Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

They really aren't trades though.

The maintenance schedule on a BEV, will be a lot less than that required for ICE vehicles, not only will the number of workers required diminish the amount of spin off work will reduce hugely e.g exhaust shops, radiator repair shops

Yep, just like a dozens of industries before it the vehicle maintenance industry will diminish in size, and the dollars consumers would normally direct towards it will be spent else where, creating jobs and capital investment opportunities.

80% of people used to be employed in agriculture, now 1% is and we all live better because those 79% of the work that was freed up by the introduction of farming tech can now be employed in other industries.

 

[Value Collector]

Why is Boris Johnson still riding around in a petrol powered Jaguar instead of a Tesla ?

British pride, maybe he should get the EV Jag.

 

[over9k]

So far as classic cars are concerned, it won't matter either way.

There's just not enough of them, being driven enough km, to matter.

Just as it doesn't matter that there's the odd random tourist steam train still running (using coal or heavy fuel oil) and stuff like that. Just not enough to be a problem worth worrying about.

Same with two stroke lawnmowers and so on, anyone suggesting something needs to be done to stop the use of those already built could fairly be accused of virtue signaling as there's just not going to be enough of them left by the time anyone could ban them to be worth doing so. It's also a huge waste of materials to be throwing away otherwise still usable equipment so it doesn't even stack up environmentally.

If someone in the year 2050 has a running 1975 Kingswood and a Victa 2 stroke mower then no problem since neither will be even slightly common at that point. Both will be seen as a novelty far more than a problem.

Exactly. Same as old cars now. This is a total non-discussion.

 

[SirRumpole]

At some point going forward I fully expect that ICE cars will be much like CRT TV's or VHS tapes. Not banned but simply not wanted anymore by anyone apart from a few with a genuine interest in restoring and preserving old technology as a hobby.

And as investments.

Do you know much a Ford Falcon GTHO Phase III is worth ?

Try over $1,000,000.

 

[sptrawler]

And as investments.

Do you know much a Ford Falcon GTHO Phase III is worth ?

Try over $1,000,000.

The problem with old collectable cars is they are very generation specific, so not only will the classic cars that our generation loved drop in value as we age, they will become increasingly uninteresting to the younger generation who will be more into "connected" BEV's.
Just my opinion.

Is the classic car market tanking?

We investigate whether the bubble has burst on classic car investments

www.whichcar.com.au

 

[over9k]

Yeah but think about what's going to be a classic in the future.

R34 GT-R's are an excellent example - they've doubled in price just in the past few years. I can only imagine what a clean V-spec is going to be worth in 2030 or 2040.

 

[SirRumpole]

The problem with old collectable cars is they are very generation specific, so not only will the classic cars that our generation loved drop in value as we age, they will become increasingly uninteresting to the younger generation who will be more into "connected" BEV's.
Just my opinion.

Is the classic car market tanking?

We investigate whether the bubble has burst on classic car investments

www.whichcar.com.au

You don't need to be interested in art to buy a painting as an investment, same with any collectable, if it goes up in value over time people will be interested.

I'm not saying your standard 1995 Commodore will be worth keeping but anything with low model runs or something quirky about them will be worth holding on to.

 

[basilio]

The problem with old collectable cars is they are very generation specific, so not only will the classic cars that our generation loved drop in value as we age, they will become increasingly uninteresting to the younger generation who will be more into "connected" BEV's.
Just my opinion.

Is the classic car market tanking?

We investigate whether the bubble has burst on classic car investments

www.whichcar.com.au

Your observation and the article you posted was very insightful. Long story short the article was about the softening of classic cars as purely investment opportunities. Essentially people believing that if they pick up a genuine GTHO (or similar ) for 500k this year and garage it carefully, it will be worth $1m k in a few years time basically tax free. How long that continues is questionable. Those will long memories will recall the philatelic investment bubble of the seventies and eighties.

Its obviously true that from an emissions POV classic cars put out bugger all because
1) There are very few of them
2) They spend almost all their lives in climate controlled garages
In fact almost all their emissions will be from maintenance activities !

From what I can see there is a significant market in restoration and mechanical/technological upgrades of classic cars like Jags. I could see this trend spreading to older Mercs as well perhaps? To date the updates have been around electricals, heating/cooling, better gearboxes, upgraded brakes and handling, quality sound systems. These are all discreetly integrated into an immaculately restored body that is effectively a bespoke 21st Century car in a 20th century shell.

At what stage this upgrade goes electric is interesting. The cost of these vehicles would parallel the new cost of a current luxury car. But after all that is exactly what it is.

Jaguar E-Type upgrades: how E-Type UK transforms British icon into capable modern driver | Automotive World

One of the most iconic and beautiful cars of all time, the Jaguar E-Type is a hugely desirable model for classic vehicle enthusiasts and lovers of the

www.automotiveworld.com

British firm converts old Jaguars and Rolls-Royces to electric power

The British startup Lunaz Design will soon offer EV conversions for the 1953 Jaguar KX120 and 1961 Rolls-Royce Phantom V.

www.motorauthority.com

These companies will convert your classic into an EV

Combine style and gasoline-free motoring with one of these professionally swapped electrics

driving.ca

Why This Electric Rolls-Royce Phantom V By Lunaz Is The New Age Of Post-Opulence Luxury

Rolls-Royce by Lunaz is a collection of 1961 Rolls-Royce Phantom V and Silver Cloud cars, re-engineered for zero-emission battery-electric drive and restored with sustainable luxury materials

www.forbes.com

 

[basilio]

I think this concept is what 'rich old guys" might get excited about when it comes to remembering their youth and the classic cars they dreamed about.

The Story Behind Icon And Its Unique Retro-Modernist Design Approach

With retro-modernist cars having quite a renaissance, I catch up with Icon 4x4 founder Jonathan Ward to learn more about the Los Angeles firm's unique approach to preserving the soul of classic cars

www.forbes.com

Lunaz EV converts a classic '62 S2 Bentley Continental

Lunaz has used its electric conversion and restoration skills again

www.carmagazine.co.uk

 

[basilio]

Last post. Just for those interested in upgrading their venerable old British banger..

KWE offers full or part restoration, renewal or upgrading of your own XJS, Aston Martin DB7 or Jaguar/Daimler XJ Series 1/2/3

KWE offers full or part restoration, renewal or upgrading of your own XJS, Aston Martin DB7 or Jaguar/Daimler XJ Series 1/2/3

www.kwecars.com

 

[sptrawler]

Back on thread, a company based in Israel, have developed an XFC (extreme fast charging battery), which has the potential to reduce BEV charging times to 5 minutes.

StoreDot One Step Closer to Eliminating EV Charging & Range Anxiety with Launch of First Ever '5-Minute Charge' Li-ion Battery Samples

StoreDot, the pioneer of extreme fast charging (XFC) battery technology, today announces the availability of its first-generation 5-minute charge battery engineering samples. This represents a significant milestone for the company in its mission to eliminate the range and charging anxiety of...

finance.yahoo.com

From the article:

Milestone announcement proves the commercial viability of StoreDot's extreme fast charging battery technology utilizing nano-scale metalloids and proprietary compounds

- Sample availability provides major proof point of StoreDot's ability to scale its technology within existing lithium-ion (Li-ion) battery manufacturing lines for mass production

- Launch paves the way for the introduction of StoreDot's second-generation, silicon-dominant prototype battery for electric vehicles later this year

 

[Value Collector]

You don't need to be interested in art to buy a painting as an investment, same with any collectable, if it goes up in value over time people will be interested.

There still have to be a large number of people with a genuine interest in the collectible willing to pay a high price for it, other wise the speculator won’t be able to sell it when he was to cash in his investment.

If it turns out all the “investors” buying a collectable are just speculators wanting to make money, then it is just a bubble that will pop eventually.

 

[Value Collector]

Your observation and the article you posted was very insightful. Long story short the article was about the softening of classic cars as purely investment opportunities. Essentially people believing that if they pick up a genuine GTHO (or similar ) for 500k this year and garage it carefully, it will be worth $1m k in a few years time basically tax free. How long that continues is questionable. Those will long memories will recall the philatelic investment bubble of the seventies and eighties.

Its obviously true that from an emissions POV classic cars put out bugger all because
1) There are very few of them
2) They spend almost all their lives in climate controlled garages
In fact almost all their emissions will be from maintenance activities !

From what I can see there is a significant market in restoration and mechanical/technological upgrades of classic cars like Jags. I could see this trend spreading to older Mercs as well perhaps? To date the updates have been around electricals, heating/cooling, better gearboxes, upgraded brakes and handling, quality sound systems. These are all discreetly integrated into an immaculately restored body that is effectively a bespoke 21st Century car in a 20th century shell.

At what stage this upgrade goes electric is interesting. The cost of these vehicles would parallel the new cost of a current luxury car. But after all that is exactly what it is.

Jaguar E-Type upgrades: how E-Type UK transforms British icon into capable modern driver | Automotive World

One of the most iconic and beautiful cars of all time, the Jaguar E-Type is a hugely desirable model for classic vehicle enthusiasts and lovers of the

www.automotiveworld.com

British firm converts old Jaguars and Rolls-Royces to electric power

The British startup Lunaz Design will soon offer EV conversions for the 1953 Jaguar KX120 and 1961 Rolls-Royce Phantom V.

www.motorauthority.com

These companies will convert your classic into an EV

Combine style and gasoline-free motoring with one of these professionally swapped electrics

driving.ca

Why This Electric Rolls-Royce Phantom V By Lunaz Is The New Age Of Post-Opulence Luxury

Rolls-Royce by Lunaz is a collection of 1961 Rolls-Royce Phantom V and Silver Cloud cars, re-engineered for zero-emission battery-electric drive and restored with sustainable luxury materials

www.forbes.com

yeah, there is no problem with having a classic cars on the roads for Sunday drives, little pieces of living history are great foreveryone that sees them, but let’s work towards getting the millions of daily drives onto cleaner tech.

——————

As a kid (and probably now too) I loved seeing a vintage steam engine train roll through town billowing smoke and steam as the pistons cycle all the mechanics and drove the wheels, and I loved visiting the old steam power lumber mill that the local historical society fired up once a month,with is huge flywheel turning driving all the equipment, it’s a great history lesson and really sets your imagination on fire.

 

[basilio]

Back on thread, a company based in Israel, have developed an XFC (extreme fast charging battery), which has the potential to reduce BEV charging times to 5 minutes.

StoreDot One Step Closer to Eliminating EV Charging & Range Anxiety with Launch of First Ever '5-Minute Charge' Li-ion Battery Samples

StoreDot, the pioneer of extreme fast charging (XFC) battery technology, today announces the availability of its first-generation 5-minute charge battery engineering samples. This represents a significant milestone for the company in its mission to eliminate the range and charging anxiety of...

finance.yahoo.com

From the article:

Milestone announcement proves the commercial viability of StoreDot's extreme fast charging battery technology utilizing nano-scale metalloids and proprietary compounds

- Sample availability provides major proof point of StoreDot's ability to scale its technology within existing lithium-ion (Li-ion) battery manufacturing lines for mass production

- Launch paves the way for the introduction of StoreDot's second-generation, silicon-dominant prototype battery for electric vehicles later this year

Yes good story indeed. I read it in more detail on another site and it seems it's widespread commercial availability will be around 2025. I suspect there will be other similar fast charging batteries also in production by the. Talga proved similar results with its Talga X anode in 2018 and is developing it commercially.

We are on-track to launch samples of our EV batteries by the end of 2021, with full commercialisation of the technology expected in 2024-25. For the first couple of years we are most likely going to have to add 10-15 per cent to price. Over time as we scale, we should hit the same costs and the same cost curve reduction as we’ve seen with today’s EV batteries, because the supply chain should improve.

Global Railway Review

Global Railway Review provides news and business information for the world's railway industry: magazines, newsletter, directory, and on-line services.

www.intelligenttransport.com

Talga Resources : Anode Enables Ultra-Fast Charge Battery

ASX & Media Release 16 October 2018 ASX:TLG Talga Anode Enables Ultra-Fast Charge Battery ...

www.marketscreener.com

 

[SirRumpole]

As a kid (and probably now too) I loved seeing a vintage steam engine train roll through town billowing smoke and steam as the pistons cycle all the mechanics and drove the wheels, and I loved visiting the old steam power lumber mill that the local historical society fired up once a month,with is huge flywheel turning driving all the equipment, it’s a great history lesson and really sets your imagination on fire.

So you have just demonstrated that you don't have to have been involved in an era to be interested in its history and its artifacts and maybe even investing in objects from that era.

That will keep the investment industry in collectables alive.

 

[Value Collector]

So you have just demonstrated that you don't have to have been involved in an era to be interested in its history and its artifacts and maybe even investing in objects from that era.

That will keep the investment industry in collectables alive.

Offcourse not, I am sure some guys still are fascinated by model T fords.

But, I do think Sp is correct and that a lot of demand for collector cars comes from older guys that are now rich enough to afford that car they wanted when they 18, and so a lot of the demand will die off with that generation.

some demand will still exist, but will it be enough to push the sale prices to ever higher highs? I don’t know, and I personally would play that game.

I am happy enough to watch these things drive past, without buying, Maintaining and insuring them myself.

 

[SirRumpole]

some demand will still exist, but will it be enough to push the sale prices to ever higher highs? I don’t know, and I personally would play that game.

No it won't, but that's just another example of greed and overreach in any investment, whether it is shares, property, commodities or collectibles. There are regular booms and busts in any area , shakeouts happen and the market settles down to what people are willing to pay at the current point in time.

Winners and losers as there always have been.

Incidentally, you don't have to actually drive classic cars, a lot of people just lock them up in a shed for years or rent them to a museum and just give them a clean up when they want to sell.

 

[SirRumpole]

There still have to be a large number of people with a genuine interest in the collectible willing to pay a high price for it

Not necessarily, just a small number of very rich people who want to get one up on the rest.

Anyway, we are getting a bit off topic, there is already a thread for collectibles.

 

[Value Collector]

No it won't, but that's just another example of greed and overreach in any investment, whether it is shares, property, commodities or collectibles. There are regular booms and busts in any area , shakeouts happen and the market settles down to what people are willing to pay at the current point in time.

Winners and losers as there always have been.

the difference between collectables and other stuff like shares and property, is that with collectables you rely on another person to buy it from you to generate your return, and the thing hasn’t grown or multiplied, so you need the demand to grow, not stay the same or shrink.

but with shares and property the underlying assets themselves generate your return.

for example a family could have owned block of Coca-Cola shares, or an apartment building in London etc for 100 years and never sold it and not plan on selling it in the next 100 years but it will generate investment income, because the assets themselves are generating the return.

where as collectables are fickle, they cost money to own, and you have to hope they is someone willing to buy it when you eventually need to buy bread, I don’t class these things as investments, and they are speculation.

not that there is anything wrong with speculation, it’s just a different thing to investing.

 

[Value Collector]

Not necessarily, just a small number of very rich people who want to get one up on the rest.

When all the boomers are dead and dying and their family and selling their stuff, you have to have an equal number of rich youngsters willing and able to soak up the supply, a rich might want one 1971 falcon, but he probably doesn’t want 10.