Electric cars?

[SirRumpole]

but there are businesses that do make sense to have here, if we focus on them Australia will do great.

Such as ?

 

[Value Collector]

Such as ?

Mining and related refining of minerals.
Many types of Agriculture.
Value adding to agriculture (grapes into wine, soy beans into soy sauce etc)
Energy (both fossil and renewables in the future)
Education
Tourism (it will come back)
Investment and financial services
Professional services
Pharmaceuticals and health care
Forestry products.

And there are many more, and obviously all the supporting industries eg Transport, accounting, legal, machinery, construction, financing, etc etc etc

obviously also the many industries that support the domestic economy create value also, it’s not just exports, and these are many to.

 

[Value Collector]

Earlier I said Berkshire owned 21.5% of BYD, I just realised it’s only 7.7% my original source was incorrect

 

[SirRumpole]

Mining and related refining of minerals.
Many types of Agriculture.
Value adding to agriculture (grapes into wine, soy beans into soy sauce etc)
Energy (both fossil and renewables in the future)
Education
Tourism (it will come back)
Investment and financial services
Professional services
Pharmaceuticals and health care
Forestry products.

And there are many more, and obviously all the supporting industries eg Transport, accounting, legal, machinery, construction, financing, etc etc etc

obviously also the many industries that support the domestic economy create value also, it’s not just exports, and these are many to.

Mining and related refining of minerals... as long as we make the most of it by putting on an export tax and creating a sovereign wealth fund

Many types of Agriculture.. As long as it doesn't get hit by climate change/natural disasters, tariffs and other protection methods

Value adding to agriculture (grapes into wine, soy beans into soy sauce etc).. why hasn't it already been done ?
Energy (both fossil and renewables in the future).. some possibilities but fossil fuels are getting harder to find
Education.. look after our own first
Tourism (it will come back)
Investment and financial services
Professional services
Pharmaceuticals and health care.. pharma ? dominated by foreign companies
Forestry products.. sell that to the Greenies

 

[sptrawler]

Yes @rederob one thing for sure, whatever we think will or should happen, very seldom does. ?

 

[rederob]

Yes @rederob one thing for sure, whatever we think will or should happen, very seldom does. ?

Meanwhile America does have some generous incentives for NEVs but they are not straightforward, and involve a mish mash of State contributions in addition to the federal monies (with apologies to GM and Tesla).
Biden has a Bill in place offering a potential $12,500 EV credit but it still await passage following official Congressional approval.
I thought this video featuring upcoming American EVs was interesting:

It confirms America's love of pickups, while many of the offerings were so highly priced they would never sell in any number in Australia.

 

[sptrawler]

Meanwhile America does have some generous incentives for NEVs but they are not straightforward, and involve a mish mash of State contributions in addition to the federal monies (with apologies to GM and Tesla).
Biden has a Bill in place offering a potential $12,500 EV credit but it still await passage following official Congressional approval.
I thought this video featuring upcoming American EVs was interesting:

It confirms America's love of pickups, while many of the offerings were so highly priced they would never sell in any number in Australia.

Probably wouldnt sell many in Australia, looking at the two public chargers around Donnybrook,Collie 200 klm south of Perth, both seem to be out of service, so does kind of highlight my comment about infrastructure.
Doesnt fit with the narrative I know, but people heading down there with a standard range E.V will be paying a bit for a tilt bed truck to take them to a charge point that actually works. Lack of infrastructure will hold back the roll out, especially if there is more EV's than the infrastructure can cope with, once pictures of pizzed of people queuing to get to chargers, or on the back of trucks due to broken or insufficient chargers are on the t.v I dont think many will be rushing to buy one.
Just my opinion, which isnt worth much.

 

[Value Collector]

Mining and related refining of minerals... as long as we make the most of it by putting on an export tax and creating a sovereign wealth fund

The Mining companies already pay royalties on every tonnes they mine, plus they pay a company tax on any profit they make, they pay wages to workers who then pay income tax, GST, Fuel excise, alcohol tax etc, not to mention the whole communities that exist to support mines.

Many types of Agriculture.. As long as it doesn't get hit by climate change/natural disasters, tariffs and other protection methods

All industries have their risks

Value adding to agriculture (grapes into wine, soy beans into soy sauce etc).. why hasn't it already been done ?

What are you talking about, we already export heaps of Wine, Soy sauce, Honey, breakfast cereal, biscuits, fruit juice, packaged rice and many many many other value added ag products.

Energy (both fossil and renewables in the future).. some possibilities but fossil fuels are getting harder to find

Not really, we have hundreds or years of coal, and over a hundred years of natural gas, and unlimited opportunities in the renewable space.

Education.. look after our own first

we do both

Pharmaceuticals and health care.. pharma ? dominated by foreign companies

There are huge health care companies listed on the ASX, take CSL for example it is one of our home grown businesses and it operates here and around the world, also some of these foreign companies manufacture here, which creates Australian jobs, I thought thats what you like?

But if you think the foreign companies are dominating, by some shares in them and spend the profits at you local cafe.

Forestry products.. sell that to the Greenies

We already export heaps of farmed forestry products, $800 Million of logs were send to china last year, not to mention pulp and paper products, the greenies love sustainable logging these days, helps with carbon capture.

 

[Value Collector]

Probably wouldnt sell many in Australia, looking at the two public chargers around Donnybrook,Collie 200 klm south of Perth, both seem to be out of service, so does kind of highlight my comment about infrastructure.
Doesnt fit with the narrative I know, but people heading down there with a standard range E.V will be paying a bit for a tilt bed truck to take them to a charge point that actually works. Lack of infrastructure will hold back the roll out, especially if there is more EV's than the infrastructure can cope with, once pictures of pizzed of people queuing to get to chargers, or on the back of trucks due to broken or insufficient chargers are on the t.v I dont think many will be rushing to buy one.
Just my opinion, which isnt worth much.

I think that problem pops up when incentives go to charging infrastructure.

Incentives get given to build chargers where there isn't market demand for them, so they sit unused and rot without the owner having any incentive to go and fix them, because they make no money because no one uses them.

If instead the focus was on putting more EV's on the road, the chargers that are in the right places get used alot more, they become profitable, and people want to build more of them.

I personally on all my travels have never seen an out of order Tesla charger, (of course they would break some times I am sure, but Tesla makes a profit from them, so would rush out and fix it)

However there are heaps of still born chargers out there that I have never seen anyone use because they are in the wrong places, I am not sure if those companies will fix them as fast as Tesla, especially if they only installed them to get the one off incentive from the government, and there aren't enough EV's to make the charging station profitable long term.

 

[sptrawler]

I guess Im wasting my time and McGowan is wasting our money then.
Funnily enough it was a Tesla owner who said he was gratefull Muja power station had a charger, or he would have been in manure.
Then again, as long as Sydney/ Melbourne is well serviced, that is Australia done.

 

[sptrawler]

Those are the Tesla chargers, there are more RAC/Charge fox ones, but as I said many aren't working and aren't maintained. The only E.V's that will be bought in W.A, will be ones in the city, price isn't the issue, in W.A people spend mega bucks on vehicles. It's a big State people do long distances, the charging infrastructure will have to arrive before anyone in the country will buy one.
But City people in Sydney/ Melbourne wont understand that, they don't have a problem.
@Value Collector check how tour Tesla will go from Port Augusta to Norseman, Perth to Norseman, Norseman to Perth via Esperance, Perth to Carnarvon, or Carnarvon to Kununurra, Port Headland to Perth via Meekatharra.
Like I said until the infrastructure is in, people who travel those areas, or who want to travel those areas wont bother with E.V's
So really in W.A, as I said, the only people who will seriously consider an E.V will be those who don't want to travel any further than a battery distance until the infrastructure improves.
By the way the State Government has already committed to upgrading the infrastructure, as have most States, so really the fact that you don't think it needs subsidising is a moot point, it is being subsidised as I posted in #5149 on page 258 of this thread.

 

[Value Collector]

Those are the Tesla chargers, there are more RAC/Charge fox ones, but as I said many aren't working and aren't maintained. The only E.V's that will be bought in W.A, will be ones in the city, price isn't the issue, in W.A people spend mega bucks on vehicles. It's a big State people do long distances, the charging infrastructure will have to arrive before anyone in the country will buy one.
But City people in Sydney/ Melbourne wont understand that, they don't have a problem.
@Value Collector check how tour Tesla will go from Port Augusta to Norseman, Perth to Norseman, Norseman to Perth via Esperance, Perth to Carnarvon, or Carnarvon to Kununurra, Port Headland to Perth via Meekatharra.
Like I said until the infrastructure is in, people who travel those areas, or who want to travel those areas wont bother with E.V's
So really in W.A, as I said, the only people who will seriously consider an E.V will be those who don't want to travel any further than a battery distance until the infrastructure improves.
By the way the State Government has already committed to upgrading the infrastructure, as have most States, so really the fact that you don't think it needs subsidising is a moot point, it is being subsidised as I posted in #5149 on page 258 of this thread.

The bulk of Ev’s (actually the bulk of cars in general) will always be in cities.

what that means for the charging network is the chargers that get used the most will be around and between the major cities, then as the number of evs on the roads grow, so will the number of chargers, Pretty much exactly they way petrol stations expanded.

of course Tesla is going to focus on filling in the most popular routes first around and between the largest cities, but their super chargers make a decent amount of money, so as demand grows they will fill it.

Ev’s will build up in Perth, and proper charging infrastructure will grow along with it.

As I have said before though, you should never expect there to be as many Ev chargers as there are petrol stations, because you just don’t need that many ev chargers, you need them along long distance routes, and a few around the city, but most people charge at home.

 

[Value Collector]

I guess Im wasting my time and McGowan is wasting our money then.
Funnily enough it was a Tesla owner who said he was gratefull Muja power station had a charger, or he would have been in manure.
Then again, as long as Sydney/ Melbourne is well serviced, that is Australia done.
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Check out a website called “a better route planner” it will along you to select which model of ev you have and select destinations and will plan a route for you using the available chargers.

There are quite a few chargers around WA already, it will probably be able to get you where ever you need to go.

 

[sptrawler]

All I was saying is it makes sense for the Government to subsidise charging infrastructure, before they consider any subsidy for EVs, as encouraging the up take before adequate infrastructure is in place would be counter productive.
As can be seen by my earlier post, that is the way the government's are going, I was only commenting that it makes perfect sense.
You wouldn't have bought a Tesla, unless the infrastructure was there, well I don't think you would have.
Most purchasers of family cars are buying small to medium SUVs, the MG EV is competitively priced, yet it isn't a high volume seller in that market, giving a incentive I don't feel at this point will make much difference.
If there are an extra 1000 charge points in NSW, I think that will make a !amor difference, obviously we can have differing ideas that is the good thing about discussions.

 

[Value Collector]

All I was saying is it makes sense for the Government to subsidise charging infrastructure, before they consider any subsidy for EVs, as encouraging the up take before adequate infrastructure is in place would be counter productive.
As can be seen by my earlier post, that is the way the government's are going, I was only commenting that it makes perfect sense.

I hear you, but my opinion is that neither need subsidy, the market will look after itself, and I think I would prefer it that way.

My position is just to let things be, don’t subsidise, but don’t add extra taxes.

 

[sptrawler]

Check out a website called “a better route planner” it will along you to select which model of ev you have and select destinations and will plan a route for you using the available chargers.

There are quite a few chargers around WA already, it will probably be able to get you where ever you need to go.

I've already explained in the earlier post, two towns which are 200 KLM from Perth, but only about 30 KLM apart have faulty chargers, the next charger could be 60 KLM away, many EVs couldn't cope with that situation.
We are talking 200klm south of Perth, not way down in the SW.

 

[sptrawler]

I hear you, but my opinion is that neither need subsidy, the market will look after itself, and I think I would prefer it that way.

My position is just to let things be, don’t subsidise, but don’t add extra taxes.

I agree I'm not fond of subsidise but, as with power distribution and telecommunications, vast areas with low population densities have to be subsidised, not with the purchase of equipment but with being able to effectively use the equipment.
That is why Telstra has a government grant to provide services to Country areas of Australia.
The market won't look after areas where there isn't an adequate rate of return. Australia has large areas that suffer from that issue.

 

[Smurf1976]

Funnily enough it was a Tesla owner who said he was gratefull Muja power station had a charger, or he would have been in manure.

Muja PS has a charger?

Well I've learned something today.

Incidentally that's bringing back a clear image in my mind of finding a running clothes dryer sitting on the ground plugged into a power point near the BBQ outside Tungatinah PS (Tas). Had to take a second look to check I wasn't seeing things....

It belonged to a tourist with a campervan. All good, no harm done just drying the washing. I guess that's the ultimate in camping generators really, an actual power station. The BBQ's publicly accessible beside the road so they weren't doing anything wrong, just looked odd.

Now if they had, say, a 100kWh battery pack for the campervan well that not only moves the van but would dry a lot of washing too.

 

[SirRumpole]

There are huge health care companies listed on the ASX, take CSL for example it is one of our home grown businesses and it operates here and around the world, also some of these foreign companies manufacture here, which creates Australian jobs, I thought thats what you like?

Has it escaped your notice that CSL was originally a government organisation that was later privatised, and talking about financial services, so was the Commonwealth Bank, and in tourism so was Qantas.

I'm saying we now need the same sort of public investment in manufacturing to get these industries started and later on if necessary they could be privatised or flogged off to our mates in China if you like.

 

[JohnDe]

Has it escaped your notice that CSL was originally a government organisation that was later privatised, and talking about financial services, so was the Commonwealth Bank, and in tourism so wa
I'm saying we now need the same sort of public investment in manufacturing to get these industries started and later on if necessary they could be privatised or flogged off to our mates in China if you like.

Has it escaped your notice that CSL was originally a government organisation that was later privatised, and talking about financial services, so was the Commonwealth Bank, and in tourism so was Qantas.

I always thought that Qantas started life as a private business

Qantas - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org