Electric cars?

[rederob]

How accurate is your data ?

Obituary columns are pretty reliable.
Although a friend of mine is one of those police officers who has to attend accident scenes and determine probable cause leading to deaths. The trucking industry's resistance to mandating electronic logging has not been helpful.

 

[PZ99]

Obituary columns are pretty reliable.
Although a friend of mine is one of those police officers who has to attend accident scenes and determine probable cause leading to deaths. The trucking industry's resistance to mandating electronic logging has not been helpful.

And yet... these people are :quote: an exceptionally small part of the driving public

 

[Not Enough Coffee]

That is a good insight, thanks very much.
By the way I doubt Alice is on the interconnected grid, but probably has a decent size Power Station, so charging electric vehicles at 150Kw isn't a problem.
But it would be interesting at Daly Waters or Kulgera, if cars were lined up for a charge.

Yes you are right Alice is not on the interconnected grid. We have Diesel & Gas Fired Generators providing the majority of power needs. We also have 4MW Solar Farm & the government recently commissioned a 3.8MWh Battery to assist with peak lopping and frequency stability. With over 70MW peak capacity, yeah agree DC charging in Alice wont be an issue.

Remote locations (like Kulgera, Daly Waters etc) do have own Diesel Generators, but they would likely need battery storage to facilitate DC Fast charging at 150kW. If battery storage is installed, then exisiting generators and/or solar power can be used to trickle charge/store energy in the battery and fast charge vehicles using DC as needed.

 

[rederob]

And yet... these people are :quote: an exceptionally small part of the driving public

Yes, a an exceptionally small part of the driving public are disproportionately involved in vehicle deaths and injuries.

 

[PZ99]

Yes, a an exceptionally small part of the driving public are disproportionately involved in vehicle deaths and injuries.

Your article says "Available Australian evidence suggests that in approximately 80 per cent of fatal multiple vehicle crashes involving heavy trucks, fault is not assigned to the
heavy truck. Note however that assignment of fault (or key vehicle status) is not necessarily feasible for all crashes."

That sounds more like luck than data to me. I'm not driving a truck so I'm not contributing to your data or luck. I'm driving a car that can do around 1000k's without a stop and I'm looking for an EV that can do the same.

Until then...

be happy to continue sharing the road with people who do cause crashes instead of me

 

[rederob]

Your article says "Available Australian evidence suggests that in approximately 80 per cent of fatal multiple vehicle crashes involving heavy trucks, fault is not assigned to the
heavy truck. Note however that assignment of fault (or key vehicle status) is not necessarily feasible for all crashes."

That sounds more like luck than data to me. I'm not driving a truck so I'm not contributing to your data or luck. I'm driving a car that can do around 1000k's without a stop and I'm looking for an EV that can do the same.

Until then...

be happy to continue sharing the road with people who do cause crashes instead of me

I cannot definitively prove that some people who I knew and were smokers died from cancer caused by their cigarettes.
I can infer from the data that smoking was a probable contributory factor.
The effects of fatigue are proven, and early fatigue warning devices for vehicles are available and probably should be mandated for professional drivers.
If your driving habits contribute to fatigue, as it appears you seldom take rests, then despite what you might think the data make you disproportionately more dangerous to share the road with.

 

[PZ99]

I cannot definitively prove that some people who I knew and were smokers died from cancer caused by their cigarettes.
I can infer from the data that smoking was a probable contributory factor.
The effects of fatigue are proven, and early fatigue warning devices for vehicles are available and probably should be mandated for professional drivers.
If your driving habits contribute to fatigue, as it appears you seldom take rests, then despite what you might think the data make you disproportionately more dangerous to share the road with.

If you can't prove that smokers died from cancer because they smoked then you're not working from data - you're working from probability.

My driving habits don't contribute to fatigue - if they did I wouldn't be driving.
Maybe it's a fitness thing? Or competent driving? I drive for 9 hours because I'm fit to do so.
I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, drive whilst texting, or speed, or road rage or drive fatigued.

People who do the above are disproportionately more dangerous than me and the data overwhelmingly backs that up. If you share the road with them you're working with luck.

 

[rederob]

If you can't prove that smokers died from cancer because they smoked then you're not working from data - you're working from probability.

My driving habits don't contribute to fatigue - if they did I wouldn't be driving.
Maybe it's a fitness thing? Or competent driving? I drive for 9 hours because I'm fit to do so.
I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, drive whilst texting, or speed, or road rage or drive fatigued.

People who do the above are disproportionately more dangerous than me and the data overwhelmingly backs that up. If you share the road with them you're working with luck.

It's wonderful that you think you are an exception to the rule.
There are other drivers who think as you.
And there are some no more.
(I agree that there are more probable causes of accidents, as you rightly point out. But fatigue is always in the top 5 likely factors. As an aside, my brother in law was a truckie and he took drugs to stay awake. He literally swore he would be dead today if he did not. I don't have the multi-millions of kilometres of driving to doubt him.)

 

[PZ99]

It's wonderful that you think you are an exception to the rule.
There are other drivers who think as you.
And there are some no more.
(I agree that there are more probable causes of accidents, as you rightly point out. But fatigue is always in the top 5 likely factors. As an aside, my brother in law was a truckie and he took drugs to stay awake. He literally swore he would be dead today if he did not. I don't have the multi-millions of kilometres of driving to doubt him.)

I don't deny fatigue is a factor - but like I said - I don't drive if I'm fatigued. So I'm fit to drive.

I'm glad your brother in law was lucky - if he took drugs to stay awake he wasn't fit to drive.

 

[SirRumpole]

As an aside, my brother in law was a truckie and he took drugs to stay awake. He literally swore he would be dead today if he did not. I don't have the multi-millions of kilometres of driving to doubt him.)

There is something wrong in the trucking industry if this sort of thing still happens.

I thought that there was going to be a crackdown on log books etc.

 

[sptrawler]

There is something wrong in the trucking industry if this sort of thing still happens.

I thought that there was going to be a crackdown on log books etc.

I think it is still hard to earn a decent income, if you don't put in the Klm's, in the trucking business. From talking to a friend who did it for a while, it isn't a lot of fun, but some enjoy it.

 

[rederob]

pasted below with comments in blue

If you can't prove that smokers died from cancer because they smoked then you're not working from data - you're working from probability. Probability cannot be calculated without data. That's why it cannot be assumed that people who think they can drive for long periods without being fatigued are defying what we know about the probability of becoming fatigued.

My driving habits don't contribute to fatigue - if they did I wouldn't be driving. Personal assessments of ability do not constitute evidence.
Maybe it's a fitness thing? Or competent driving? I drive for 9 hours because I'm fit to do so. And my point from the outset was that your belief does not stop people sharing your notion from dying in an accident.
I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, drive whilst texting, or speed, or road rage or drive fatigued. And you probably are a better driver overall than many on the road - but that is not my case.

People who do the above are disproportionately more dangerous than me and the data overwhelmingly backs that up. True If you share the road with them you're working with luck. None of us usually get to know until it's too late, and that's the nub of my argument.

As one of many men who drive, and once thought I was bullet proof because I thought like you, I can say with with no pride that I was delusional.

 

[PZ99]

Probability cannot be calculated without data. That's why it cannot be assumed that people who think they can drive for long periods without being fatigued are defying what we know about the probability of becoming fatigued.

People assume that surviving a long distance drive without fatigue are going against the odds.
By saying that assumption cannot be made you're merely agreeing with my point.
Assumptions and correct interpretation of data are worlds apart.

Personal assessments of ability do not constitute evidence.

They are a vital part of decision making.
Assessments from people who you've never met add little value.

And my point from the outset was that your belief does not stop people sharing your notion from dying in an accident.

That's a double edged sword. Many people not sharing my notion die in accidents.

None of us usually get to know until it's too late, and that's the nub of my argument.

That's a failure of judgement derived from personal choice. There are many people who shouldn't be on the road for any length of time or distance. See below.

As one of many men who drive, and once thought I was bullet proof because I thought like you, I can say with with no pride that I was delusional.

I don't think I'm bulletproof. I assess what a task requires, assemble it, and do it.
Some people can drive for 9 hours - some can't. Delusional are people who pretend to be something they're not.

Prince Phillip was obviously delusional. He was spotted driving after that accident.

 

[rederob]

People assume that surviving a long distance drive without fatigue are going against the odds.
By saying that assumption cannot be made you're merely agreeing with my point.
Assumptions and correct interpretation of data are worlds apart.


They are a vital part of decision making.
Assessments from people who you've never met add little value.



That's a double edged sword. Many people not sharing my notion die in accidents.



That's a failure of judgement derived from personal choice. There are many people who shouldn't be on the road for any length of time or distance. See below.


I don't think I'm bulletproof. I assess what a task requires, assemble it, and do it.
Some people can drive for 9 hours - some can't. Delusional are people who pretend to be something they're not.

Prince Phillip was obviously delusional. He was spotted driving after that accident.

I cannot argue against much of your logic because there was not too much there.
So that's it from me.

 

[PZ99]

Thanks. I'm actually more interested in the topic and one of my fears of street EV charging is the price gouging by the power companies leading to an exorbitant cost of a recharge/top up - especially if there's a shortage of available electricity on a 50 degree day.

So I will be far more comfortable with an EV that I can charge up in Sydney and then drive to Melbourne without stopping for a top up. All it needs is a bigger battery and/or better efficiency.

 

[sptrawler]

Thanks. I'm actually more interested in the topic and one of my fears of street EV charging is the price gouging by the power companies leading to an exorbitant cost of a recharge/top up - especially if there's a shortage of available electricity on a 50 degree day.

So I will be far more comfortable with an EV that I can charge up in Sydney and then drive to Melbourne without stopping for a top up. All it needs is a bigger battery and/or better efficiency.

I compare it to buying my latest car, I was going to buy a new Mustang(old life crisis, pension hunting lol), however because it doesn't have a spare wheel I didn't buy it.
I bought a different vehicle instead, I still travel long distances on roads that don't have mobile coverage, the thought of hitch hiking and leaving the car, while you go to the next Town on the hope they have a tyre turned me off.
Same reason as when I bought a car that ran on lpg, in the past, I bought dual fuel. There was plenty of Towns that didn't have lpg and some that did, but the shop closed at midday Saturday untill Monday morning.
I guess there are plenty who will buy electric, and it may suit there lifestyle, it just wont fit with mine for a while.

 

[basilio]

It is going to interesting to see how top ups for EV cars are priced. There are all sorts of prices possible . At some stage the government will want to put a tax on it as well as excise duties fall.

Could be all sorts of opportunities..

 

[basilio]

I wonder at the effect of super fast (150 kw/300kw ) charges on the battery packs of EV cars ? That is a lot of energy going in very quickly.

 

[sptrawler]

It is going to interesting to see how top ups for EV cars are priced. There are all sorts of prices possible . At some stage the government will want to put a tax on it as well as excise duties fall.

Could be all sorts of opportunities..

The charging station at Mandurah in W.A, operated by the RAC, charge 45c/KW

 

[PZ99]

The charging station at Mandurah in W.A, operated by the RAC, charge 45c/KW

By my calculations that's around $8 per 100km - happy to be corrected.