Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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Smurf1976 said:
Road safety is one of the relatively few things where I'm actually in favour of government intervention in markets.

The roads have ended up an "arms race" of ever larger vehicles to the point that even someone with zero need for anything other than passenger transport feels the need to drive a monster truck just for their own safety.

I doubt my comments will be popular but it's one of the few areas where government intervention is warranted in my view. Otherwise, well we're going to end up with everyone driving an actual truck just to go to the shops.
Click to expand...
Some of these things are a pain to park. These yank Ute's are ridiculously large
 
Smurf1976 said:
Road safety is one of the relatively few things where I'm actually in favour of government intervention in markets.

The roads have ended up an "arms race" of ever larger vehicles to the point that even someone with zero need for anything other than passenger transport feels the need to drive a monster truck just for their own safety.

I doubt my comments will be popular but it's one of the few areas where government intervention is warranted in my view. Otherwise, well we're going to end up with everyone driving an actual truck just to go to the shops.
Click to expand...
What do you propose?

Bigger vehicles are only worse when they hit a smaller one. They're way, way, WAY more survivable in single vehicle accidents.

A whole fleet of bigger cars would actually be way safer than a fleet of smaller ones.
 
over9k said:
A whole fleet of bigger cars would actually be way safer than a fleet of smaller ones.
Click to expand...
Not for pedestrians, road workers, anyone on two wheels, people in buildings that are run into and anyone else not in a comparably large vehicle they're not.

There's also the economic impact. If everyone needs a great big car just for their own safety well that's a huge economic cost. All that money going on imported cars that could otherwise go into the local economy.

It just seems all rather wasteful to me.

If I double the size of my car well then now I'm safer, since odds are the car I run into will be smaller than mine.

You see that danger and so you double the size of your car.

Now I need an even bigger car to keep myself safe from your larger car. Physics.

End result is lots of resources used to protect against the threat caused by using lots of resources. Same as any arms race.

All seems a bit pointless with the downside of economic cost, environmental impact, amenity and the threat to those not in any car. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
Not for pedestrians, road workers, anyone on two wheels, people in buildings that are run into and anyone else not in a comparably large vehicle they're not.

There's also the economic impact. If everyone needs a great big car just for their own safety well that's a huge economic cost. All that money going on imported cars that could otherwise go into the local economy.

It just seems all rather wasteful to me.

If I double the size of my car well then now I'm safer, since odds are the car I run into will be smaller than mine.

You see that danger and so you double the size of your car.

Now I need an even bigger car to keep myself safe from your larger car. Physics.

End result is lots of resources used to protect against the threat caused by using lots of resources. Same as any arms race.

All seems a bit pointless with the downside of economic cost, environmental impact, amenity and the threat to those not in any car. :2twocents
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how a road worker/pedestrian hit by a subaru forester is going to be in any better shape than someone hit by a ford ranger?

I understand your point about an arms race when running into other vehicles, but you're forgetting about running into stuff. I'd much rather smash into a telephone pole in a ford F-truck than a suzuki swift for example.
 
Smurf1976 said:
Not for pedestrians, road workers, anyone on two wheels, people in buildings that are run into and anyone else not in a comparably large vehicle they're not.

There's also the economic impact. If everyone needs a great big car just for their own safety well that's a huge economic cost. All that money going on imported cars that could otherwise go into the local economy.

It just seems all rather wasteful to me.

If I double the size of my car well then now I'm safer, since odds are the car I run into will be smaller than mine.

You see that danger and so you double the size of your car.

Now I need an even bigger car to keep myself safe from your larger car. Physics.

End result is lots of resources used to protect against the threat caused by using lots of resources. Same as any arms race.

All seems a bit pointless with the downside of economic cost, environmental impact, amenity and the threat to those not in any car. :2twocents
Click to expand...
Some people have too much money here.my own ute now looks like a midget vs these US trucks but it uses 8l per 100km.
These giants are gas guzzlers,often not on diesel.(Gretas now joyful)
But gasoline as they say in the US cost here per litre what it costs per gallon in the US.. well not really but not far from 50% cheaper there especially if you look at cheapest states ..NOT California or NY
We have some overpaid people here...
 
sptrawler said:
Mate give it away, it is but a blip on history, a short but financially advantageous blip, stop discouraging the blip, ride the blip. :whistling:

The blip will happen despite you. ?
Click to expand...
I wonder how hard it would be to convert a normal ice vehicle to ammonia.is it possible? Diesel style or spark ignition?
Even mixing gas or diesel?
That would be the ultimate option.
Tech possible forvpower plants i am sure but car and or trucks? Green or not, and no need for rare earth lithium etc
 
By the way on the EV issue, I have a couple of EV scooters, the Segway ninebot es4 scooter main battery which is in the stem has failed.
That has happened after 3 years, the problem is I can't get a replacement battery, Segway Australia don't want to know and no scooter sellers are interested.
So I thought I'll try on AliExpress, well that was interesting, bought a battery that the seller said would be sent DHL, it wasn't, it didn't arrive.
So open a dispute with Alliexpress and the seller posts up a delivery notice to the Netherlands, as evidence that it was received in Australia, I explained the scam to AliExpress but they just gave the money to the seller anyway.
So lesson learnt, only buy off Alliexpress what you are prepared to lose.lol
 
sptrawler said:
A Toyota Mirai, travels 1360klm on a tank of H2 gas (5.65kg)

www.drive.com.au

World record: Toyota Mirai travels 1360km on one hydrogen tank

The Japanese sedan travelled the equivalent distance of Melbourne to Brisbane on just 5.65kg of fuel.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
Click to expand...

You would need that range because there is no refilling stations for hydrogen between Sydney and Adelaide, hahaha.

Good effort for the driver though, he must have been driving super slow with no aircon or brakes to make that distance, that’s only 240kms short of the record for a battery electric.
 
sptrawler said:
A Toyota Mirai, travels 1360klm on a tank of H2 gas (5.65kg)

www.drive.com.au

World record: Toyota Mirai travels 1360km on one hydrogen tank

The Japanese sedan travelled the equivalent distance of Melbourne to Brisbane on just 5.65kg of fuel.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
Click to expand...
Is that real?..i had the feeling H2 energy density was pretty low..even compressed..will check
I quote
Hydrogen at 50 atmospheres pressure provides about 0.13 kilowatt-hours per litre, and liquid hydrogen provides 2.36 kilowatt-hours per litre. (Petrol or oil provide about 10 kilowatt-hours per litre.)
 
qldfrog said:
Is that real?..i had the feeling H2 energy density was pretty low..even compressed..will check
I quote
Hydrogen at 50 atmospheres pressure provides about 0.13 kilowatt-hours per litre, and liquid hydrogen provides 2.36 kilowatt-hours per litre. (Petrol or oil provide about 10 kilowatt-hours per litre.)
Click to expand...
So i seriously doubt you get 6kg hydrogen for 1360km which would be equivalent to 1.5kg oil....
 
qldfrog said:
So i seriously doubt you get 6kg hydrogen for 1360km which would be equivalent to 1.5kg oil....
Click to expand...
And then i read
On a mass basis, hydrogen has nearly three times the energy content of gasoline—120 MJ/kg for hydrogen versus 44 MJ/kg for gasoline.
So that would mean 6kg hydrigen comparable to 18l of gasoline?

I assume this is all compared to compression level.
But even the above 18l of petrol for more than a 1000km???
 
Electrification of old cars has goner mainstream
from ABC NEWS
"There's a lot of people out there who love their classic cars, but don't want the issues of internal combustion engines," he says.

"Old cars look beautiful and new cars all look the same."
From suburban garages to professional workshops, Australians are popping car bonnets and stripping out petrol and diesel motors, fuel tanks and gear boxes, mufflers and exhausts.

In place of these greasy, soot-stained parts, they're installing banks of lithium-ion batteries and small, but powerful, electric motors.


Australians want to buy electric cars, but car makers say government policy blocks supply.

Though not cheap, EV conversion, or "electro modding", is booming in popularity.

Often, it's a way of breathing new life into beloved older models — a way of having a classic car without the fumes and breakdowns.

Some hope this change is just the start: they look forward to a time when conversions can be done cheaply and at mass scale. They believe that at least some of the petrol cars being sold today may see out their time on the road as converted electric ones.
Click to expand...
One of the people quoted is the guy I have ordered my conversion kit from.
I am now concerned that he will be inundated with enquiries, and my order (awaiting the batteries), will be pushed back even further.
There is one quote in the above I would take issue with.
Australians want to buy electric cars, but car makers say government policy blocks supply.
I would not argue with the concept of Australians wanting electric cars, but to try to pretend its governmant inaction is plain crap.
Its the sheer cost of them.
Most of them fall into the luxury car market.
Unless you can justify them as a salary sacrifice or fully expensed company car, the idea of tying up 60 grans plus in a car is well beyond the means of mr and mrs Average.
My wife's Mazda Cx5 is coming up for replacement early next year.
I tried to steer her towards the idea of replacing it with an EV, but she baulked at the cost of a similar sized vehicle to the CX5.
She got out of a Suburu outback for the mazda, so wants AWD, with a comfy long distance interior (she travels about 30k per year).
The ones she might have considered, the Hyundai Kona or Kia Niro are both too small for what she wants.
The Nissan leaf and the Hyundai Ioniq are even smaller.
The others, Teslas, Jags, Mercs, Audis Porsche's etc are priced well above what she wants to spend.
Until you can buy a mid sized electric for slightly more thean the ICE version, peoples pockets will rule.
Mick
 
That ABC story is very good. The really interesting ideas were towards the end.

Some hope this change is just the start: they look forward to a time when conversions can be done cheaply and at mass scale. They believe that at least some of the petrol cars being sold today may see out their time on the road as converted electric ones.

As they pointed out with the move to rapid decarbonisation and the inherent cheapness and cleanness of electric transport many ICE vehicles will lose value rapidly in the next few years. So, if batteries drop in price as quickly as expected, then relatively cheap turn key conversions may indeed become quite practical.

I remember earlier this year there is an engineer who is developing a business model to electrify current interstate truck fleets. Becasue of the high mileages the economics are very good.
 
basilio said:
That ABC story is very good. The really interesting ideas were towards the end.

Some hope this change is just the start: they look forward to a time when conversions can be done cheaply and at mass scale. They believe that at least some of the petrol cars being sold today may see out their time on the road as converted electric ones.

As they pointed out with the move to rapid decarbonisation and the inherent cheapness and cleanness of electric transport many ICE vehicles will lose value rapidly in the next few years. So, if batteries drop in price as quickly as expected, then relatively cheap turn key conversions may indeed become quite practical.

I remember earlier this year there is an engineer who is developing a business model to electrify current interstate truck fleets. Because of the high mileages the economics are very good.
Click to expand...
Sorry to dissappoint you BAS, but that is unrealistic.
As the article pointed out, most of the newer cars are just not capable of conversion.
Older cars that were built as body on chassis before the monocoque bodies came in are far easier to adapt.
Plus all the computers in them controlling everything from autostart /stop, emission controls, power steering, ABS brakes, adaptive cruise control etc will need to be updated or taken out.
The interstate truck fleets may be an option because once again they are usually a ladder frame chassis and engine with the cab stuck on as an afterthought. But as with all the other options, the biggest problem will be quick charging a battery pack that may be fifteen times larger than that of a Tesla.
Mick
 
I can understand why an older car is easier to electrify than a more modern one in terms of computers ect.

Having said that I could also see how some clever mechanics /engineers could devise a way of resolving these issues that could be a turn key solution for many more cars of that type. The "holy grail" solution is a 10-15k changeover.

However I can also see a number of car owners who love the look and feel of their Merc or Lexus or Cressida and would be prepared to pay a decent amount for essentially a new car experience in their comfortable old beast.

www.theguardian.com

Swap and go: electric trucks to run between Sydney and Brisbane using exchangeable batteries

Batteries can be swapped in three minutes, removing the need for trucks to plug in and charge
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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