network

But three weeks after Tritium opened a new production plant in Tennessee, which Biden hopes will help him “electrify the great American road trip”, concerns have been raised by drivers who say that Tritium’s chargers in Australia are often broken and take months to repair.

“Finding one that works, particularly in the last eight months or so, has been a real problem,” said medical writer Greg Noonan, who drives a Tesla and works part-time as an Uber driver on the Gold Coast.
“There were some that were out of action for four months. Imagine if you went to a petrol station – the only one in your area – and it had no pumps available for four months. It’s not acceptable. If they can’t keep our chargers going, what hope does America have if things start going wrong?”

Tritium did not respond to questions from The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age about the concerns, many of which have also been raised by other motorists on the EV charging station app, Plugshare.

“Still out of service, hello Tritium,” wrote one driver, John, at an east coast charging station last week. “The hardware was broken,” wrote another. “Unit not communicating. Rang through and couldn’t get it going"

When Uncle Joe starts riding around in a Kona instead of that beast of his, I'll believe he's serious.

 

[mullokintyre]

When Uncle Joe starts riding around in a Kona instead of that beast of his, I'll believe he's serious.

You talking about that bicycle he fell from?
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

You talking about that bicycle he fell from?
Mick

I suppose it's good he's riding a bike, if he has trouble with getting his leg over he could try an electric scooter.

 

[qldfrog]

I just want current or tentative EV buyers to be aware:
This is a key change of scale, and if price remains sensible, can be a real alternative to ICE..for a limited audience/transition
And this is not a lab or research facility talk

CATL's groundbreaking Qilin battery pack promises a 621-mile range for EVs

It beats the 4680-cell innovation that Elon Musk talks about.

interestingengineering.com

Real market ready ..and yeap not Tesla but China..who would have guessed

 

[sptrawler]

As we said @JohnDe , infrastructure is the issue, not subsidising more cars.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/electric-vehicle-owners-going-to-bizarre-lengths-to-charge-cars/news-story/9b8f0fda2b6b0c390f9e521122913541

The issue of on-street electrical vehicle charging is becoming more prevalent as bizarre scenes continue to emerge throughout Sydney.
A photo shared by 2GB on Tuesday morning showed the extreme lengths an electric vehicle owner has gone to at their Millers Point townhouse.

A long yellow extension cord extends from their second storey home, across the balcony and into a tree
The cable is wrapped around the tree’s branches and nearby bushes before ending at a power board hanging loosely in the air.

From that power board, a black charger snakes its way down the tree trunk, through the gutter and into the car.
“The man who took the photo says to us, ‘I was walking down the street to go into work. I couldn‘t believe my eyes,’” he said.

“He said, ‘It looked like a street in Vietnam; how it’s legal is beyond me.’”

It comes after 2GB shared images and vision of a similar scene on a suburban Manly street on Friday morning.

A long orange power cable snaked its way all the way down from a home to a car parked out on the street.

The cord was long enough that it stretched from the house, down the front steps, along the driveway, across the fence and onto the footpath before reaching the road and car.

A cable protector was placed on the footpath to shield the cord, while it appears it is looped around the fence when it is not in use.



Parking Australia chief executive Stuart Norman said it was a serious issue impacting millions across the country.

“We know that on-street charging is an issue for about three million Australian households,” he told NCA NewsWire last week.

“People plug-in their car in the same way they plug their phone in. We know from people who have a driveway and garage that’s exactly what they do.

“But people who don’t have a driveway can’t do that.”

Mr Norman has tried to raise his ideas and concerns with strategy makers and politicians, such as Energy Minister Chris Bowen and Teal MP Monique Ryan.

Mr Norman openly said “most of them are gonna get it wrong; we’ve tried to engage with political leaders on this and we’ve had several that are just too busy to even meet with us”.

“We want to engage with political leaders to tell them how it can be done; otherwise they’re gonna make mistakes.

“There’s a lack of understanding of the electrical distribution network and a lack of understanding of people’s habits.”

 

[qldfrog]

As we said @JohnDe , infrastructure is the issue, not subsidising more cars.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/electric-vehicle-owners-going-to-bizarre-lengths-to-charge-cars/news-story/9b8f0fda2b6b0c390f9e521122913541

The issue of on-street electrical vehicle charging is becoming more prevalent as bizarre scenes continue to emerge throughout Sydney.
A photo shared by 2GB on Tuesday morning showed the extreme lengths an electric vehicle owner has gone to at their Millers Point townhouse.

A long yellow extension cord extends from their second storey home, across the balcony and into a tree
The cable is wrapped around the tree’s branches and nearby bushes before ending at a power board hanging loosely in the air.

From that power board, a black charger snakes its way down the tree trunk, through the gutter and into the car.
“The man who took the photo says to us, ‘I was walking down the street to go into work. I couldn‘t believe my eyes,’” he said.

“He said, ‘It looked like a street in Vietnam; how it’s legal is beyond me.’”

It comes after 2GB shared images and vision of a similar scene on a suburban Manly street on Friday morning.

A long orange power cable snaked its way all the way down from a home to a car parked out on the street.

The cord was long enough that it stretched from the house, down the front steps, along the driveway, across the fence and onto the footpath before reaching the road and car.

A cable protector was placed on the footpath to shield the cord, while it appears it is looped around the fence when it is not in use.

View attachment 147031

Parking Australia chief executive Stuart Norman said it was a serious issue impacting millions across the country.

“We know that on-street charging is an issue for about three million Australian households,” he told NCA NewsWire last week.

“People plug-in their car in the same way they plug their phone in. We know from people who have a driveway and garage that’s exactly what they do.

“But people who don’t have a driveway can’t do that.”

Mr Norman has tried to raise his ideas and concerns with strategy makers and politicians, such as Energy Minister Chris Bowen and Teal MP Monique Ryan.

Mr Norman openly said “most of them are gonna get it wrong; we’ve tried to engage with political leaders on this and we’ve had several that are just too busy to even meet with us”.

“We want to engage with political leaders to tell them how it can be done; otherwise they’re gonna make mistakes.

“There’s a lack of understanding of the electrical distribution network and a lack of understanding of people’s habits.”

how is it legal? it is not and the BC could be all over the owner, I would raise the alarm if I belonged to that BC or even the neighbour

 

[JohnDe]

As we said @JohnDe , infrastructure is the issue, not subsidising more cars.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/electric-vehicle-owners-going-to-bizarre-lengths-to-charge-cars/news-story/9b8f0fda2b6b0c390f9e521122913541

The issue of on-street electrical vehicle charging is becoming more prevalent as bizarre scenes continue to emerge throughout Sydney.
A photo shared by 2GB on Tuesday morning showed the extreme lengths an electric vehicle owner has gone to at their Millers Point townhouse.

A long yellow extension cord extends from their second storey home, across the balcony and into a tree
The cable is wrapped around the tree’s branches and nearby bushes before ending at a power board hanging loosely in the air.

From that power board, a black charger snakes its way down the tree trunk, through the gutter and into the car.
“The man who took the photo says to us, ‘I was walking down the street to go into work. I couldn‘t believe my eyes,’” he said.

“He said, ‘It looked like a street in Vietnam; how it’s legal is beyond me.’”

It comes after 2GB shared images and vision of a similar scene on a suburban Manly street on Friday morning.

A long orange power cable snaked its way all the way down from a home to a car parked out on the street.

The cord was long enough that it stretched from the house, down the front steps, along the driveway, across the fence and onto the footpath before reaching the road and car.

A cable protector was placed on the footpath to shield the cord, while it appears it is looped around the fence when it is not in use.

View attachment 147031

Parking Australia chief executive Stuart Norman said it was a serious issue impacting millions across the country.

“We know that on-street charging is an issue for about three million Australian households,” he told NCA NewsWire last week.

“People plug-in their car in the same way they plug their phone in. We know from people who have a driveway and garage that’s exactly what they do.

“But people who don’t have a driveway can’t do that.”

Mr Norman has tried to raise his ideas and concerns with strategy makers and politicians, such as Energy Minister Chris Bowen and Teal MP Monique Ryan.

Mr Norman openly said “most of them are gonna get it wrong; we’ve tried to engage with political leaders on this and we’ve had several that are just too busy to even meet with us”.

“We want to engage with political leaders to tell them how it can be done; otherwise they’re gonna make mistakes.

“There’s a lack of understanding of the electrical distribution network and a lack of understanding of people’s habits.”

Easy solutions, if councils and governments worked with business and homeowners.

I came up with two ideas, one is already in use -

1) Siemens converts all lamp posts on residential street to electric car chargers

UK, tech giant Siemens and electric vehicle charging solutions provider ubitricity have converted all the lamp posts on a central London residential street into “hidden” electric vehicle chargers.​

​

The street in question – the near kilometre-long Sutherland Avenue in Westminster – now has 24 converted lamp posts along the length of the avenue, bringing the number of lamp post charging points in Westminster City to almost 300.​

2) Footpath Socket Pillar (No examples in use for street)

Owner of property pays for the installation of pole with electrical socket, which is put near the edge of the curb. The electricity is for personal use, a lock is fitted, council fee applies as an addition to property rates.​

Example only. Final item would be taller, one or multiple sockets for multiple homes with only off-street parking, locking device for power socket.​

 

[sptrawler]

how is it legal? it is not and the BC could be all over the owner, I would raise the alarm if I belonged to that BC or even the neighbour

Until someone gets a handle on it.
I can imagine it now, call out an electrician, "help my charger isn't working, can you fix it, I think it has lost the supply"?